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Table Saw - Should I be using these items? And mounting router

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Forum topic by The__Dude posted 02-27-2016 01:52 PM 1111 views 0 times favorited 24 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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The__Dude

125 posts in 526 days


02-27-2016 01:52 PM

I have completed a few projects using my table saw.
I have been reading more and have some questions?

I did not know kerf size.
The thin kerf blade I bought does not work with the riving knife.
Better to get a full kerf blade? Or the knife that is for thin kerf blades?
I thinking of getting a good full kerf blade.

Should I use feather boards?
Something better than the Delta plastic push stick?

I want to mount a board on the table saw for a router.
Are the plastic inserts OK? Or should I spend the money on an aluminium insert?


24 replies so far

View eflanders's profile

eflanders

87 posts in 1314 days


#1 posted 02-27-2016 02:29 PM

Dude,
Kerf is the total width of the blades cut.
When using a thin kerf blade, you will need to use a thin kerf riving knife. The knife should be no wider than the cut width of the blade used. However, you can use a thinner riving knife than the blades cut successfully. So, get a thin kerf riving knife. If you forget to change it when using a thicker blade, you will be ok.

Quality table saw router mounting inserts can be made from plastic or aluminum. It’s whatever you feel most comfortable with in your shop environment.

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

7168 posts in 2261 days


#2 posted 02-27-2016 02:36 PM

Push “sticks” are IMHO dangerous and are inviting kickbacks.
A much better plan is to use one of the many styles of home made “shoe” style pushing devices.
See this post. http://lumberjocks.com/projects/130049

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fibreglass trees. http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

View jdmaher's profile

jdmaher

384 posts in 2043 days


#3 posted 02-27-2016 03:16 PM

For me, I have found that thin kerf blades are only useful if I’m trying to eke out a bit of oomph from an under-powered tablesaw. Really, I think they are not worth it. I now use the best standard 1/8” blade I can afford.

Yes, featherboards are a good thing – when needed. They are NOT needed for every cut.

Nothin’ wrong with the plastic push stick, but I’ve made push blocks and sticks of all sorts for different purposes. I DO suggest that you make, not buy, what you need when you need it.

On my router tables, I have used phenolic insert for a medium-sized router and it was fine. For the big old router I have now, I have an aluminum insert, which easily handles the greater weight.

-- Jim Maher, Illinois

View JBrow's profile

JBrow

818 posts in 383 days


#4 posted 02-27-2016 03:42 PM

The__Dude,

If the saw is 3 hp or more, the only problems with a 1/8” kerf blade is the cost of the blade. If you have a table saw with less than a 3hp motor but cut lumber 1” or less than thick, a sharp full kerf blade will work. Cutting thick stock with a 1/8” kerf blade on a saw with less than 3hp would require a slower feed rate and heat could build on the blade, dulling or destroying the blade and burning the wood.

The thin kerf blade requires less power. If cutting thick stock, outfit the less than 3hp saw with a thin kerf riving knife. One option for getting a thin kerf riving knife, if you cannot find one that fits your saw, is to contract a machine shop to fabric it.

I keep the table saw guard in place whenever I can. I think it is just safer than a spinning exposed blade plus I like to keep the blade up as high as it will go to reduce heat on the blade – but bad idea without the guard in place. I use feather boards from time to time to hold the stock snugly against the fence and/or down to the table. The feather boards holding stock against the fence should be positioned in front of the blade; not even with the blade or behind the blade. When the end of the board gets near the feather board I use the push stick to finish the cut. I believe a push stick absolutely requires a riving knife to prevent kickback.

shipwright’s recommendation to use a push pad is a great idea for safety and convenience. A well-made push pad will allow control of the stock without need for a feather board and keep your hand out of harm’s way. Gripper is a push pad that a lot of folks seem to like, but you can build one yourself. Just do not use metal fasteners. There are also roller guides that mount to the fence and keep the stock tight to the fence and allow the stock only to advance. I have not used this system, so I cannot say how well it works or what problems it may pose.

A router table insert from which the router hangs must be stout. If not, the weight of the router and/or any downward pressure on the stock over the router table insert can cause deflection. This deflection would make setting depth of cut more difficult and could change by just enough to spoil a cut or require a lot of sanding. While I have no data, I suspect an aluminum insert would deflect less than other materials. But if you every needed to modify the router mounting plate, aluminum would be more of a challenge.

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

4452 posts in 3424 days


#5 posted 02-27-2016 03:59 PM

I must respectfully disagree with JBrow on the issue of a fully raised blade. To each his own, but most TS users (me included) will only raise the blade until the gullet is just above the workpiece. Make your own decision.
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7211 posts in 2839 days


#6 posted 02-27-2016 04:03 PM

What saw are you using?

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View MadMark's profile (online now)

MadMark

977 posts in 916 days


#7 posted 02-27-2016 04:09 PM

Zero Clearance Insert

M

-- Madmark - Madmark2150@yahoo.com Wiretreefarm.com

View The__Dude's profile

The__Dude

125 posts in 526 days


#8 posted 02-27-2016 04:43 PM

It is a Delta 36-725
I was looking at a Forrest blade.
Guessing a combo 40 tooth blade.
Woodworker II ?

