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Forum topic by Tim posted 01-11-2010 01:14 AM 3238 views 1 time favorited 18 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Tim

34 posts in 2677 days


01-11-2010 01:14 AM

Hey everyone,

I joined about 6 months ago when I was about to close on my first house, which fell through… as did the second. Mid November I finally closed on house number 3 and I’m ready to assemble my “shop”.

To give you some basic ideas about where I’m at, what I’m working with and what I want to accomplish, I’ll start here.

My shop needs to be 3 things, a shop for my chopper, a wood working shop and a garage for my truck when I have to fly out of town. I have a 2 car garage (22’l x 19’w) to work with and stow typical items like a lawn mower and yard tools. I have a layout envisioned already, which I worked out while off the coast of Congo, Africa for the last 6 weeks.

So, my thoughts are half of the garage is for my bike, cabinets, tool storage and work space for the bike. The other half will be for wood working and parking my truck in when I need to.

My plan has always been to build my own furniture once I bought my own place and I’m ready to get cracking.

Table Saw – I’m ready to pull the trigger on the Craftsman 21829. I love that it’s stow able when I need the space, is belt drive, has the sliding miter table along with a build in router table. It felt pretty solid for a portable machine. Seems like a lot of machine for the money. I was actually at Sears a few hours ago to see it in person, as well as the table saw 21833, but I’m concerned about room with this saw. Input, suggestions and feedback is encouraged here.

I’m also thinking planer, jointer, and router. Keep in mind I’m totally new to wood working but I read a magazine that said buying rough cut would is much cheaper and the tools needed to finish the wood will pay for themselves after a few good sized projects.. I know little things like blades and bits will add up quickly as well as jigs and what not.

So, pretend you have essentially a 1-1.5 car garage and a budget of roughly $1000 to get started with, maybe up to $1500. What tools should I start off with and which would you recommend on my budget and work space?

Thanks everyone, I look forward to your input, expertise and advice.

regards,

Tim

-- Tim - Austin, TX


18 replies so far

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7216 posts in 2841 days


#1 posted 01-11-2010 01:46 AM

Hi Tim – The TS is the heart and soul of many shops, so is a good place to put a disproportionate amount of research and budget. The 21829 is made by Ryobi, and is essentially an evolution of the former Ryobi BT3100 with a router table on a stow away base. It’s got some unique features and many fans, but I’d like to offer that it’s not for everyone. It’s lightweight is not an asset when cutting bigger pieces, and I personally prefer a larger table surface…especially in front of the blade. It is belt drive, but it uses a universal motor, which is quite a bit louder than an induction motor, and typically not as robust. Many folks who buy portable saws to use in a home shop, buy them with the intent of stowing them out of the way when not in use…over time, many end up just leaving them setup for conveniences, so they essentially take the form of a stationary saw, but with none of the benefits of a true full size stationary saw. You’re also more likely to outgrow a smaller saw early on… The full size saws have several advantages, and can be easily rolled around the shop on a mobile base. The hybrid type designs move the motor inside the enclosure so they really don’t take up a ton more real estate. If you don’t need the portability, I’d suggest you give some serious consideration to a full size saw. Food for thought. In addition to the 21833, you might find a closeout on the 22124 also look into the Ridgid R4511, Jet Worhshop or Proshop, Steel City 35920 or 35930, GI 50-240GT, Grizzly G0661, or Hitachi C10FL. If your shop has 220v available, I’d without question look into one of the super deals on a full 3hp industrial cabinet saw from Grizzly, like this Shop Fox W1677 for $795 ($889 shipped).

A router (or two) are among the most versatile tools you can own. One for hand use and one for table use is very convenient. For hand use, lightweight, good balance, and a good feel in your hands is important. For table use, power, variable speed, and above table features are handy. You can often build a router table into the end your TS, which is a good space saver. Get a router(s) with the option of a 1/2” collet, and buy bits with 1/2” shanks whenever possible. There’s no shortage of really good routers…pick what you like from Milwaukee, Freud, Bosch, PC, Hitachi, Makita, DeWalt, Triton, and Craftsman, among others.

Good quality blades and cutters are important…the tools can’t do any better than the cutters.

