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Forum topic by drcodfish posted 12-13-2015 01:19 AM 1529 views 0 times favorited 29 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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drcodfish

118 posts in 413 days


12-13-2015 01:19 AM

Hello finishing experts, I need some advice.

I am making a few boxes with 1/2” QS White Oak, mock up:

Plenty of work left to do but I would like to achieve a dark mission oak finish. (Stain, shellac, glaze, and then sealer) I have Trans tint Dark Oak and Transtint Red oak stains. My question is this: Should I stain the boards once I have them cut and sanded but before I assemble the box, or should the box be completely assembled and then begin the finishing steps (including staining)?

-- Dr C


29 replies so far

View Randy_ATX's profile

Randy_ATX

835 posts in 1902 days


#1 posted 12-13-2015 01:46 AM

Assemble, stain, finish.
Looks good and I’d sand the burn out of the cross cut before finishing.

-- Randy -- Austin, TX by way of Northwest (Woodville), OH

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conifur

955 posts in 612 days


#2 posted 12-13-2015 01:59 AM

That is a tuff question, I do alot of q sawn oak mission style and stained dyed. I spend more time on finishing then the whole project, most time finish b4 final assemble, since I dont spray. A box is another quantry, to say the least, I think if you want the finish to be perfect, inside and out finish b4 assembly.

-- Knowledge and experience equals Wisdom, Michael Frankowski

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firefighterontheside

13448 posts in 1317 days


#3 posted 12-13-2015 02:04 AM

Personally the only thing I would ever finish before assembly is something I’ll take apart again. Finishing pieces that you’ll need to,glue together is difficult. How can you get finish right where you need it, but not get it in the areas you need to glue.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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conifur

955 posts in 612 days


#4 posted 12-13-2015 02:38 AM

You tape or wax the glue areas so the finish does not contaminate the joint. If waxed then clean off the wax with MS.

-- Knowledge and experience equals Wisdom, Michael Frankowski

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Billy E

162 posts in 1541 days


#5 posted 12-13-2015 03:04 AM

It’s unavoidable that you’ll have to sand at least a little bit after assembly, so that means assemble first, then finish.

-- Billy, Florence SC

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ThomasChippendale

244 posts in 393 days


#6 posted 12-13-2015 03:48 AM

White or Red oak ?

-- PJ

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

4853 posts in 2274 days


#7 posted 12-13-2015 06:59 AM

Assemble first, then apply the finish. It takes too much time to mask off the areas to be glued when you prefinish.
I like high solid content stains like Rodda, Varathane, and Cabot for qs white oak.
If you start with the dark oak transtint, and shellac, followed by glaze and topcoat… I don’t think you’ll be happy with it. Usually that type of J. Jewitt finish is used with a golden honey colored dye, with a darker gel stain used as a glaze. That way there are multiple colors adding to the effect.

A dark dye with a dark glaze will actually minimize the figure in your white oak. A light honey color, or thinned red color dye looks better under a dark glaze. Ultimately you can make a sample board, and take it through each step including sanding and topcoat. That way there will be no surprises.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

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drcodfish

118 posts in 413 days


#8 posted 12-13-2015 07:03 AM

Randy; Yup, lots of sanding yet to do.

PJ; White oak, as mentioned in the original post.

My thinking was it would be a challenge to do a decent job of finishing on the inside once the box was assembled, however I am now considering lining the inside with cedar veneers which I scored form a friend who has a relative who works in small door/casing factory, so the quality of the interior finish won’t be an issue.

I guess with all the joints and angles I will need to spray the finishes rather than use a brush, aside from the gel/glaze.

-- Dr C

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drcodfish

118 posts in 413 days


#9 posted 12-13-2015 07:59 AM

Pinto:

Your suggestion is obvious, I don’t know why I didn’t figure this out on my own earlier. I have not tried this before (obvious I guess), so this kind of advice helps. I have trans tint reddish brown, and General Finishes Java gel stain. Do you think the reddish brown would be too dark to produce significant contrast with the Java Gel stain? Or should I get something like Honey Amber or Golden Brown dye for appropriate contrast with the Java Gel stain?

I like the reddish tone, maybe mixing a little of the reddish brown with amber would give me that red hue without being too dark?

-- Dr C

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daddywoofdawg

1010 posts in 1035 days


#10 posted 12-13-2015 09:33 AM

Sand the inside of your box,and stain the inside before assembly,much easier,then blue tape next to the joints in case of glue squeeze out.It’s a whole lot easier to remove the tape than scrape and sand the inside when assembled.

View ThomasChippendale's profile

ThomasChippendale

244 posts in 393 days


#11 posted 12-13-2015 02:12 PM

My take on nicely figured white oak is ammonia fuming. See here on a humidor built in a drawer lined with spanish cedar. This is only 2 hours of fuming, you can get as dark as you need with a full day fuming and it allows you to completely assemble and sand the box and it will get even colouring inside and out and brings out the rays like no other method. I seal with schelak and apply several coats of GF Endurovar.

Or here on a white oak door:

-- PJ

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

4853 posts in 2274 days


#12 posted 12-14-2015 05:25 PM

This is Brown Mohogany Transtint dye in a ratio of 1:1 with water, followed by Varathane Dark Walnut oil based stain. It looks really dark in person.
I think the Java is a little too dark for white oak, and will dominate the finish. But that is just my opinion, and sample boards will tell the whole story. If you do the shellac sealing step it might look alright, because less of the stain will absorb.

Good luck with it.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

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drcodfish

118 posts in 413 days


#13 posted 12-15-2015 07:16 AM

PJ: (My name is Paul Johnson by the way and I was PJ until I was a teenager) I have tried fuming. I fumed some boards last winter just using household ammonia for a little more than 24 hours. It worked way better than I expected, it did really showcase the rays but the wood was mostly grey and I didn’t have any idea of how to finish it. Your humidor looks great but I am after a darker finish.

Pinto, that is beautiful and looks like what I am after. But the box is such a small piece that I don’t think there will be enough wood to actually see the pattern of the rays as they appear in your drawer and leg. I am definitely going to finish a couple sample boards so I can get an idea of how this might work. You mentioned that you mixed with water, is there any specific reason that you used water instead of alcohol?

-- Dr C

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ThomasChippendale

244 posts in 393 days


#14 posted 12-15-2015 03:57 PM

Hi Paul, P stands for Pierre . Yes fuming will get a gray tone without the amber coloring you are probably after. Finishing is easy since the fuming color is more than skin deep. You can sand lightly and then finish with your favorite recipie, mine is Schelack followed by varnish. A spar varnish would probably give it the amber tone you are after or a orange schelack finish with a wax overcoat.

-- PJ

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

4853 posts in 2274 days


#15 posted 12-15-2015 05:02 PM

Hey Dr. C,
You do have a choice of water or alcohol when diluting Transtint dye. I use water because it gives you more working time, and is less likely to leave lap marks and streaks. If you decide on water, make sure to wet the project down to pre-raise the grain. Once dry, sand it back with very fine sandpaper before applying the dye.

Cheers

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

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