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How to get experience without hurting yourself ?

3K views 50 replies 26 participants last post by  miles125 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I am very "experienced" table saw operator as I read countless manuals on what not to do with a table saw. Nevertheless today I was ripping a wet board (you know the one that HD sells for fencing). The splitter deflected to the side and I had to stop midcut and fix it. Then stupid me I restarted the saw without pulling the stock out first. The saw did not like it and hurled the board at me.
Sure I will remember not to do that next time, but I wander how many more underwater stones are there. Is dodging wood pieces a necessary experience to memorize all dangers of working with a table saw ?
 
#2 ·
"Then stupid me I restarted the saw without pulling the stock out first."
You said it , no me.

When using any tool especially power tools being very careful and paying attention goes along way.
I do not think that using power tolls will every be 100% safe but paying attention makes using them much safer.

I ma glad that you did not get hurt.
Happy and safe new year.
 
#4 ·
I am very "experienced" table saw operator
No, you're not. A very experienced table saw operator would never turn on the saw with a partially cut board around the blade, especially after he already had to stop the cut for whatever reason.

Unfortunately, experience is sometimes the only way to learn "what not to do" on a table saw. Hopefully you won't get hurt.
Getting boards thrown at you by the saw is generally an indication of doing something very wrong.

You can read everything you can find, and you still won't learn everything there is to learn.
 
#7 ·
Sounds like you are getting more "experienced" every day. We all make mistakes. One of the most important rules with most stationary power tools is to stand aside the work piece. Kickbacks are, eventually, inevitable. the idea is to avoid them as much as possible, and, when they occur, don't be in the way. Some years ago, I had a two foot square piece of 1/4 plywood kick back and hit me in the stomach. Made a nice bruise. It wasn't a straight-line kickback, it rose above the blade and pivoted off the rip fence so even though I was not in line with the blade, it hit me anyway. Another time, a longer board went sailing past me and hit the shop door, making a nice mark on the door. This is one reason many of us will go to the bandsaw to rip odd shaped, green or potentially reactive pieces of lumber. Much safer.
 
#8 · (Edited by Moderator)
" Kickbacks are, eventually, inevitable."
I am not sure that this true.

Another important safety measure is to always hold very firmly the piece that you are cutting or working on as if you were expecting a kick back.

If you are expecting a kickback and if you are ready for it, most likely you will be able to control it.
I have a 3HP table saw and at time I could have had some serious problems with it but because I was ready , I was able to control the kick-backs and to safely shut the saw down.

In other words "pay attention to what you are doing"
Do not let anything distract you while you are using a power tool, any power tool.
A power tool is very much like a loaded gun,it is not a toy.
Know what you are doing, pay attention to your environment and handle it in safe manner at all time and you will be safe.
 
#9 ·
I have to agree with Bert. I literally cannot remember the last time I had a kickback on a table saw. But I tend to make sure the cut is always going to go the way I plan BEFORE I start the motor. Is the riving knife in place? Blade right height? Do I have a pushstick in my hand or very handy? Do I have room for support? Fence locked? There is more, but you get the picture. When I am as sure as I can be that I am safe, then I start. After a few years of this, these decisions only take a couple seconds, but I also still have all ten on my hands.

I did have one or two major kickbacks on my radial arm back in the late 70's early 80's. You tend to remember a piece of wood penetrating through the wood wall of your garage/shop as you just try to get your hands out of the way. Luckily I always stood to one side when I cut on that RAS.
 
#10 ·
I am very "experienced" table saw operator as I read countless manuals on what not to do with a table saw.
- Karamba
You don't get experience reading. It comes with using the equipment you are using…
The splitter deflected to the side and I had to stop midcut and fix it. Then stupid me I restarted the saw without pulling the stock out first. The saw did not like it and hurled the board at me.

- Karamba
Where are your dogs???? With the splitter properly set up and in place, they should have stopped the kick back.

With the adventure you just had, you gained valuable experience that hopefully will now be imprinted into your memory bank next time you turn on your saw. Work safely, otherwise your hands will look like mine….... Jerry (in Tucson)
 
#11 ·
Two points,
First, I have mentioned this on here before. When I was younger an old fellow worker once told me "Machinery, all machinery, is very very patient it will wait and wait and one day when you least expect it when your mind is wandering or something startles you IT WILL GET YOU.
So to this I add remember the chorus to this old song; - -

"Keep your mind on your driving, keep your hands on the wheel, keep your snoopy eyes on the road ahead"

Oh yea also reading everything on a subject does not make you an expert only hands on experience can do that and experience includes making mistakes. Hopefully your mistakes will only be small ones.

