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Forum topic by Debora Cadene posted 02-14-2016 12:07 PM 653 views 0 times favorited 13 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Debora Cadene

54 posts in 1327 days


02-14-2016 12:07 PM

Hey all. Looking for some tidbits on saw blades. I have the dewalt 12” sliding miter chop saw, and it still has the original blade it came with, on it. If I go slow, or put wood behind or under, I get a pretty respectable cut on the 1X wood. I’d like to get another blade, a good one, that will give me better results for trim or the 1X wood, as I’m a little anal about the splintering. Finding wood that is decent is tough enough,with out having to deal with a messy cut.
I’m also curious about Daido blades. I’d like to make some interlocking inserts for bottles . I want to use 1X wood. I’d like to use a full 1X6 , which of course is only roughly 5.5” and I need to come up half way so the matching piece fits flush when inserted (think giant + or X but with more then one cut in each) I will assume a 3/4 daido will do the job, but how far up with the different sizes go, to accommodate this, or is it best to trim it down. I’d like to have at least 5”. Do I need a really big blade? Anyhow.. basically just wondering what max cut depth the different size blades will go.
I have a router question as well, but will do that one in a bit.

thanks all.

debbie.


13 replies so far

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3945 posts in 1959 days


#1 posted 02-14-2016 01:22 PM

For a smooth cut on a SCMS, it’s hard to beat a blade that has a negative hook angle. One I use all the time, and is fairly reasonably priced is the Freud LU91. The negative hook really reduces tear out, although these blades do cut more slowly than a positive hook (what you have now). Hook angle is simply the slant of the tooth relative to the centerline of the blade, the negative leans back and has the smoother cut. Other companies besides Freud offer them as well, look for those labeled for miter saws. the depth of cut of any blade (I’m guessing you intend the dado to be used on a table saw) depends somewhat on the saw as well as the blade. On my saw an 8” dado set can cut to just a shade over 2” deep. That’s not recommended, so if you cut your lap joints with that setup, it would be best to cut maybe 3/4” at a time with several cuts to get that deep. Even then I think I would try to figure out another way to do it. Bear in mind, this is only my opinion and others may have a different take on it.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7216 posts in 2841 days


#2 posted 02-14-2016 01:25 PM

Hi Debbie – It’s early and I’m a little groggy, but I don’t think I’m fully understanding the desired end result of the giant X concept. I do know that you need a table saw for a dado set, not a sliding miter. Dado sets are commonly available in 6” and 8” diameter, but larger sets are available, though they’re generally expensive.

As for a blade for your 12” SCMS, you’ll want a blade that has a hook angle in the range of a negative angle to a low positive angle (no more than +5°)....the blade or packaging should tell the hook angle, aka “rake”. The Diablo line is usually a great value, but it’s worth noting that most of the line is near 3/32” (0.098”) thin kerf. Because of the larger span of a 12” blade, there’s more tendency for the blade to flex, so I’d seriously considering going with a thicker blade. That limits the choices that can be found at the homecenters, and thus the available bargains, but I think you’ll be happier in the end. A quality blade with a grind known as “Hi-ATB” (high alternate top bevel…usually 30° to 40° top bevel on each tooth) should yield the least amount tear out possible. There’s always a tradeoff though….the pointy tips of a Hi-ATB grind are more prone to abrasion, so will have somewhat shorter edge life than some other choices. Depending on your cutting habits, what you cut, how well you keep the blade clean, etc., you can still get quite a while between sharpenings. A regular ATB (usually 10° to 20° top bevel on each tooth) or a combination grind called ATB/R will both give very good results with better edge life…there are lots of choices in these grinds that also combine the low hook angle and full kerf recommendations. There’s also a triple chip grind (TCG) that’s very rugged and gets best edge life, but isn’t as clean cutting as the Hi-ATB, ATB, or ATB/R.

The Forrest Chopmaster is very well regarded example of an ATB/R grind, but is at the top end of the price range…~ $150. The Infinity 012-080 is very similar, is also excellent, and runs about $110. The Freud Industrial LU80R012 is a solid Hi-ATB choice at ~ $115. The CMT Industrial 210.096.12 is a similar Hi-ATB as the LU80….~ $100

Good luck…HTH!