I neee to connect my sub panel at the main panel.
Theb I will run the saw on 220v

I do have issues keeping the wood against the fence.
I do things right or left handed.
I tend to use the saw left handed, maybe I should move the fence to the left side.

I have the new Bosch fixed/plunge router and was looking at the Kreg insert.
I am going to make the table for the delta saw.

View The__Dude's profile

The__Dude

125 posts in 526 days


#9 posted 02-27-2016 04:46 PM

Most all of my upcoming projects are ripping 4/4 boards.

I have my miter saw station built and setup already.

View The__Dude's profile

The__Dude

125 posts in 526 days


#10 posted 02-27-2016 04:51 PM

I can make those.
I have some scrap 3/4 plywood.

Thanks!


Push “sticks” are IMHO dangerous and are inviting kickbacks.
A much better plan is to use one of the many styles of home made “shoe” style pushing devices.
See this post. http://lumberjocks.com/projects/130049

- shipwright


View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7211 posts in 2839 days


#11 posted 02-27-2016 04:59 PM

I’d go with a decent 3/32” thin kerf blade for that saw. A full kerf blade is 33% wider, and will be harder on the saw…especially in thicker materials. A full kerf blade will have more tendency to overload that 13 amp motor. The Forrest is nice, but is pretty expensive for a blade that’s a compromise by design (like any general purpose blade). A $30 Irwin Marples 40T or 50T will come pretty close for a 1/3 the cost, and should be wide enough to clear your riving knife. You’ll still want a decent 24T 3/32” ripper for thicker stock. Freud Industrial, Infinity, CMT Industrial, Tenryu, Ridge Carbide are also good options. Spending the same $100 for a good task specific crosscut and rip blade will yield better overall performance than any general purpose or combo blade. Keep the blade clean…it’ll work better and stay sharp longer. Tips for Picking Saw Blades

With a good miter gauge or crosscut sled, your TS has potential to be more accurate than a miter saw.

Definitely use feather boards for ripping whenever possible. I prefer push shoes to push sticks b/c they help hold the stock down.

Prepping the wood to make it flat and straight, with a good square reference edge will help with accuracy. A jointer and a planer are the best tools for doing that, but there are work arounds with hand planes, planer sleds, router and TS jigs.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View JBrow's profile

JBrow

818 posts in 383 days


#12 posted 02-27-2016 05:01 PM

Bill White,

Since you raise such an important safety issue on a very dangerous machine, I thought I would elaborate. If I remember correctly, a survey of Emergency Rooms regarding woodworking accidents showed most visits were from table saw accidents. Your caution must be respected if table saw manufacturer blade guards are not kept in place. No guard, keep the blade low! While I have no data, I suspect many woodworkers remove the blade guards and never use them; much like is done on TV. I also think this practice invites an accident and is therefore extremely dangerous.

The reason for keeping the blade as low as possible is for safety. Anyone who does NOT keep the blade guard in place, together with its integrated splitter or a riving knife, invites trouble. Obviously a 3-1/8” high unguarded spinning blade is just plain dangerous. Using a table saw without a riving knife or splitter invites kickback which could result in hand to blade contact and/or a bonk on the head. The riving knife or splitter keeps the cut edges from contacting the teeth on the back side of the blade.

So why would I run the blade up so high? I am following manufacturer recommendation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SgdTXphEJ4

at 1:58 minutes

Forrest argues that heat on the blade is bad for the blade, probably for a couple of reasons. By leaving as much of the blade exposed to free air, the blade runs cooler. A cooler will continue to run true and remain sharp longer. A dull blade requires greater feed force and can result in an accident. However, they recommend that the blade is guarded, as table saw manufacturers uniformly recommend.

In the end, everyone should think about their safety and set up tools to make the task as safe as possible. Without a doubt a low blade is safer, with or without a blade guard, but like with most things, there are trade-offs.

View teejk02's profile

teejk02

424 posts in 589 days


#13 posted 02-27-2016 05:49 PM



Push “sticks” are IMHO dangerous and are inviting kickbacks.
A much better plan is to use one of the many styles of home made “shoe” style pushing devices.
See this post. http://lumberjocks.com/projects/130049

- shipwright

I bought a couple of the heavy plastic ones years ago…they weren’t that expensive. Reminds me that it’s time to look for new ones (they got a little close to the blade once or twice). The other thing I do on occasion is to borrow the push pads from the jointer when I’m using the dado set.

View jerryminer's profile

jerryminer

528 posts in 905 days


#14 posted 02-27-2016 06:32 PM

I use push shoes similar to Paul, the shipwright’s shoes, but I make mine a little taller. In the picture in Paul’s link—-the one with the blue rubber band visible—Paul’s thumb is too close to the blade, IMHO.

View hotbyte's profile

hotbyte

842 posts in 2439 days


#15 posted 02-27-2016 07:24 PM

I’ve been using the Irwin Marples think kerf blades from Lowe’s on my 36-725 and riving knife without issue… both a 24 tooth rip and 40 (or maybe it’s 50) combo.

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