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Please critique my finishing schedule on a walnut piece

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Forum topic by shoichi posted 01-18-2016 05:09 PM 742 views 0 times favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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shoichi

13 posts in 327 days


01-18-2016 05:09 PM

this is my first major project but ive done hours upon hours of research and reading to put together this regiment. please let me know if i am on the right track. it’ll be a walnut chandelier. it’s about 5 feet long and 18 inch wide.

step 1
sanded to 320. then put on two coats of BLO and have let the piece dry for 7 days inside a warm room. The oil is cured now and ready for step 2.

step 2.
i plan on sanding the piece lightly and then putting one coat of dewaxed shellac sealer. i will let it dry for 4 to 6 hours. i will apply shellac on both sides of the piece.

step 3.
stain the wood. i want to get a darker look to the walnut. so i am going to stain it with a darker shade stain. i will probably apply just one coat… i dont want to darken the wood too much. i will let the stain to dry for 24 hours.

step 4
lightly sand the stain with 320. then fill the pores. if i can find some crystalac grain filler, i will use it. if not, i will apply some watco danish oil. i will probably have to do it in two attempts. each time, i will wait 24 hours for the danish oil to cure. after the pores have been filled, i will wait another 24 hours just to be sure the danish oil has dried up for sure. so my pore filling using watco danish oil might add 3 days to my schedule.

step 5.
before applying my first coat of finish, i will sand with 320.
apply 3 coats of Arm R Seal’s general clear finish… i read on woodwhisperer website that this is the best overall finish that’s why i am choosing it. i will wait 24 hours between each coats… i will sand with 600 between each coat.

step 6. once the final coat has dried, my very very last step would be to sand the piece with 2000 grit.

step 7.. give the piece to the mother in law and hope for the best haha….

thanks in advance for any replies. i’ve learned so much from you guys by just being a lurker and reading for weeks.


11 replies so far

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jmartel

6572 posts in 1615 days


#1 posted 01-18-2016 06:48 PM

You’re using 4 different finishes in addition to a stain. Why? There’s no reason for it.

If you’re going to stain, stain first. Then put a top coat finish on. Done. You are way overcomplicating it.

-- The quality of one's woodworking is directly related to the amount of flannel worn.

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shoichi

13 posts in 327 days


#2 posted 01-18-2016 06:53 PM

Please forgive my ignorance


You re using 4 different finishes in addition to a stain. Why? There s no reason for it.

If you re going to stain, stain first. Then put a top coat finish on. Done. You are way overcomplicating it.

- jmartel


Please forgive my ignorance but I am using the dewax shellac as a sealer, the danish oil to fill the grain, the stain to darken the wood and the arm r seal top coat to give some protection to the wood.

is there anything i can do to simplify the process?

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jmartel

6572 posts in 1615 days


#3 posted 01-18-2016 07:07 PM

Get the color you want first. Then top coat.

For a Chandelier, you don’t need much protection. That’s out of the way and won’t really see any abuse. Top coat should be chosen based off of the sheen you want and the depth of the finish you want.

I’d probably stain it, then do a top coat in whatever you like that builds a surface finish (no oils). Add a few layers of top coat, then sand it flat. That should fill in the pores, and when you add another couple layers of top coat, everything will be filled in and flat like you want. I’ve done it with shellac, Arm R Seal, Poly, etc.

Whatever you decide to do, do a couple test pieces with different finishes to decide what you like the best. Also, buy the book “Understanding Wood Finishing” by Bob Flexner.

-- The quality of one's woodworking is directly related to the amount of flannel worn.

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conifur

955 posts in 617 days


#4 posted 01-18-2016 07:21 PM

I have done that with dye, dye the wood, a 1-11/2lb cut of dewaxed shellac or thinned oil base poly, buff with maroon pad, stain to pop the grain/color differences, then top coat. You are sanding way too fine and no need for the 600 and 2000 grit.
Most oil base stains only recommend sanding to 150-180 before staining.
Plus 2 on Flexners book, it is my finishing bible and he explains in an understandable sense.

-- Knowledge and experience equals Wisdom, Michael Frankowski

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shoichi

13 posts in 327 days


#5 posted 01-18-2016 07:39 PM


I have done that with dye, dye the wood, a 1-11/2lb cut of dewaxed shellac or thinned oil base poly, buff with maroon pad, stain to pop the grain/color differences, then top coat. You are sanding way too fine and no need for the 600 and 2000 grit.
Most oil base stains only recommend sanding to 150-180 before staining.
Plus 2 on Flexners book, it is my finishing bible and he explains in an understandable sense.

- conifur

Yea maybe i made a mistake sanding to 320 but I saw on youtube a few projects being done by wood workers that sanded up to 320.

so where do i go now?

i have a piece that’s cured of BLO. I need it darkned.

so i stain it, and then put a a few coats of top coat on it and call it a day? I’d like to put put the shellac sealcoat because there is some exposed end grain on the slab that i want to protect from observing too much finsh down the road.

so basically i am just skipping the grain filling then i guess

1- blo (already done)
2- shellac sealcoat
3- stain
4- top coat

does this sound like a more simplified process?

ps

i just bought the book off of amazon…..... thank u for the recommendation.