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View dddddmorgan's profile

dddddmorgan

57 posts in 593 days


#3 posted 02-14-2016 01:27 PM

You can make dado cuts and half lap joints with a sliding mitre saw, I’ve done it many times, just set the depth stop and nibble away. A good quality blade helps, the Freud Fusion, a Tenyru, Forrest, and the list goes on. What’s important is to match the tooth count to what you’re cutting. The more teeth the smoother the cut, typically. The trade off is that the more teeth you use the slower it is in hardwoods. Your choice here really. Don’t bother shopping at one of the big box stores, try to find a local construction supply or tool dealer, better quality on the shelf.

Now as for the dado blade set, it won’t work, don’t try. The arbor on the saw is too short. Don’t try a wobble dado blade either or someone might nickname you “Stumpy.” The arbor and everything else about a mitre saw is not set up for anything but a single blade. Stack dado sets work well in a radial arm saw, they have a long arbor and are built like a table saw. Check out some New Yankee Workshop videos, Norm does it all the time.

My personal experience for good finish cut blades has been in the range of 80 – 96 tooth count. When I was doing trim work I kept two blades handy and would trade them out. I had a Tenyru 80 tooth with big thick carbide that cut butter smooth but was slow on hardwoods so I would switch to a Freud that was a thin kerf for better production. When you are doing a couple thousand feet of trim work on a flat rate this matters. At home a good quality heavy tooth blade will do everything, just take your time.

-- Maintenance Man - I do precision guesswork based on unreliable data from people of questionable knowledge...

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2198 posts in 946 days


#4 posted 02-14-2016 01:31 PM

I agree with everything Fred ^ said.

Check your owners manual as to whether dado blades can even be used with your saw.
Also there may be issues with the length of the arbor.

I know my RAS is limited to about 5/8” wide dado set.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Debora Cadene's profile

Debora Cadene

54 posts in 1327 days


#5 posted 02-14-2016 01:52 PM

See, I knew i’d mess up my own questions. I’m looking for a blade for my chop saw that will do nicer work, and for the dado, yes i’d be using a table saw. i’ll attach a picture of what I’m trying to do. ( can’t get the pictures, so here’s a link.)

https://img1.etsystatic.com/051/0/8172127/il_570xN.716770861_2c6w.jpg

https://img1.etsystatic.com/047/0/8172127/il_570xN.716771109_kr3z.jpg

The width of this particular project is 4 3/4”, so a wood could be trimmed, but I don’t know what size dado or what ever it is I’m supposed to use to get cuts like this. I’d also like to do thinner board for making inserts into beer totes, like this…

https://makesomething.tv/sites/default/files/addimage/9.jpg

With thinner board, I’m told a router…but as you all know….i am still new to this whole thing, so my fist stop is right here to see what you all think.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3945 posts in 1959 days


#6 posted 02-14-2016 01:57 PM

I suspect that to make those lap joints I’d probably cut the the sides with a regular blade on a TS, then clean the waste out by hand (coping saw or something) then square up the bottom with a chisel. So, it would be 2 cuts with a regular blade, then clear the waste between the kerfs.

Edit : you could also “nibble” the waste out with a regular saw blade.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Ger21's profile

Ger21

1047 posts in 2596 days


#7 posted 02-14-2016 02:07 PM

If you want to cut the joint half way into the board, then a dado blade is probably not going to allow you to cut the 2-3/8” depth you need.
An 8” dado blade is usually used on a 10” table saw, and will usually only give you about 2” of depth, depending on your saw.
I’d make the two outer cuts with a regular table saw blade using a cutoff sled, and chisel out the waste. because the chisel will be splitting the wood, the waste should come out very easily. And you won’t see the part that you chisel, so it doesn’t matter what it even looks like.