And to b2rtch - I have been running a table saw since I was about 11 years old I'm now 64 and I too often bragged that I never had an accident with it citing that I always operated it safely. Well a few years back my patient table saw nipped the tip of my left thumb nothing major, no hospital no stitches, but they do wake up now and then just to wake you up and keep you honest.

MIKE
 
#12 · (Edited by Moderator)
" And to b2rtch - I have been running a table saw since I was about 11 years old I'm now 64 and I too often bragged that I never had an accident with it citing that I always operated it safely. Well a few years back my patient table saw nipped the tip of my left thumb nothing major, no hospital no stitches, but they do wake up now and then just to wake you up and keep you honest."

On my left hand, I have two fingers missing at the first joint.
This is due to piece a steel embedded in the wood while I was using a big wood shaper.
At the time(about 50 years ago) I did not even knew about metal detectors.
Properly used by attentive and experienced operators , power tools are not dangerous, just like a car or like a gun.
We, the operators, take stupid risks and sometime we pay for them.
 
#14 · (Edited by Moderator)
Guns themselves are not dangerous. They are inanimate objects made of metal, plastic, or wood. Guns, cars, motorcycles, bicycles, knives, chainsaws, etc., in the hands of irresponsible or careless people are dangerous. My observation of 68 years.
As for the tile of this thread, the best was to avoid accidents would be to read the forum about the experiences of others. Good info on what to do and what not to do. Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread and others like it.
 
#15 ·
I am very "experienced" table saw operator you said and "Then stupid me I restarted the saw without pulling the stock out first.". Total incongruence. You might be a "paper experienced saw user", but real life is different. So today you learned from experience. If you were an experienced TS operator, you would not have left the piece in place. Lesson learned and glad you did not get hurt. Experience comes from practice not only from books.
Happy new safe year
 
#16 ·
Like many things in life we seem to learn best from our "near-misses". Commit it to memory and don't do it again. With time you'll develop a keen internal alarm system as you approach any tool. If something seems "iffy", stop and think about it including alternative ways to do it. As for the table saw's mission to one day hurt you, probably not a bad philosophy to keep in mind. Complacency/comfort was a factor in many of my mishaps.
 
#17 · (Edited by Moderator)
Some good points here but one thing I don't see is not to stand in the path of kick backs and obviously don't restart your saw while it's engaging in the blade. I have a different take on the Table saws,cars and guns and more not being unsafe,they are indeed unsafe once mixed with the human element(the nut behind the wheel).
When I hear folks say you don't need a Saw Stop ,I agree,you only need one when you make a serious mistake.So I guess when we say we don't need one were saying you will never make that kind of mistake? Unfortunately I've read a good number of post with the person posting saying they thought the same thing given the had 10,20,30 years of using a table saw,but there posting about the injury the just sustained by doing something stupid and now their buying a Saw Stop. This is why when my students ask about what table saw to buy ,I say Saw Stop if you can fit it in your budget. I know there are those that didn't like Dr. Gass trying to get a law passed to incorporate his safety devise in all new table saws. I say so what! If it can save you from injury I don't care if Hitler invented it. In case you wonder,I don't own one ,but I wish I did,because there's always the possibility just one day I may join the club of doing something stupid,even though I've been using a table saw 30 plus years. So to quote dirty Harry" do you feel lucky--" Happy new year.
 
#19 · (Edited by Moderator)
" Kickbacks are, eventually, inevitable."
I am not sure that this true.

Another important safety measure is to always hold very firmly the piece that you are cutting or working on as if you were expecting a kick back.

If you are expecting a kickback and if you are ready for it, most likely you will be able to control it.
I have a 3HP table saw and at time I could have had some serious problems with it but because I was ready , I was able to control the kick-backs and to safely shut the saw down.

P.S. Stupid may be too unkind a word to use. Maybe better to say "thoughtless" or "not thinking clearly".

In other words "pay attention to what you are doing"
Do not let anything distract you while you are using a power tool, any power tool.
A power tool is very much like a loaded gun,it is not a toy.
Know what you are doing, pay attention to your environment and handle it in safe manner at all time and you will be safe.

