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Forum topic by HapHazzard posted 03-11-2016 04:22 PM 1029 views 0 times favorited 18 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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HapHazzard

92 posts in 328 days


03-11-2016 04:22 PM

Topic tags/keywords: ash lathe sander turning sanding sharpening

I’ve been watching tutorials on the bedan and decided to try making one. It looked like about the simplest possible tool to make, and it probably is. I used a 3/8” x 8” square tool bit made from M2 HSS and a 12” piece of white ash for the handle. I turned the handle to match my Hurricane tools so it would look like part of the set. The blade is ground to a ~30° bevel. I did the rough grinding on a bench belt-disc sander and the final grind on a 10” wet stone grinder, so it has a 10”-radius hollow grind.

Here you can see the almost-finished handle in the chuck, the finished blade lying across the bed, and a Hurricane spindle gouge for comparison.

And here’s the almost finished product. I just need to give it a few coats of linseed oil and I’ll be ready to cut some wood.

-- Unix programmers never die; they just > /dev/null


18 replies so far

View Rick M's profile

Rick M

7907 posts in 1840 days


#1 posted 03-11-2016 05:40 PM

Nice. I’m anxious to hear your impressions after using it. How deep is the steel anchored in the handle?

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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TheDane

4997 posts in 3123 days


#2 posted 03-11-2016 07:51 PM

How did you bevel the sides?

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

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Wildwood

1882 posts in 1595 days


#3 posted 03-11-2016 08:32 PM

Did your 3/8” bedan cost less than this one including shipping?

https://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCBEDAN.html

Have a Sorby 3/8” bedan and love it, took awhile to learn to love it thou. I would like a ½” bedan but not sure want to buy one from only place can find in US! Not sure or don’t know if UK tool vendors make a ½” bedan. Got the ½” bug after seeing Francois Escoulan demonstrate it’s more than a skew & parting tool.

http://www.glaserhitec.com/shop/shopping/12-bedan/

Bottom line you did an outstanding job and good luck with your new tool.

-- Bill

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Nubsnstubs

826 posts in 1190 days


#4 posted 03-12-2016 03:12 AM

Wow, a 120 dollar difference in price from Penn State and Glaser. I guess I’ll just use a cut nail in a file handle and call it hi tech. Get the same results for a few cents.

BTW Hap, nice job on your home made tool. And like Gerry The Dane, how did you bevel the sides??? .... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson)

View LeeMills's profile

LeeMills

271 posts in 761 days


#5 posted 03-12-2016 02:33 PM

Nice job on the tool. Enjoy
On beveling the side, the French style is not beveled as shown here.
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=63557&cat=1,330,49233,43164

I have thought of making one as I already have the steel and handle but for those who have and use one, bevel up or down? Most show using it with the bevel up but a few show it with the bevel down. Using it bevel down I can round the bottom corners so that it doesn’t dig into the tool rest. Has anyone tried it both ways?

Widlwood, if you want to make one WTTools usually has the 1/2” HSS for $9 but right how they only have the 1/2” with 5% cobalt for $15 (8” long).
http://www.wttool.com/index/page/category/category_id/15882/

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

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HapHazzard

92 posts in 328 days


#6 posted 03-12-2016 04:48 PM


Nice. I m anxious to hear your impressions after using it. How deep is the steel anchored in the handle?

- Rick M.

Thanks. I’m anxious to use it. The blade is only about and inch and a half into the handle. I drilled a 2” deep hole for it, but after pressing the ferrule on I wasn’t able to drive it any deeper. If it loosens up with use, at least I know there’s room for it to go deeper.


How did you bevel the sides?

- TheDane

I assume you mean making the thinner on the side opposite the cutting edge? I also used the belt sander for this, though, honestly, I didn’t grind them enough that you can really see the taper. Frankly, I didn’t see the necessity for this after watching Escoulan use the tool, and grinding M2 over a large surface is really slow going and generates a lot of heat. If I’m wrong about the necessity I’ll just have to pull the blade and grind some more. Like any tool you make for yourself, it comes with a lifetime satisfaction guarantee from the manufacturer. ;-)

Speaking of those tapered sides, have you noticed how the descriptions all say, “sides that taper inward towards the bottom,” or words to that effect? When you consider how the bedan is used, they’ve got it upside-down.