A decent work surface is as important as any tool…even a couple of sheets of plywood on saw horse can suffice until you’re setup to get or build a nice workbench (great early project!). I use my workbench as an outfeed table for my TS.

A planer and jointer are great in tandem…the jointer flattens a face, and an adjacent edge, while the planer makes the opposite side parallel to the reference face that you flatten with the jointer. To start, I’d suggest the planer first, because with the help of a planer sled you can coax the planer into flattening the initial reference face. You can also do edge jointing with the router, TS, or handplane until you can acquire a jointer later on.

A bandsaw is handy for resawing and curves, but a jigsaw is can also cut curves. A drill press is handy too, but a decent drill will suffice early on.

Below is a floor plan of my layout in a 2 car garage, of which I’m alotted a little less than half of (~ 12’x20’ is shown):

Good luck and be safe.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View drfixit's profile

drfixit

318 posts in 2609 days


#2 posted 01-11-2010 02:08 AM

Most of my shop is outfitted with tools from pawn shops, and craigslist Do your research and you can get alot of good deals out there. I agree that the table saw is one of, if not the most important tools you will need. I personally like Ridgid brand tools, they are well built, reasonably priced and carry an unbeatable warranity.

-- I GIVE UP!!!! I've cut this @!&*!% board 3 times.... its still too short!

View thiel's profile

thiel

374 posts in 2757 days


#3 posted 01-11-2010 02:31 AM

I guess I’d add two things to what’s been said already:

—Don’t underestimate the kind of value you can get by buying a used tablesaw. To do any good work you’ll have to “tune” even a new saw, which is most of the work of “tuning up” an old one.

—Even huge tools can move out of the way of your truck quite easily if you mount them on mobile bases. I have a Grizzly 1023 and it rolls away nicely.

I second the advice that a plunge router kit should be second (only) to the tablesaw. The router is super versatile.

And don’t forget some chisels :-)

-- Laziness minus Apathy equals Efficiency

View Tim's profile

Tim

34 posts in 2677 days


#4 posted 01-11-2010 02:44 AM

Thanks guys.

And to give you all a laugh, I’m on craigslist right now, after reading knotscott’s reply, and found a craftsman 22124 on there for $900. Did a quick google search on that model and realize the guy is basically asking for the retail price of this saw. One review here put that saw at $890. I think I’ll drop an email, with that link/review here and ask what is best price will be. I was hoping to stay in the $500-600 range on a good TS.

-- Tim - Austin, TX

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7216 posts in 2841 days


#5 posted 01-11-2010 02:56 AM

$500-$600 would be a fair price for a used 22124, and that’s about what I’d offer. Even if it’s brand new, you’ve lost the return options and support of the retailer.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View WhittleMeThis's profile

WhittleMeThis

125 posts in 2838 days


#6 posted 01-11-2010 02:57 AM

Buy used, if you take your time you will find some great deals on tools that were hardly used, a ton of folks start with grand intentions, buy a bunch of tools and realize later, that they don’t have the time or desire. So you can scope up some hardly used tools at great prices.

Try this search engine for craigs list http://www.searchtempest.com/

View bigfish_95008's profile

bigfish_95008

250 posts in 2569 days


#7 posted 01-11-2010 02:59 AM

You need to keep everything mobile if you REALLY plan to keep the truck in there. Craigslist!!!

-- bigfish "I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it." Vincent Van Gogh

View dfarr's profile

dfarr

19 posts in 2897 days


#8 posted 01-11-2010 03:00 AM

One of the best space saving items I’ve got in my garage/workshop is the portable torsion beam work bench I built from plans in Fine Woodworking #202. It provides 2’ x 8’ of work surface, sets up and breaks down in seconds and stows away on a couple of shelf brackets when not in use. Mine has Homasote on one side to prevent marring/scratching and 1/4” Masonite on the other side when a flat smooth surface is needed. I set mine up on two foldable sawhorses. The fact that I put it away when I’m done eliminates the constant clutter issue I seem to have with all my other flat work spaces. I can post pictures if anyone’s interested. The link to the article is below.

www.finewoodworking.com/ProjectsAndDesign/ProjectsAndDesignPDF.aspx?id=31729

View Tim's profile

Tim

34 posts in 2677 days


#9 posted 01-11-2010 03:17 AM

Well, I’m pretty convinced now that a portable TS is out now, almost. I think if I can find a mobile base for one, I’ll be able to live with it. I figure I can roll it to the bike side of the garage when the truck needs to go in.

