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Help with Dust Collection

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Forum topic by Ben posted 12-14-2015 12:44 AM 1050 views 0 times favorited 25 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Ben

267 posts in 2319 days


12-14-2015 12:44 AM

So, currently I have NO dust collection.
Jointer and planer spewing everywhere. Sanding dust covering everything.
Really not a great situation.
I want up wading through shavings, and coughing on fine dust.

So, I’m ready to invest in a system, just have no idea what to get.

I am willing to build a small shed outside the shop to house a bigger cyclone unit. In fact I almost have to put whatever I get outside, as the inside is already overly crowded.

So the first big question is do I get a cyclone, or a regular bagged collector? I’m willing to spend around $1,000 (I’d probably buy used).

Is a cyclone worth the extra money?

For machines, I have:

16” planer
16” jointer (not too concerned about collecting dust from here.)
30” bandsaw
State Oscillating Spindle Sander (must be hard to collect the dust from this)
Chop Saw
Table Saw
Two lathes
Shaper
Orbital Sander

I’m most interested in collecting dust from sanding, and from the planer.

Thanks for any suggestions!


25 replies so far

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

4997 posts in 3125 days


#1 posted 12-14-2015 12:54 AM

I see you are in Western MA where you have real winters, so unless you put in a system with return/make-up air, you’ll probably need to put whatever you do inside. Otherwise you will be exhausting your conditioned shop air to the outside.

I think cyclones are worth the money … just sold my Jet/Oneida dual stage system and installed a Laguna 2hp (about $1350 on sale at Woodcraft).

If you go with a collector with felt bag, make sure it is a good quality bag. Some machines are sold with bags that only catch down to 30 microns which blows a lot of fines right back into the air … and your lungs if the DC is in the shop.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Holbs's profile

Holbs

1372 posts in 1491 days


#2 posted 12-14-2015 06:50 AM

A craigslist / local auction has plenty of 3HP dual bag dust collectors for $150-$250.
This leaves you funds for 6” HVAC / PVC piping and connections.
$300-$400 for dual Wynn filters.
Can build your own blast gates or purchase your own.
Thein baffle would be a good idea as well.
I’ve never owned a cyclone so can not compare end results of dust collection versus standard DC’s.
You did say you wanted to stay under $1,000….

-- Yes, my profile picture is of a Carpenter Bee! The name is derived from the Ancient Greek "wood-cutter"

View SawSucker's profile

SawSucker

110 posts in 390 days


#3 posted 12-14-2015 01:34 PM


I see you are in Western MA where you have real winters, so unless you put in a system with return/make-up air, you ll probably need to put whatever you do inside. Otherwise you will be exhausting your conditioned shop air to the outside.
If you go with a collector with felt bag, make sure it is a good quality bag. Some machines are sold with bags that only catch down to 30 microns which blows a lot of fines right back into the air … and your lungs if the DC is in the shop.
- TheDane

I agree with the placement of the DC, but even a dust collector with the finest filtration is not going to save you from having to wear some type of dust mask. In my opinion to insinuate that dust collection is related to health is a bit misleading, and just a sales pitch.

View AandCstyle's profile

AandCstyle

2566 posts in 1719 days


#4 posted 12-14-2015 01:35 PM

Ben, the tubing and fittings for the dust collection system can cost as much as or more than the actual dust collector. The effectiveness of either bag or cyclones is greatly impacted by the installation. Whichever way you decide to go, spend the time designing your system. Try to locate your DC close to the center of the machines that produce the most dust/chips to keep the runs as short as possible.

-- Art

View CincyRW's profile

CincyRW

156 posts in 1112 days


#5 posted 12-14-2015 02:50 PM

1. Billpenz.com – to get you overwhelmed with dust collection “basics”. There’s good information there to get you thinking about questions only “you” can answer regarding machines, length of ductwork, pressure drop, etc. This can be pretty technical stuff.
2. I recommend paying attention to the fine particles. As others have said, a DC system AND respiratory protection is your best bet.
3. Like you, I had nothing. I bought a small roll around DC (which is fine since I have a tiny shop) that I hook up where needed. I also use a shop vac with a dust deputy for smaller tools – what a world of difference just those 2 things made for me.