-- Gerry, http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/index.html http://www.jointcam.com

View tomsteve's profile

tomsteve

394 posts in 685 days


#8 posted 02-14-2016 08:05 PM

looking at those etsy pictures it almost looks like the pieces dont slide in like youre looking to do but are individual pieces. it looks like the horizontals are solid the full length then the verticles are short pieces glued/screwed/nailed in.
i could be wrong but it looks like the grain on some of them doesnt follow through the joint and the color of the wood is a little different on some of pieces.

View Debora Cadene's profile

Debora Cadene

54 posts in 1327 days


#9 posted 02-15-2016 12:07 PM

Here’s another one from that same item, and they appear to all be cut… My only concert with the single pass on the table saw on each side of my marks would be consistancy. I can’t walk and talk at the same time, never mind getting something exactly the same more then once.

https://img0.etsystatic.com/047/0/8172127/il_570xN.716646404_d153.jpg

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7216 posts in 2841 days


#10 posted 02-15-2016 12:48 PM

Here s another one from that same item, and they appear to all be cut… My only concert with the single pass on the table saw on each side of my marks would be consistancy. I can t walk and talk at the same time, never mind getting something exactly the same more then once.

https://img0.etsystatic.com/047/0/8172127/il_570xN.716646404_d153.jpg

- Debora Cadene

There are many ways to help get consistent cuts and spacing. You can build something like an indexing jig pretty easily that attaches to your miter gauge or that slides in your miter slots …. it’s really just a large finger joint jig. Determine the width and depth of the cuts you want. Cut an indexing pin the same width as your dado cuts. Set the height of the dado set to the depth of cut you want…max height with an 8” dado set is usually a bit over 2”. Set the index pin the distance apart that you want your cuts. Make the first cut, then set that cut over the index pin to get consistent spacing, width, and depth of each cut. You can even use a block gauge to help determine where to make the first cut. The stacked dado blade keeps a consistent width and cut depth, and the index pin keeps consistent spacing between the cuts. Do a couple of practice pieces before attempting your actual work piece.

Something like this from Alan Schaffter that he used to get equal spacing for a torsion box:

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View ohtimberwolf's profile

ohtimberwolf

634 posts in 1818 days


#11 posted 02-15-2016 01:49 PM

Here is the first of a series of videos that I found extremely helpful. I had no idea there was so much to know about saw blades and the info will cost you nothing. Hope it helps. larry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWXDW8DxWp8

-- Just a barn cat, now gone to cat heaven.

View tomsteve's profile

tomsteve

394 posts in 685 days


#12 posted 02-15-2016 08:41 PM


Here s another one from that same item, and they appear to all be cut… My only concert with the single pass on the table saw on each side of my marks would be consistancy. I can t walk and talk at the same time, never mind getting something exactly the same more then once.

https://img0.etsystatic.com/047/0/8172127/il_570xN.716646404_d153.jpg

- Debora Cadene

well that makes it more clear( or clearer?).
on the dado blade,i have the freud sd208 set and its really nice. personally i think you can do this perfectly. it just takes practice. theres quite a few videos and articles on box joint jigs, which is basically what your making, and how to build a box joint jig. with a fence as tall as your stock attached to your miter fence youll be able to clamp the work down for each pass. start by practicing with some scraps.
with everything set up im thinkin youll be able to make those cuts in 2 or 3 passes.
if you want to bypass building a box joint jig you can look at the incra i box jig. takes a Lot of the guesswork out of the equation. some good videos on tbe www of the ibox in action,too.
oh, i have a freud neg angle blade in my miter saw and its been great. ive read nothing but good about infinity blades,too, which im going to be getting on for my ts soon.

View chiseler's profile

chiseler

121 posts in 354 days


#13 posted 02-16-2016 01:38 AM

Hi Debora,I’m a big fan of forrest,amana,and ridge carbide blades,but you would have to order them online.As far as the bottle rack goes,knotscot has the right idea.The only thing I would ad is that you start from dead center.This way all you have to do is flip the boards end for end to get identical spacing.And put a sacrificial fence on your miter gauge to back up your cut..the only problem I see is finding dado to cut 2 3/4” deep.So you might have to nibble away at the same way with a single 10” blade

good luck

-- Scott.Triangle,NY Becareful and don't forget...They cut meat too!

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