Scott, i do have a full size drill press already. I bought that back when I was big into off roading and building bumpers and such.

The tools I do have now are drills, drill press, zawsaw, jig saw, bench top belt/disc sander, some decent wood chisels, dremel tool and a roto-zip (I love that thing).

dfarr, I like that bench!

I had a buddy recommend a Porter Cable router with the 2 bases, any thoughts on this router set-up?

My first planned project is a work bench and cabinets so I can get the garage organized. I need that squared away before I can even think about building any furniture.

-- Tim - Austin, TX

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7216 posts in 2841 days


#10 posted 01-11-2010 03:34 AM

PC makes some good routers, but for hand use, it’s really important that it feels right to your hands. The only hesitation I might have for getting a new PC router is that Stanley Toolworks bought B&D within the past year, which includes PC. They appear to be repositioning the PC brand a little bit, so I’d be on the lookout for quality downgrades.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Tim's profile

Tim

34 posts in 2677 days


#11 posted 01-11-2010 05:37 AM

OK, I’m leaning HEAVILY towards the 21833, I think I can snag one for just over $380 + tax with their 10% plus the craftsman club discount and a coupon code I found on LJ.

Now, I figure roughly $400 for the TS, that leaves me $600-900 for additional tools to get a good set-up started. Any recommendations for a planer and a jointer?

I think I’ll head out tomorrow and hit Lowes and HD to check out routers.

-- Tim - Austin, TX

View dmorgantx's profile

dmorgantx

70 posts in 2548 days


#12 posted 01-11-2010 06:07 AM

I think you’ll be disappointed with a portable. Can’t say it enough. You may be able to get it cheap- but you’ll be wanting to upgrade very soon. Take it from all the pros around here…

View Tim's profile

Tim

34 posts in 2677 days


#13 posted 01-11-2010 06:23 AM

The 21833 isn’t a portable, bit it does have retractable wheels for moving it around. I just ordered it for $414 and should pick it up tomorrow. I took all of your advice, as dmorgantx put it, from the experts… which is exactly why I’m here.

Now it’s on to what else I’ll need to get off to a good start. :)

-- Tim - Austin, TX

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7216 posts in 2841 days


#14 posted 01-11-2010 07:35 AM

Tim – Congrats on your new saw…sounds like you got a nice deal. To maximize the results from your investment, you’re going to want to get a decent blade (or two) to replace the stock blade. Good alignment and blade selection the key factors that determine the final performance of you saw.

You don’t need to spend $100 to get a decent blade (but it does improve your odds of getting a good one), there are some good general purpose combo blades in the $30-$50 range like the Freud LU86R010, Freud Avanti TK306, TK906, Freud Diablo D1040, Diablo D1050, CMT 256.050.10, CMT 251.042.10, CMT P10050, Ridgid Titanium R1050 (by Freud), Craftsman 32808, 32809, 32810, 32864 (by Freud), and the DeWalt “Precision Trim” DW7140PT, DW7150PT, to name a few.

If you’d prefer to use separate task specific blades, you’ll likely want a 60T to 80T crosscut blade (for TS), and a 24T-30T rip blade.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Tim's profile

Tim

34 posts in 2677 days


#15 posted 01-11-2010 04:06 PM

Thanks Scott, I’m getting excited about the saw, not too much about the assembly. The reviews seem to be all positive AFTER the saw assembly.

As far as blades, I’ll spend the money for a high quality blade that will produce high quality cuts and will last. A friend at work had the Nov 2009 issue of WOOD magazine, luckily, and had a blade review article. I snapped a picture of that page and here is what they recommended as a top pick…

Crosscut – Irwin Classic 15370 60T
GP – Freud Diablo D1040X

Any thoughts on these blades?

So, the table saw has been chosen, what would be next on your essentials list for a wood working starters list?

By the way, all of you guys ROCK!! Thanks for taking the time to help.

-- Tim - Austin, TX

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