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I need help with raised panels-

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Forum topic by ToddTurner posted 02-13-2010 04:28 AM 1353 views 0 times favorited 21 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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ToddTurner

144 posts in 2009 days


02-13-2010 04:28 AM

Topic tags/keywords: maple raised panel stile rail cabinets door doors cabinet

I need some advice from more experienced cabinet guys than myself. Ive been doing this a few years and I think i do well but I believe in continuous improvement. Anyway, I noticed last night that the cabinets i made in my kitchen the stiles are raising above the rails. ONly by a few thousandths, but i wonder what i can do differently to fix this problem.
If you guys know of anything or anything I should be doing in the process of making the doors, please let me know. THanks to you all!

Todd


21 replies so far

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

112296 posts in 2263 days


#1 posted 02-13-2010 04:39 AM

Hey Todd
When building make sure you glue is good by testing it, you could have used Mortice and tenons or biscuits. or even dowels .after the fact you can predrill screw and plug.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View Rick  Dennington's profile

Rick Dennington

3467 posts in 1880 days


#2 posted 02-13-2010 04:45 AM

Greetings Todd: I’m no cabinet maker, or cabinet master, but have made a few. I would sugesst you run them through a drum sander if you have one to get them all uniform and flat. If everything went good in the glue-up, and the jointry is tight, then a couple of passes through the d.s. should take care of the minor problem…..........sounds like that’s all it is…... if no drum sander, then hit them with a random orbit sander acouple of good likcks…. that should do it…......... later.

-- " I started with nothing, and I've still got most of it left".......

View beginrbldr's profile

beginrbldr

99 posts in 1729 days


#3 posted 02-13-2010 04:55 AM

are you talking about if you lay the door flat on the table and you run your fingers across the rail and style joint you feel the style is higher than the rail or are you talking about the very top of the door where the styles height lifts above the rail?

-- Jeff, Laguna Hills CA

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ToddTurner

144 posts in 2009 days


#4 posted 02-13-2010 04:57 AM

Beginr-Its the 2nd one you mentioned-the very top of the door. Good question. I never thought about specifying.thanks

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

112296 posts in 2263 days


#5 posted 02-13-2010 05:05 AM

What kind of joinery do you have and is the problem that it’s loose or that it was misaligned when glued together?

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View beginrbldr's profile

beginrbldr

99 posts in 1729 days


#6 posted 02-13-2010 05:09 AM

In my opinion i think its seasonal movement. I could be wrong though.

-- Jeff, Laguna Hills CA

View Rick  Dennington's profile

Rick Dennington

3467 posts in 1880 days


#7 posted 02-13-2010 05:24 AM

Todd: Sorry….. my mistake. I was thinking it was some doors that you just made….. they are already in the kitchen…....I must of had a braincramp. I went back and re-read the blog again…. my mistake…........

-- " I started with nothing, and I've still got most of it left".......

View John Ormsby's profile

John Ormsby

1281 posts in 2423 days


#8 posted 02-13-2010 05:37 AM

It most likely has something to do with the type of glue you used. Could you please tell us what type you used?

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

View GFYS's profile

GFYS

711 posts in 2157 days


#9 posted 02-13-2010 06:23 AM

DO NOT…set the rails into the styles all the way to the panel. The panel should be loose. Line up the ends of the styles with the edges of the rails when you assemble them.

“I need help with raised panels” is the topic of this thread…If it isn’t doors you are refering to..could you please specify exactly what it is you are talking about?

Oh and btw…it’s typical that the doors will need sanding flush at this joint…so if its a “few thousandths” there is nothing to do differently…better the styles stick out a bit than the rails.

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14855 posts in 2362 days


#10 posted 02-13-2010 09:31 AM

“better the styles stick out a bit than the rails” Why?

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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GFYS

711 posts in 2157 days


#11 posted 02-13-2010 09:48 AM

Why?

Because then he only needs to take down the ends of the styles rather than the entire length of the rails. Given that the style ends are generally polished on the edge sander anyway I would think this a “no-brainer”

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TopamaxSurvivor

14855 posts in 2362 days


#12 posted 02-13-2010 09:58 AM

It probably is to a cabinet maker ;-))

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Sawkerf's profile

Sawkerf

1730 posts in 1754 days


#13 posted 02-13-2010 05:33 PM

Todd -
Can you feel the difference at the bottom rail/stile joint or only on the top joint? Like Jeff, I’m thinking that this is normal expansion/contraction movement. Wood expansion/contraction is mostly across the grain and contraction of the rails could cause your situation. If the joints haven’t actually failed, let them alone for now and check them again in the summer. I’m betting that the problem will be gone – or at least lessened.

Are they cope and stick joints? When I make cope and stick doors, I use a small brush to “paint” my glue (usually Titebond II) on all joint surfaces. When clamping them up, I apply enough just enough clamp pressure to completely close the joints and wipe off the squeeze out with a damp cloth (damp, not soaking wet). Then, I let them sit in the clamps for several hours (preferably overnight).

Another consideration is the type of wood you’re using. Soft woods will move more than hard woods.

Although I don’t think that your panels are causing the problem, it’s always best to make the panels slightly undersized so they can move without stressing your frame joints. I go for ~1/8” undersized, use space balls, and just put a dab of glue at the rail centers.

-- Adversity doesn't build character...................it reveals it.

View John Ormsby's profile

John Ormsby

1281 posts in 2423 days


#14 posted 02-13-2010 05:49 PM

Are the raised panels floating or did you glue the edges to the stiles and/or rails?

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

View Chris Wright's profile

Chris Wright

534 posts in 2167 days


#15 posted 02-13-2010 06:07 PM

I’ve done breadboard ends on table tops before (similar to a raised panel) and with the wood shrinks across the grain revealing a slight “overhang” (in one case almost a 1/16”) I can’t think of anything that you can really do to prevent it from happening in the future, the only way I fixed it was to trim the over hang off, sand it and refinish.

-- "At its best, life is completely unpredictable." - Christopher Walken

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