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

693 posts in 686 days


#6 posted 12-14-2015 03:13 PM

I would say to get the largest hp and ducting you can afford.
3hp and 6” ducting is the minimum, especially with the tools you have.

The budget you gave is going to be tight but if you buy used, that will help because like Art said, all the accessories will cost as much or more than the actual dust collection unit.

Also, the dust collection ports and setup of most tools are not designed for the best efficiency so you will have to modify your tools. The best dust collection setup is to collect at the tool, so unless you can get the proper airflow, you will have dust escaping into the air and into your lungs.

Dust collection, to where you don’t need a respirator or mask is possible unlike some people say. It’s been a reality for a long, long time in production shops but the problem is, it’s at a cost. It’s not cheap so it comes down to what you want from it and what you’re willing to pay.

View SawSucker's profile

SawSucker

110 posts in 390 days


#7 posted 12-14-2015 03:18 PM


Dust collection, to where you don t need a respirator or mask is possible unlike some people say.
- AZWoody

So your saying that you can get every spec of dust from every machine, or even when hand sanding in your shop ? Your dreaming.

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

693 posts in 686 days


#8 posted 12-14-2015 03:27 PM

Dust collection, to where you don t need a respirator or mask is possible unlike some people say.
- AZWoody

So your saying that you can get every spec of dust from every machine, or even when hand sanding in your shop ? Your dreaming.

- SawSucker

Did I say every speck? I said to where you do not need a respirator. There’s a point where the health risks are diminished. There are actual health standards that are set that will layout guidelines on particulate counts but maybe you’ve never heard of OSHA. I think that OSHA actually over reaches and sets the bar beyond what’s needed yet commercial shops somehow seem to pass the standards or they’d be shut down.

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2190 posts in 942 days


#9 posted 12-14-2015 03:32 PM

Ben,

I agree with TheDane re: outside venting. Definitely something to consider especially if your shop is small.
However, if you can put the DC outside, then you don’t need a bag or filter. This will increase performance significantly. If you do elect to keep it inside, def ungrade to cannister filter.

Cyclone vs. bag: I put in a cyclone when I redid my system after a shop expansion and have never regretted it.
I vent outside so the only advantage for me is the convenience of emptying shavings especially when doing a large amount of milling. Cyclones degrade CFM’s so keep that in mind. I have the Super Dust Deputy and it works fine with a 1 1/2HP blower. I think venting outside makes up the difference.

IMO if you’re going to build a system then you might as well collect every machine. A jointer can produce a lot of shavings when you’re face jointing.

Collecting shavings is one thing and collecting dust is another. The Pentz conformant systems are designed for both this is why the CFM’s need to be high.

CincyRW brings up an important point. Many of us are mostly interested in shavings collectors, not true dust collectors. If you want to have a system capable of true dust collection, you are looking at spending much more money.

For sanding I would say use a standard shop vac with a HEPA filter for a ROS.

For most any sanding job, I would rely on personal protection (respirator), not a DC system.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View SawSucker's profile

SawSucker

110 posts in 390 days


#10 posted 12-14-2015 03:36 PM

Maybe you ve never heard of OSHA.
- AZWoody

I’m fully aware of OSHA, I was a meat cutter for 17 years. And I’ve been mostly a hobbyist woodworker for about 30 years, the last 10 years with a heavy focus on dust collection improvements. Your not going to BS me.

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

688 posts in 849 days


#11 posted 12-14-2015 03:38 PM

Woody, Just Ignore Mr. Sawsucker. He’s just here to complain. He keeps saying he’s leaving but like a bad penny…

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

693 posts in 686 days


#12 posted 12-14-2015 03:42 PM


Maybe you ve never heard of OSHA.
- AZWoody

I m fully aware of OSHA, I was a meat cutter for 17 years. And I ve been mostly a hobbyist woodworker for about 30 years, the last 10 years with a heavy focus on dust collection improvements. Your not going to BS me.

