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A New "Flesh-Sensing" Table Saw Upgrade

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Forum topic by DavidWW posted 01-05-2010 11:53 PM 8507 views 1 time favorited 19 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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DavidWW

7 posts in 1759 days


01-05-2010 11:53 PM

Hello woodworkers! I have patents pending on a unique table saw upgrade that forms a major advance in both the health and safety aspects of this most important machine.

My goal is to work with major manufacturer(s) to bring this system to market ASAP to help reduce the appalling accident statistics regarding table saws. The more people who see this website the better, so please help by simply telling other woodworkers about us. Incidentally, I am NOT in favor of CPSC or the government mandating ANYTHING more for us regarding table saws. I envision a saw option product which can be purchased at the user’s discretion and will work toward that goal.

Please visit our website and view a few videos at http://www.whirlwindtool.com and help us spread the word about this remarkable Whirlwind system which, among other things, can stop the saw blade within 1 second after dangerous hand proximity is sensed.

I do welcome your feedback at the website, but as volume grows, I cannot guarantee that I can answer everyone. We also have a short video clip up on YouTube at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHajjMUrSOg so please check us out and wish us luck.

My best regards to all here and please work safely! —David


19 replies so far

View Jeison's profile

Jeison

947 posts in 1803 days


#1 posted 01-06-2010 12:41 AM

Interesting, obviously from the video it can brake the blade without damaging it like a sawstop (although the sawstop is faster) and has some nice dust collection features. I assume the sensors shut it down when your hand goes underneath the hood. I’m curious how difficult it is to retrofit a saw with this, and how much it would cost

-- - Jei, Rockford IL - When in doubt, spray it with WD-40 and wrap it with duct tape. The details will attend to themselves.

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reggiek

2240 posts in 1966 days


#2 posted 01-06-2010 12:56 AM

Very interesting idea and glad to see someone working on a way to bring all us non Saw Stop owners into the current level of safety technology. I can’t wait to see the product on the market. Hopefully you can keep the price in an area that makes it an alternative to upgrading your TS to a Saw Stop, without having to sacrifice quality. I bought my TS before the saw stop was available or I would have purchased one for sure. There is no way of valuing the cost of digits or what have you being removed or seriously injured in an accident. I wish you the best of luck getting this product to the market…there sure is a big need…I know quite a few woodworkers that are missing a digit or so….

Keep us up to date on progress….I would certainly be interested.

-- Woodworking.....My small slice of heaven!

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jockmike2

10635 posts in 2942 days


#3 posted 01-06-2010 02:16 AM

Having just lost a fingertip before Christmas this is extremely important to me. I too am anxious to see this product in action. Hopefully it can save someone else’s finger, it’s too late for mine. The guard is back on my saw now. Better late then never!!!!!!!1

-- (You just have to please the man in the Mirror) Mike from Michigan -

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Padre

930 posts in 2185 days


#4 posted 01-06-2010 02:18 AM

It is an interesting idea, but how many people run their saw with the guard on? Most saws I’ve seen the first thing that is removed is the guard.

-- Chip -----------http://www.penmanchip.com-----------------Micah 6:8

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gizmodyne

1763 posts in 2786 days


#5 posted 01-06-2010 02:54 AM

Can you run this for non-through cuts and dado cuts?

-- -John "Do I have to keep typing a smiley? Just assume it's a joke." www.flickr.com/photos/gizmodyne

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Scott Bryan

27251 posts in 2518 days


#6 posted 01-06-2010 03:27 AM

David, this is an interesting safety device. The one second stop seems a little long for me. This may work fine for inadvertent encroachment in the “no finger zone” but in the event where the fingers are actively pulled into the blade then I can’t see where this technology will be a great deal of help. And, as Giz points out, there are operations where the blade guard has to be removed. Does your product work in these instances.

But even if it only protects for rip cutting operations it would be a nice safety upgrade. I tend to be partial to all of my fingers and would hate to lose any of them. :)

-- Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful- Joshua Marine

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Jeison

947 posts in 1803 days


#7 posted 01-06-2010 04:09 AM

there were more videos on the main site – the system normally sits on the splitter, but something was mentioned about using it for non-through cuts, tho I didnt make it that far thru the vids so I’m not sure how that works.

I agree a TS can do ALOT of damage in 1 second, but its still better than nothing, which is what most non-sawstops get. I also like the extra lights and the stop button mounted on the guard itself, thats convienient.

