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Birch PW with Poplar Banding and Door Frames

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Forum topic by 1voyager1 posted 12-06-2015 02:10 AM 662 views 0 times favorited 9 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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1voyager1

74 posts in 895 days


12-06-2015 02:10 AM

I have begun my garage cabinets project.
I’ve cut the sides, tops & bottoms, and the back pieces for the 3 cabinets.
I went to HD yesterday to pick up the boards to make the door frames and the 1/4” edging that will be on the sides, ends and shelving.
All that was available, that was similar to birch, were poplar boards.
The plywood and edging pieces will be stained with Minwax water based Rosewood stain.
The door frames will be stained with the same type of stain except in a lighter Cinnamon color.

1.
Staining poplar for the door frames should not be a problem because of the difference in colors.
getting the plywood and the banding to match up may have some problems to overcome because of the differences in the wood types.
Any advice, please?

2.
In the Finishing Forum, OSU55 advised to use Elmer’s Glue as a pre-stain.
Looking around HD yesterday, the only glue similar to Elmer’s available in large enough containers for my needs were the 3 grades of TiteBond.
Would TiteBond be a good substitute for Elmer’s as a pre-stain sealer?

There will be more questions, without doubt.
I’ll post them here or elsewhere as they come up.

-- Every mighty oak is nothing more than a nut that has stood it's ground.


9 replies so far

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cracknpop

194 posts in 1812 days


#1 posted 12-06-2015 01:28 PM

I recently built some garage cabinets. I had some left over doors made with cherry, construction grade plywood, and used red oak for face frames. Strange combination but used what I had on hand.

Used Zinsser Universal Sanding Sealer (dewaxed shellac) cut with equal parts denatured alcohol (ie. 8oz shellac + 8oz alcohol) Basically, this makes the 2# cut out of the can a 1# cut stain conditioner. Just wiped it on the plywood with a rag. Lightly sanded after it was dry. Stained it with some stain I had that turned out to be very close.

Plywood and poplar are both known for blotching. This will help keep that to a minimum.

-- Rick - I know I am not perfect, but I will keep pressing on toward the goal of becoming all I am called to be.

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1voyager1

74 posts in 895 days


#2 posted 12-06-2015 10:04 PM

Thanks for your input cracknpop.

I brought the question about matching birch PW and poplar when staining because, to me, it was a wood characteristic question.
Then, I got lazy and included the pre-stain question that had been started in another forum.

I’m in the middle of the Pacific.
I cannot find shellac in any form available locally.
I had ordered shellac flakes online, but they won’t be in stock until near the end of the month, plus I cannot find any denatured alcohol locally that states its concentration on the can. Too many problems with trying to make my own shellac for a pre-stain sealer.
The Elmer’s route was suggested in the Finishing forum.

I think I’ll take my question back over there as I should have done to begin with.
Thanks anyway guy.

-- Every mighty oak is nothing more than a nut that has stood it's ground.

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cracknpop

194 posts in 1812 days


#3 posted 12-07-2015 12:23 AM

Does your Home Depot not carry Zinsser products? Their Universal Sanding Sealer is 2# cut de waxed shellac. If HD doesn’t carry denatured alcohol, then stop by the liquor store and buy a bottle of Everclear or other grain alcohol. Finishing class instructor said he prefers to use grain alcohol as he is more sure of what’s in it than a can at a hardware store.

Not much I can do to help you match birch to poplar. When I built my cabinets, I was more interested in function than wood match. (Not being critical, just sharing why I didn’t worry about wood match)

Good luck. May you be blessed with a Merry Christmas.

-- Rick - I know I am not perfect, but I will keep pressing on toward the goal of becoming all I am called to be.

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1voyager1

74 posts in 895 days


#4 posted 12-08-2015 08:33 AM

Hi cracknpop.
OK, I over stated it when I said that “shellac in any form” was not available.
What I meant to say is that dewaxed shellac is not available locally in any form.

I can order a dewaxed shellac through HD for pick up in the store.
That will take at least 3 to 4 weeks for it to arrive.
Shellac flakes ordered online will take even longer.
Even with the big-box stores, here in Hawai’i it is like being in Alaska before the big box stores arrived.
They carry limited varieties and run out of stock regularly on those things they do carry before the next shipment arrives.
Then, add into that the shipping madness that is going on right now because of Christmas.
One of the benefits of living remote, I guess.

Then If I can get it, I have the hurdle of trying to obtain what I know is 95% DNA.
All the DNA cans in the paint supplies are labeled as being Fuel without any ID as to concentration.
DNA cannot be ordered online for delivery to Hawai’i, air carried regulations.
While I may get it figured out sometime in the future, shellac is not a viable route at the moment.