- SawSucker

You don’t have to worry about replying to any other things i post here or pm me anymore. I’m going to finally just block you as you really have nothing to contribute, only just try to argue on here.
For someone who’s been focusing on dust collection for 10 years, I would think you’d have some facts or numbers to contribute yet you never do. Many people have patiently even asked you to try to back up your statements to be a part of the community but all you do is threaten to leave this forum.

So, I have to ask…why haven’t you? You don’t have to answer as I won’t be able to see any of your replies though. Good luck Sam, say hi to Alice for me.

View SawSucker's profile

SawSucker

110 posts in 390 days


#13 posted 12-14-2015 04:07 PM


You don t have to worry about replying to any other things i post here or pm me anymore. I m going to finally just block you as you really have nothing to contribute, only just try to argue on here.
For someone who s been focusing on dust collection for 10 years, I would think you d have some facts or numbers to contribute yet you never do. Many people have patiently even asked you to try to back up your statements to be a part of the community but all you do is threaten to leave this forum.

So, I have to ask…why haven t you? You don t have to answer as I won t be able to see any of your replies though. Good luck Sam, say hi to Alice for me.
- AZWoody


Whats wrong ? Can’t handle being proven wrong ? I only give out information that I’m comfortable with giving. If it’s not worth my time, I don’t give it, I don’t owe anyone anything, plain and simple. I’m not a paid employee of LJ’s. Sam and Alice ? Yeah, ok. Whoever they are.

View bkseitz's profile

bkseitz

294 posts in 772 days


#14 posted 12-14-2015 04:33 PM

@Ben, I’m no expert on the topic yet, but have some background. I’m currently I process of building out a system for myself similar to yourself, but my woodworking in not a constant activity.

Contractor Saw with a dust collector guard
Planer
Jointer
Drill press
Radial Arm Saw
Large Lath
Spindle Sander
Belt/Disk Sander
Two Router tables (one in progress)
homemade—not working well at all—downdraft table
Band Saw—to be assembled after xmas
1HP Rigid DC—acts more like a chip collector

I originally purchased the Rigid with 2.5” clear ducting thinking it would work out given I only operate one machine at a time. It collects chips very well however, it uses a bag which I found out later made the situation worse (5 micron partials or smaller leak out and are much worse for you than the chips you find covering the floor). So in essence I have a dust distributor.

This year I spent a lot of time looking at what is on the market and what I could build. I came to the conclusion that one of the numerous Harbor Freight 2HP Modification solutions would work for me. I am currently in process of building out, so I don’t have any data to share yet.

The solution I’m building out is similar to Steve Emmon’s (YouTube Video). I’ll have a HF DC blower attached to a Super Dust Deputy and Win 35a Filter. All of this will be connected to main trunk of 6” ducting hanging from the ceiling stepped down to 4” flex tubing the last few feet. I’ll be venting inside so I don’t loose heat in the winter as I’m in a metal barn for a shop so that’s a concern. After talking to various people about the approach—some on LJ and some elsewhere—it looks to be in range for how I’ll operate.

If this doesn’t work my next upgrade would be to replace the HF DC system with a ClearVu Cylcone. That’s about 3-5HP collector running 220v (major electrical upgrade to the shop). The ducting would stay the same. Most of the YouTube celebrities have been touting the ClearVu and the data Bill Pentz has published suggest that’s the sweet spot for DC. However, you’ll be exceeding your budget before shipping and taxes.

Once I’ve completed the HF build and operate it for a little while I’ll post a blog and video on it.

—Hope this helps, all the best

-- bkseitz, Washington "if everything is going well, you've obviously overlooked something"

View SawSucker's profile

SawSucker

110 posts in 390 days


#15 posted 12-14-2015 06:19 PM

I ll have a HF DC blower attached to a Super Dust Deputy and Win 35a Filter. All of this will be connected to main trunk of 6” ducting hanging from the ceiling stepped down to 4” flex tubing the last few feet. After talking to various people about the approach—some on LJ and some elsewhere—it looks to be in range for how I ll operate. Once I ve completed the HF build and operate it for a little while I ll post a blog and video on it.
- bkseitz

As I’ve said before, I really don’t see this working very well.

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