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Dumbfounded. Static. Zaps.

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Forum topic by Keith Kelly posted 02-17-2016 10:44 PM 857 views 0 times favorited 24 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Keith Kelly

223 posts in 1130 days


02-17-2016 10:44 PM

Ok, I feel like I’m a decent debugger much of the time, but I’m having one heck of a time trying to find out why I keep getting zapped when touching parts of the DC system.

Notably, after using the Performax drum sander.

They are small shocks, but I’m concerned there may be a bigger problem.

Here’s a 5 minute YouTube video…

In case it was related to power getting somewhere it shouldn’t, I turned off the breakers even, and still it happened.

I’m wondering if there might be a fault in some part of one of the motors connected to the system…maybe something with a component that stores energy, such as a capacitor, that may be causing it to happen after power is disconnected. But with no dust moving through the system, I’d figure that static electricity due to friction shouldn’t be an issue… ?

As you can tell by the video, I am beyond clueless.

Note: immediately after lots of sander usage, the zap is much stronger. Over time, the zap fades. Could there be static building throughout the system that isn’t getting grounded appropriately?


View on YouTube

-- Keith - Bolivar, Missouri, http://www.SquareOneWoodworks.com


24 replies so far

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

7179 posts in 2043 days


#1 posted 02-17-2016 10:57 PM

sounds like a grounding issue

View 716's profile

716

502 posts in 383 days


#2 posted 02-17-2016 10:59 PM

Simple Watson!
Running dust specks create static charge when rubbing against the hose. Can be cured by winding bare copper wire around the full length of the hose .

-- It's nice!

View AandCstyle's profile

AandCstyle

2575 posts in 1723 days


#3 posted 02-17-2016 11:01 PM

Keith, dust moving through plastic creates static electricity. That is why Festool and a few others sell anti-static dust collection hoses. You could try to ground the tubing so see if that would help. HTH

-- Art

View JAAune's profile

JAAune

1646 posts in 1783 days


#4 posted 02-17-2016 11:35 PM

Using metal duct is the easiest solution if starting from scratch but the bare wire suggested above may work if the plastic pipe is already in place.

-- See my work at http://remmertstudios.com and http://altaredesign.com

View derrickparks57's profile

derrickparks57

128 posts in 1337 days


#5 posted 02-17-2016 11:40 PM

If you wrap copper wire around the piping connect one end of the wire to your DC, leave the other end loose, otherwise it creates a circuit and it will zap you even harder.

-- Derrick, Florida, DP Woodwerks

View Keith Kelly's profile

Keith Kelly

223 posts in 1130 days


#6 posted 02-17-2016 11:46 PM

I forgot to mention, the DC hose is the expensive type from PeachTree that has the wire infused into it. The wire is grounded at the DC and not at the sander.

-- Keith - Bolivar, Missouri, http://www.SquareOneWoodworks.com

View 716's profile

716

502 posts in 383 days


#7 posted 02-17-2016 11:52 PM

Maybe it is you not the dust collector ? What are you wearing naughty boy ? (seriously, any synthetic clothing or shoes )

-- It's nice!

View JAAune's profile

JAAune

1646 posts in 1783 days


#8 posted 02-18-2016 12:05 AM

Wire-reinforced hose is helpful but not a cure-all. It wouldn’t hurt to add the external grounding too. Plastic doesn’t ground very easily.

-- See my work at http://remmertstudios.com and http://altaredesign.com

View Keith Kelly's profile

Keith Kelly

223 posts in 1130 days


#9 posted 02-18-2016 01:33 AM

But…. Why would it keep zapping me, repeatedly, even after everything is shut off, as in 30 times in a row? What could be generating that static?

-- Keith - Bolivar, Missouri, http://www.SquareOneWoodworks.com

View firefighterontheside's profile

firefighterontheside

13517 posts in 1323 days


#10 posted 02-18-2016 04:03 AM

The plastic pipe and hose and pipe stores static electricity. Being shocked once doesn’t discharge it all since the plastic is not a conductor of the charge. When I first put my system together I got a huge shock from an aluminum blast gate. Later as I had the machine in I could see sparks jumping from the plastic hose to the blast gate. After I wrapped copper wire around the pipe and hose and making positive connection to each blast gate and then running that all the way to the motor mount of the DC. I havent gotten a shock since.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View tomsteve's profile

tomsteve

394 posts in 685 days


#11 posted 02-18-2016 12:43 PM

to start, the ground wires ya got wrapped around the lower bag post? ground those on the impeller housing.as they are they arent grounded properly. get them on the impeller housing where metal makes an unbroken path to the motor ground. just back a screw out, wrap the wire around it, and tighten it back up. your ground wires should wrap around the pipe to each machine and be grounded on each machine.
if its all grounded properly,

hows the humidity in your shop? whats the material of your floor?