-- Unix programmers never die; they just > /dev/null

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HapHazzard

92 posts in 328 days


#7 posted 03-12-2016 04:56 PM


Did your 3/8” bedan cost less than this one including shipping?

https://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCBEDAN.html

Not if I include my time, but it was, and will continue to be, a worthwhile learning experience.

Thanks very much for the encouragement!

-- Unix programmers never die; they just > /dev/null

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HapHazzard

92 posts in 328 days


#8 posted 03-12-2016 05:14 PM


Nice job on the tool. Enjoy
On beveling the side, the French style is not beveled as shown here.
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=63557&cat=1,330,49233,43164

I hadn’t seen that one, but after watching Escoulan I couldn’t see why the taper was necessary, so that totally makes sense.


I have thought of making one as I already have the steel and handle but for those who have and use one, bevel up or down? Most show using it with the bevel up but a few show it with the bevel down. Using it bevel down I can round the bottom corners so that it doesn t dig into the tool rest. Has anyone tried it both ways?

I’ve only seen it used bevel-up. It just seems even more likely to catch if it’s used the other way, but apparently not if people are actually using it that way.

I think you’ll find grinding those sides down to be an arduous process. You might want to try it á la Française first and only regrind it if you feel compelled to flip it over.


Widlwood, if you want to make one WTTools usually has the 1/2” HSS for $9 but right how they only have the 1/2” with 5% cobalt for $15 (8” long).
http://www.wttool.com/index/page/category/category_id/15882/

- LeeMills

Assuming they mean M2 with +5% cobalt, that’s basically AISI M35 HSS. M35 is harder and more wear-resistant than M2, but less so than M42. It’s probably worth the extra $6 in terms of holding an edge, but it would be a tougher grind. You’d really hate grinding the sides if you went with M35.

-- Unix programmers never die; they just > /dev/null

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MNgary

295 posts in 1877 days


#9 posted 03-13-2016 04:21 AM

I have always used mine with ‘bevel to the wood’—bevel down, cutting edge above center. I see the Sorby demo on YouTube also has the bevel down.

-- I dream of the world where a duck can cross the road and no one asks why.

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

826 posts in 1190 days


#10 posted 03-13-2016 04:36 AM

In the pictures from Lee Valley, they show the bevel up. That makes more sense because of the extra distance of overhang from the tool rest if the bevel was down…......... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson)

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Wildwood

1882 posts in 1595 days


#11 posted 03-13-2016 11:18 AM

Depends on what you are doing with bedan tool whether bevel up or down. Bevel up if using as a skew or turning beads, set tool rest higher. Bevel down for scraping, parting or using to size tenons normal tool rest height.

I use bevel up for x-mas ornaments, beads, & finials. When skewing use same hold & angle as a skew chisel. Took a lot of practice and yes get catches if not paying attention. What worked for me; tool rest height, light cuts and not rushing the cut. You will definitely get in trouble if forcing the cut!

Sharpen my tool using only a diamond file on all four sides.

JMHO, learning curve with my tool would have been faster if tool came with only 4” blade & 12” handle verus 6 inches. Just think shorter tool would provide easier tool control but yjay’s water over the dam now.

-- Bill

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HapHazzard

92 posts in 328 days


#12 posted 03-13-2016 04:41 PM


I have always used mine with bevel to the wood —bevel down, cutting edge above center. I see the Sorby demo on YouTube also has the bevel down.

- MNgary

Would you happen to have a link to that? I tried searching for “sorby bedan,” but no dice. The only video where I’ve actually seen a bedan used bevel-down was on making a bottom-recess on a bowl. It would save a lot of trial and error if I could see the techniques that are used.

-- Unix programmers never die; they just > /dev/null

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HapHazzard

92 posts in 328 days


#13 posted 03-13-2016 04:54 PM


JMHO, learning curve with my tool would have been faster if tool came with only 4” blade & 12” handle verus 6 inches. Just think shorter tool would provide easier tool control but yjay s water over the dam now.

- Wildwood

That’s surprising. I’d think it would be easier to make fine movements with a longer tool, because you have to move the handle more to move the cutting edge.