-- - Jei, Rockford IL - When in doubt, spray it with WD-40 and wrap it with duct tape. The details will attend to themselves.

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8476 posts in 2344 days


#8 posted 01-06-2010 04:26 AM

very nice concept. and definitely a huge improvement to having nothing. also the dust collection capabilities are impressive to say the least! hope to see this getting picked up and developed full.

one thing though – the fact that the blade guard is locked in height. sometimes some work pieces are not uniform in height, and might get jammed under the guide. I think this future product would benefit quite a bit if it had a dynamic blade guard mechanism that would lift up and down on top of the work piece like all other guards do.

good luck. looks great so far!

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View DavidWW's profile

DavidWW

7 posts in 1759 days


#9 posted 01-06-2010 04:45 PM

Thank you folks for your kind words. Let me just clarify a few points. There is nothing yet for sale, these are prototype devices shown in the videos which were used to refine and prove the basic concept behind the pending patents. “Flesh sensing” table saw technology is a hot topic today, mostly for the wrong reasons—litigation! I hope to show that it is practical and in the best interest of all to explore further and offer reasonable solutions for those who are interested in such devices. The purpose of my post is to spread the word that these type systems are in the works, not only mine, but others as well and the machinery manufacturers should consider some of these devices as being worth developing. I developed this system over a period of time on a VERY THIN shoestring budget, imagine where an experienced manufacturer might go with this basic concept?
One second seems a long time to stop a blade—- BUT NOT if the operator also has a physical barrier preventing his or her hand from reaching the blade and a proximity trigger that reliably triggers the brake when the hand seems too close. A false trigger here serves as a welcome warning and does NO damage whatsoever. Because my patents have not yet issued, I cannot disclose further the whole system, but I hope you might help me spread the word on this topic and convince the machinery manufacturers to take a look and evaluate such ideas—hopefully as optional upgrade products—not mandated by government!

P.S. Somebody on another forum said my post is spam or misleading advertising. My gosh I hope not!! I invite the Lumberjocks Moderator or Webmaster to review my post(s) and if they are thought to be inappropriate, I will certainly delete them if requested to do so. Best regards—David

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MedicKen

1600 posts in 2158 days


#10 posted 01-06-2010 05:31 PM

How does this system work with a tenoning jig or cross cut sled? I personally dont see it being practical in those senarios. I do think it is a wonderful idea and the time spent on design and manufacture is a very good learning experience. I think that if this product is ever put to market it will be removed like all the other blade guards and then not replaced. I do think that more safety devices are needed as most of the factory guards are an after thought from the manufacturers just to satisfy the govt. Safety devices such as the Whirlwind are only good if they are in place and functioing properly.

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

View Damian Penney's profile

Damian Penney

1140 posts in 2687 days


#11 posted 01-06-2010 08:54 PM

I’d be honestly surprised if the number of injuries sustained while a standard blade guard was actually being used was particularly high.

On my guard the sides are always in contact with the table leaving zero space for a finger to slip through and while you could push your hand in the front there is no way you wouldn’t realize it before getting to the blade; and if my hand were being pulled into it then 1 second is way too long for the blade to stop, and then as soon as I need to use a tenon jig or even a crosscut sled I get no benefit at all.

It’s a good effort but I really don’t see this going anywhere – good luck though.

-- I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3879 posts in 2359 days


#12 posted 01-06-2010 09:13 PM

David—Thanks for posting the videos. Despite the objections and concerns posted here, your technology is certainly worth persuing. Keep up the good work, and best of luck!

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

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pommy

1697 posts in 2387 days


#13 posted 01-06-2010 09:51 PM

hi I’m from England do you intend to ship these overseas aswell because sawstop don’t at the moment and i as far as i know we do not have anything lke this in the UK and how much would you be thinking of retailing this

Andy

-- cut it saw it scrap it SKPE: ANDREW.CARTER69

View Dragonsrite's profile

Dragonsrite

136 posts in 2093 days


#14 posted 01-06-2010 09:56 PM

What stops the blade? From watching the video it looks as though the saw you’re using has a blade brake where simply interrupting the power to the saw should stop the blade relatively quickly. My saw doesn’t have a brake therefore it takes way more than a second to spin down.

-- Dragonsrite, Minnesota

View Jeison's profile

Jeison

947 posts in 1803 days


#15 posted 01-06-2010 10:57 PM

Brian – Shop gremlins?

-- - Jei, Rockford IL - When in doubt, spray it with WD-40 and wrap it with duct tape. The details will attend to themselves.

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