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Cherry: moving from oil-based to waterborne poly

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Forum topic by CharlesA posted 03-11-2016 10:26 PM 931 views 1 time favorited 13 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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CharlesA

3018 posts in 1257 days


03-11-2016 10:26 PM

Topic tags/keywords: cherry question

i use a lot of cherry and my favorite finish is satin Arm-R-Seal. I use it plain, and after a few months the cherry has darkened to a perfect color. It’s foolproof.

So . . . I’ve decided to fool with it. I’ve been using more General Finishes High Performance poly. I like it for two reasons: 1) now that I’ve learned to spray it, I can get a really nice finish in way less time. 2) Water-based clean-up is much more convenient in general.

I’ve been thinking of how to achieve the finish I get with Arm-R-Seal. I was wondering about using orange/amber shellac (i’d play with the tone) and then cover with the HP poly. I assume it will age and darken and come out long term the same way. Is that correct? Anyone else use waterborne poly that achieves the aged finish naturally.

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson


13 replies so far

View ChefHDAN's profile

ChefHDAN

805 posts in 2309 days


#1 posted 03-11-2016 11:15 PM

Charles, this table is 4 years old in this picture, coated with BLO and then sprayed with WB poly. I used the same process for an entertainment center I just finished and I’m going to try and watch it better to see how long the tone shift took.

At 4 years

When 1st finished

-- I've decided 1 mistake is really 2 opportunities to learn.. learn how to fix it... and learn how to not repeat it

View bkseitz's profile

bkseitz

294 posts in 770 days


#2 posted 03-11-2016 11:20 PM

That is a beautiful a beautify table. Love the inlay border

-- bkseitz, Washington "if everything is going well, you've obviously overlooked something"

View Clint Searl's profile

Clint Searl

1533 posts in 1821 days


#3 posted 03-12-2016 01:48 AM

You don’t need no stinkin’ under-finish, especially BLO. Start with a 20% thinned coat of the waterborne, smoothed back to 220, followed by as many straight coats to get the build wanted. The cherry will darken naturally.

-- Clint Searl....Ya can no more do what ya don't know how than ya can git back from where ya ain't been

View CharlesA's profile

CharlesA

3018 posts in 1257 days


#4 posted 03-12-2016 01:52 AM

The reason I was considering shellac undercoat is because the one time I used straight waterborne on cherry ( on a lied I don’t have access to so I can’t see how it turned out after darkening), I didn’t like the pinkish cherry color. The arm-r-seal darkens it enough for me initially.

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

View Scott C.'s profile

Scott C.

149 posts in 1511 days


#5 posted 03-12-2016 01:59 AM

you might try messing with a water soluble dye added to the poly since your spraying. You’ll have to experiment but it’s a great way to warm up water white poly.

-- measure twice, cut once, swear and start over.

View bearkatwood's profile

bearkatwood

1194 posts in 472 days


#6 posted 03-12-2016 02:00 AM

The shellac would seal the grain and stop that fuzziness from the water based finish nicely I think as well. Sounds like a good combo Charles and you could use a tint to get the color shade you are hoping for. Hope it works out well.

-- Brian Noel

View CharlesA's profile

CharlesA

3018 posts in 1257 days


#7 posted 03-12-2016 02:50 AM


you might try messing with a water soluble dye added to the poly since your spraying. You ll have to experiment but it s a great way to warm up water white poly.

- Scott C.

I’ve experimented with dye in the poly a bit, but I was thinking that the shellac might give it a bit richer color.

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

View JimYoung's profile

JimYoung

224 posts in 1047 days


#8 posted 03-17-2016 04:21 PM

I’d be interested in knowing what you settled on. Also, what are you using to spray the poly, HVLP?

Thanks,

-- -Jim, "Society is well governed when its people obey the magistrates, and the magistrates obey the law." -- Solon

View Drew's profile

Drew

304 posts in 2560 days


#9 posted 03-17-2016 05:42 PM

Here are some samples I made a few years ago that might help.
Left to right.
Straight Arm R Seal
Danish oil with Arm R Seal top coat (tried and true Danish oil)
Straight waterborne poly with UV ( I believe it was Enduro poly)
Custom color- GF WB dye stains, 2pt Vintage cherry, 1pt Light brown. Enduro poly top coat

-- TruCraftFurniture.com

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

754 posts in 1455 days


#10 posted 03-17-2016 06:07 PM

I was going to suggest natural color danish oil. It brings the pink raw cherry to a light reddish brown. Let it dry 3 days, the water born over the top.

Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

View ClammyBallz's profile

ClammyBallz

309 posts in 596 days


#11 posted 03-17-2016 06:32 PM

This cherry cabinet was finished with two coats of garnet shellac and then 2 coats of EM8000.

View CharlesA's profile

CharlesA

3018 posts in 1257 days


#12 posted 03-17-2016 07:21 PM

I’m on the road, so I don’t have a pic, but I did a sample board the other day, and I think I’m going to do one coat of sealcoat/super blonde with 3 coats of garnet shellac and then the waterborne poly, all sprayed.

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

1056 posts in 1449 days


#13 posted 03-18-2016 12:04 PM

For color only, adding dye (Trantint honey amber matches ob poly well) to the WB poly will do it, but the finish will be a bit lifeless. Shellac first will pop the grain like ob finishes, giving it some chatoyance – almost looks like a metallic paint in the light.

Sealcoat sometimes doesn’t play well with wb topcoats, so I always use flakes with them. I use blonde shellac and use Transtint to get whatever color I’m after. Don’t have to buy or inventory different colors of shellac.

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