One advantage of making your own, I guess, is that you can use 6” or even 4” tool bits and replace them when you use them up. Or you could buy or make an adjustable handle so you can pull out a little more blade each time you sharpen it—or adjust it to different lengths for different techniques. Considering how versatile it is, and that the shaft is sqaure rather than having a reduced tang, it sounds like an adjustable handle would be the hot setup. I wish I’d thought of that before I built this. :)

-- Unix programmers never die; they just > /dev/null

View LeeMills's profile

LeeMills

271 posts in 761 days


#14 posted 03-13-2016 05:57 PM

HapHazzard said..
”Assuming they mean M2 with +5% cobalt, that s basically AISI M35 HSS. M35 is harder and more wear-resistant than M2, but less so than M42. It s probably worth the extra $6 in terms of holding an edge, but it would be a tougher grind. You d really hate grinding the sides if you went with M35.”

Thanks for the info on the steel type/value, especially since I bought three. Two will become 1/2” scrapers for boxes or other small items.
I am terrible stating things some times such as in the grinding. I did not plan to grind the sides to a trapezoid. Maybe “relieve or easing” is a better term for slightly rounding over the bottom corners of the shaft to prevent it from digging into the tool rest. Cutting with the bevel up you can’t do that without loosing the corner points at the cutting edge, cutting bevel down it doesn’t matter.
I believe the trapezoid shape is only to keep it from binding with a deep parting cut, the same way many parting tools are diamond shape.

”Would you happen to have a link to that? I tried searching for “sorby bedan,” but no dice.”
I did not see the Sorby but this shows it with bevel down and using a sizing attachment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYMJXdF-WZo
I saw another in Spanish a few days ago but can’t find it now.

”That’s surprising. I’d think it would be easier to make fine movements with a longer tool, because you have to move the handle more to move the cutting edge”
I have to agree with Wildwood on this. My favorite skew is a 1” Sorby worn down to a blade length of about three inches now. Except for roughing, the majority of cuts I make with spindle tools has my hand on the bulb and index finger resting on the steel. IIRC it was Jimmy Clewes who gave the example or writing, you always hold the pencil as close to the tip as possible for fine control; move your fingers halfway up the pencil and you may not even be able to read what you tried to write.

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

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HapHazzard

92 posts in 328 days


#15 posted 03-13-2016 06:21 PM

One thing I forgot to mention was how I set the blade into the handle. I see a lot of how-to articles and videos that recommend making the handle out of two pieces of wood and gluing them together with the blade inside, usually with an epoxy of some kind. I don’t go along with this for two reasons: you can’t remove the blade if you change your mind or need to replace it, and you have to turn the handle with the blade in it, which is always awkward and sometimes impossible. The only real advantage, I guess, is that you can use woods that really shouldn’t be used for tool handles because they tend to split when you try to drive a piece of tool steel into them. I use either white ash or American hickory—nothing fancy, I’m not overly concerned with how a handle looks; it’s for the shop, not the living room wall.

Anyway, the technique I use is to drill a hole at least 1/16” smaller than the diameter of the end of the tang and 1/4” to 1/2” deeper than the tang is intended to go. This is to prevent the tool from bottoming out before it gets tight and allows room for tightening if it comes loose. I drill the hole after I finish turning the handle. I just replace the live center with a drill chuck and run it in up to the mark at 760 rpm. It always squeals like a banshee, but there’s nothing you can do about that, except maybe lay a hand on it to absorb some of the vibration. Before I take the handle out of the chuck I enlarge the hole with a tapered reamer, turning the workpiece with the handwheel.

If the tool has a square tang, I use a chisel to square the corners of the opening, but only the outer half of the channel, then I press the ferrule onto the collar. Once the handle is ready and any shaping has been done to the tang, I push the tool into the handle as far as I can, straighten it, then, holding the handle with the blade down, hit it as hard as I can with a rawhide mallet. Then I check the alignment and give it another smack. I repeat this until the blade is as deep as I want it or it stops moving—hopefully both. If it stops well short of where I want it I’ll pull it out, enlarge the hole and try again. If it’s just a little shy I’ll beat on it repeatedly then see if it has moved. When it really won’t go any further, it’s done—at least until the humidity drops and it loosens up again.

I usually use wood that’s thoroughly dried, aged and crack-free, and I try to pick days when the humidity is low. Mid-winter is best if you can plan that far ahead.

-- Unix programmers never die; they just > /dev/null

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