I finished up cutting all my birch PW pieces today.
Looking at my leftovers and having not yet cut the poplar banding and door frames, I will need to stain the equivalent of about 4 PW sheets on both sides.
I went to HD today and picked up my stains, dowel pins, hinges, adjustable shelf pins, and a pint bottle of both Elmers and Titebond Original.
Tomorrow, I will test and compare staining over both of them on some of my scrap pieces.
We’ll see how they work.

I am concerned about how the poplar edging on the birch PW will look after staining.
I will probably glue the banding onto the PW before sizing and staining.
How ever it comes out, I’ll have to live with it.

Our Christmas will be a good one being spent with friends.
Both our families are on the mainland, no family complications to deal with here.
I hope your Christmas, for you and yours, will be as good or better.

-- Every mighty oak is nothing more than a nut that has stood it's ground.

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2193 posts in 944 days


#5 posted 12-08-2015 12:42 PM

Are these face frame cabs? If so, only edges you need worry about are the shelves, right? Oak edge strip will work quite well for these.

I almost exclusively go the frameless route with cabs. I use iron on edge banding. I get it from Woodworkers Supply. They have about any wood you want.

Do you have a table saw? If so you can get some pine or oak and rip your own edge strips.

Might I suggest staining that amount of plywood will be quite a lot of messy work?
An alternative to consider is polyurethane or polyacrylic over bare wood. This will leave the cabinets a lighter color which I think is better for a shop (may or may not be what you want).

I’ve been where you are quite a few times. Just a few things to consider.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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1voyager1

74 posts in 895 days


#6 posted 12-08-2015 05:20 PM

These cabinets are/will be frameless with dowel pins in the perimeter joints.
I preferred the simpler construction.
Plus, I didn’t see any capability in the design software for face framing.
So, I didn’t even look at that as an alternative.

I decided to make the edging 1/4” and will be ripping it on my table saw from the poplar boards.
Not open for discussion.
PW is already cut.
1/4” banding is required.

With the humidity here, I do not trust an iron on or thin veneer type of banding to stay in place through the long run.
I’ve seen those types delaminate too many times on other things in the past, even in much drier areas.

Yeah, I’m resigned to dealing with the staining/finishing mess.
As I’ve said elsewhere around here, I usually skip applying a finish to my wood projects, no finishes on the exposed wood on my tablesaw outfeed table or workbench.
But, this time I need to satisfy M’Lady and her nesting needs.
They will need to look like furniture.

-- Every mighty oak is nothing more than a nut that has stood it's ground.

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cracknpop

194 posts in 1812 days


#7 posted 12-08-2015 06:14 PM

1voyager1, sounds like you have a good plan. Be sure to post some pictures when you are done to let us know how it turns out.
Merry Christmas.

-- Rick - I know I am not perfect, but I will keep pressing on toward the goal of becoming all I am called to be.

View jerryminer's profile

jerryminer

528 posts in 905 days


#8 posted 12-08-2015 08:54 PM

So really the only issue is getting the poplar edge-banding to blend color-wise with the birch ply.

Are you using Minwax Gel stain? If so, I think you can skip the glue-sizing step, but you should do a test on scrap material. The poplar may stain darker, so a sizing may be appropriate there (sizing in general will reduce the color intensity).

If you DO chose to use a glue-size, you can thin Titebond ( 10/1 or so with water). It will add a very slight yellow color, but otherwise will behave like Elmer’s.

edit: “10/1” means 10 water/ I Titebond

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1voyager1

74 posts in 895 days


#9 posted 12-14-2015 07:24 PM

@ cracknpop
If I’m happy enough with the end results of this project that I’m not embarrassed by it when finished, I will post pics.
I should be OK with it if I can get the staining figured out.

@ jerryminer
That’s right.
My only real concern is how well the poplar edge banding will match the birch PW after staining and finishing them.
Admittedly, I am being excessively anal about it because any mismatch will be quite obvious on the fronts of the cabinets.
I am beginning to come to terms with whatever small mismatch there will be when finished.
And, I think it is likely to be not as noticeable as I worry that it could be.

I am using the Minwax water based stains.
I had some problems with staining my scrap PW test samples and pulled back to think about it a bit.
I will continue with my staining/finishing questions in a thread I had begun about this in the Finishing Forum.

Thanks guys for your input.

-- Every mighty oak is nothing more than a nut that has stood it's ground.

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