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conifur

955 posts in 617 days


#6 posted 01-18-2016 08:19 PM

You could use a liquid dye in the shellac to darken it without cloudiness , that is called toning. With the wash coat of shellac, and a 320 sanding the wood will not absorb much stain.
1- blo (already done)
2- shellac sealcoat
3- stain
4- top coat
Thats about normal.
Glad you bought the book, it is a wonderfully written piece.

-- Knowledge and experience equals Wisdom, Michael Frankowski

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shoichi

13 posts in 327 days


#7 posted 01-18-2016 09:36 PM


You could use a liquid dye in the shellac to darken it without cloudiness , that is called toning. With the wash coat of shellac, and a 320 sanding the wood will not absorb much stain.
1- blo (already done)
2- shellac sealcoat
3- stain
4- top coat
Thats about normal.
Glad you bought the book, it is a wonderfully written piece.

- conifur


You could use a liquid dye in the shellac to darken it without cloudiness , that is called toning. With the wash coat of shellac, and a 320 sanding the wood will not absorb much stain.
1- blo (already done)
2- shellac sealcoat
3- stain
4- top coat
Thats about normal.
Glad you bought the book, it is a wonderfully written piece.

- conifur

So if I was to add some dye to the shellac, I can probably skit staining the wood and just keep the steps as

1- BLO (already done)
2- shellac sealcoat + some dye (1-2 coats)
3- top coat (3 coats)

This seems pretty straight forward.
Does it sound good and a finish schedule that I can use on my Walnut piece?

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Rick M

7923 posts in 1845 days


#8 posted 01-19-2016 12:43 AM

Skip the BLO, it’s not doing anything except taking up your time.

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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conifur

955 posts in 617 days


#9 posted 01-19-2016 01:39 AM

Skip the BLO, it’s not doing anything except taking up your time.
First, it has already been done.
2nd BLO pops the grain color and differences.
Tone the first coat of Shellac, see if you like the shade. Do a sample piece.
Stain is your option.
then top coat.
If you are not in a hurry on this project, wait till you get Bobs F book, read it, read again and then proceed.

-- Knowledge and experience equals Wisdom, Michael Frankowski

View bbrown's profile

bbrown

173 posts in 3017 days


#10 posted 01-20-2016 01:58 AM

I have found that BLO really darkens walnut. Personally, I would not want it any darker and would probably not use BLO again for walnut. However, I use it for cherry and love it with figured maple. For mahog. I love potassium dichromate, which I thnk is by far the best way to pop the grain….but I digress.

I think that if I were you, I would (after the BLO which is a done deal) start with clear Zinsser shellac (called “Sealcoat” on the can, but it’s useful for all coats). Then I’d get a good feel for the colour that you have. Next, I would do a little trick that I find very useful for fine-tuning the colour: With successive coats of shellac, use amber Zinsser for a coat, see how you like the colour. If you want darker, do the next coat with amber Zinsser shellac. Each coat of amber will significantly darken the piece. When you get to the shade you like, just stop there. If you want more depth (chatoyance) and you have only done a few coats, just continue on with the clear shellac. You can even add tiny amounts of dye powder to the shellac if you want a specific change, say more reddish brown. “Honey Amber” is a wonderful dye to own – it looks good on almost all woods.
In short, by adding successive coats of either clear or tinted shellac, clear or amber, you can get almost exactly the final result you want, and you have a lot of control. I use a maroon scotch-brite pad every two coats, or even with every coat if I’m having a bad brushing day. You can apply almost as many coats of shellac as you want in one day. Apply the shellac with a good badger hair or other top end brush made for shellac (10-20$ typically).
I would not stain and not do any “top coat”. If it was another wood I might dye the wood after the BLO (a thin shellac coat first can even out the colour, but it’s not really necessary with dye). I never use pigment stains. If you want to lower the sheen, just rub it all down after a few days of cure time) with wax (Renaissance is the best IMO – high carnauba content & high $ to match) on 0000 steel wool. No need for more protection on a chandelier. If you insist on something tougher on top, use Waterlox Original. Very easy to work with and no leveling required. My friend Roger Bean introduced me to Waterlox. He rubs out with 400 grit after a week of cure.

Sorry this is so long – I got to rambling! Of course, this is just all my opinion, and what I have developed over many years of making mistakes. Hope it helps and good luck. Send a photo when you are done.

—Bill

-- Forest, Virginia ; Micah 6:8

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pintodeluxe

4858 posts in 2278 days


#11 posted 01-20-2016 04:02 AM

When you seal with shellac first, then stain… it is a glazing technique. The stain will not be as dark over a sealer like shellac. This is especially true if the Shellac is thick. I only use shellac before stain on blotch prone woods like cherry. You can do it, but experiment on scraps first with different cuts of shellac. I like a 1# cut or thinner.

Also, don’t sand the stain. There is no reason to sand the stain coat, and it can actually cause problems like inconsistent color at edges and corners.

Make sample boards and take them through each and every step!
This is the only way to know how the products will work, and how the finish will look.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

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