View ChuckV's profile

ChuckV

2880 posts in 2993 days


#12 posted 02-18-2016 12:48 PM

Since your hose is grounded to the DC, are you sure that the DC itself is properly grounded?

-- “Big man, pig man, ha ha, charade you are.” ― R. Waters

View tomsteve's profile

tomsteve

394 posts in 685 days


#13 posted 02-18-2016 12:48 PM


and then running that all the way to the motor mount of the DC. I havent gotten a shock since.

- firefighterontheside

an even better grounding location than what i said.

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

1806 posts in 605 days


#14 posted 02-18-2016 12:59 PM



to start, the ground wires ya got wrapped around the lower bag post? ground those on the impeller housing.as they are they arent grounded properly. get them on the impeller housing where metal makes an unbroken path to the motor ground. just back a screw out, wrap the wire around it, and tighten it back up. your ground wires should wrap around the pipe to each machine and be grounded on each machine.
if its all grounded properly,

hows the humidity in your shop? whats the material of your floor?

- tomsteve

Yep, I don’t think the post that you have the hose grounded too is properly grounded. The paint where it bolts on is likely non-conductive. I’d ground it to the motor mount.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View Keith Kelly's profile

Keith Kelly

223 posts in 1130 days


#15 posted 02-18-2016 01:38 PM



to start, the ground wires ya got wrapped around the lower bag post? ground those on the impeller housing.as they are they arent grounded properly. get them on the impeller housing where metal makes an unbroken path to the motor ground. just back a screw out, wrap the wire around it, and tighten it back up. your ground wires should wrap around the pipe to each machine and be grounded on each machine.
if its all grounded properly,

The wires around the lower bag post are grounded to the motor housing….To a fat screw that goes into it. Without those grounded, the static buildup is enough to gather cat fur from the neighbor’s yard.

But, they are not grounded at each machine, just the DC. I might as well hook up the grounds to multiple machines, so I’ll do that.

hows the humidity in your shop? whats the material of your floor?

- tomsteve

Humidity? Variable, as I live in Missouri… It’s pretty dry now.


The plastic pipe and hose and pipe stores static electricity. Being shocked once doesn t discharge it all since the plastic is not a conductor of the charge. When I first put my system together I got a huge shock from an aluminum blast gate. Later as I had the machine in I could see sparks jumping from the plastic hose to the blast gate. After I wrapped copper wire around the pipe and hose and making positive connection to each blast gate and then running that all the way to the motor mount of the DC. I havent gotten a shock since.

- firefighterontheside

Interesting. This would probably make sense about the partial discharge of static, since it gets weaker as time goes on. (if there was an electrical problem, it would probably remain a constant power). I do not have any of the hose clamp rings grounded, and there is no wire wrapping around that particular blast gate. I’ll go ahead and do that….this would surely fix it. (assuming there’s no problem I’m hiding)


Since your hose is grounded to the DC, are you sure that the DC itself is properly grounded?

- ChuckV

I believe so. If I unhook any of the ground wires from the trunk/mess of ground wires, the static buildup is insane. See cat fur comment.

Yep, I don t think the post that you have the hose grounded too is properly grounded. The paint where it bolts on is likely non-conductive. I d ground it to the motor mount.

- HokieKen

Are you referring to the black post? The wire wrapped around that goes to a big screw that goes into the motor housing. Having that hooked up fixed the issue with the static buildup around the bag area. The wrap around the black post was a quick hack to see if it would work, and it did so I kept it. But, I’d better clean it up anyway…so I’ll re-ground it in a neater fashion, under bolts.

...

Thanks for the help… I’ll try these ideas…

-- Keith - Bolivar, Missouri, http://www.SquareOneWoodworks.com

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