- b2rtch
Bert; I completely agree with you. I am 81 and have been using power tools for around 65 years. I've made mistakes, but thank God they were minor. I've learned from my mistakes. I follow the same thoughts you have. Accidents are caused by STUPIDITY and not thinking about what you are doing. Machines MUST be set up to properly work. Not doing so is also a sign of stupidity. Bottom line is: STUPID PEOPLE SHOULD NOT USE DANGEROUS POWER TOOLS, FIREARMS OR DRIVE CARS.
P.S." Stupid" may be too strong a word to use. Maybe "thoughtlessness, not thinking clearly or distracted" would sound better. I don't want to start the new year by offending anyone.
 
#20 ·
Someone once said that wisdom is knowledge learned from mistakes. I'm thinking that experience is pretty much the same way.

Will Roger said, "There are those that learned by being told. Those that learn by being shown. Then there always that one poor fool who only learns by peeing on the electric fence."

The secret is learning from your mistakes.
 
#22 ·
Experience is no protection against doing stupid things. It helps, obviously so that you at least know what is and isn't dangerous to do. But no one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes. Hopefully the mistakes you make are minor and don't cost you your fingers.

In many things, it's actually the more experienced person that make the mistakes, because they get complacent.

I think most people do dumb things while learning. It usually causes little or no harm, but gets our attention. Over the years, all those little mistakes and near misses become experience.

And, as with working with any inherently dangerous machine, slow down and think about what you are doing.
 
#23 · (Edited by Moderator)
" Kickbacks are, eventually, inevitable."
I am not sure that this true.

Another important safety measure is to always hold very firmly the piece that you are cutting or working on as if you were expecting a kick back.

  • "If you are expecting a kickback and if you are ready for it, most likely you will be able to control it.
    I have a 3HP table saw and at time I could have had some serious problems with it but because I was ready , I was able to control the kick-backs and to safely shut the saw down".

In other words "pay attention to what you are doing"
Do not let anything distract you while you are using a power tool, any power tool.
A power tool is very much like a loaded gun,it is not a toy.
Know what you are doing, pay attention to your environment and handle it in safe manner at all time and you will be safe.

- b2rtch
^I agree with this.^

Experience IS
knowing/sensing when a kickback is getting ready to happen, and knowing what to do to prevent it.
I don't believe standing to the side is the answer. You should always stand where you are most comfortable making a cut. Standing to the side (on certain cuts) can be uncomfortable and raise the risk of an actual kickback or worst an accident. If your making the cuts properly, and know what you are doing, there is no risk of kickback, therefore no reason to stand to the side.
KICKBACKS are Human Error,

THE ABOVE IS MY OPINION, I ALWAYS SAY TO EACH THEIR OWN, DO WHAT EVER MAKES YOU FEEL SAFE
 
#24 ·
Guys
Doesn't experience mean that you've been there done that? So if it hasn't happen to you how would you know your about to have a kick back? As you noted Jbay we differ in opinion on this one. I believe if you still have full control of what your doing why not stand out of the way,unless your stature or some physical problem prohibits it. There's always exceptions as to what to do or not do,Standing to the side does not work for 100% of the operations on a table saw.
Like you said,we all have to do it our own way.

From Wikipedia.
Experience is the knowledge or mastery of an event or subject gained through involvement in or exposure to .
 
#26 · (Edited by Moderator)
"Guys Doesn't experience mean that you've been there done that? So if it hasn't happen to you how would you know your about to have a kick back?"

A1Jim, being blocked by you, I understand the negativity and that's OK

I don't have to cut off my fingers to know that's what will happen if I stick my hand in the saw.
Your a teacher Jim, teach your students how to tell, and prevent it. You don't learn how to recognize your going to have a kickback, you learn how to recognize there is about to be a problem completing the cut, a problem that could lead to any kind of an accident, not just a kickback.
Knowing the signs of a problem coming will save the accident or kickback. You learn to notice the wood starting to come off the fence, you learn to notice the pitch of the saw changing, the wood slowing down as your pushing, the wood chattering or to smell the wood burning. You learn to notice a knot approaching the saw blade or a harder looking pc of wood that maybe you need to slow down the pushing a little. Of course the experience of it happening will serve you as better taught, but going into a situation knowing the signs before it happens might just save you without having to gain experience the old school way.
The above IS Experience, how you gain it is up to you. You being a teacher Jim, at least has the advantage to directly pass on the knowledge to others. As for others I can't say how to gain that experience. I know that being self taught, I learned everything at the school of hard knocks. There was no internet or youtube to help.

Edit: Also, no one has answered this: How many kickbacks are human error /and or were preventable?
 
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