LumberJocks

Used Table Saw Advice

  • Advertise with us

« back to Power Tools, Hardware and Accessories forum

Forum topic by SteveInVa posted 11-28-2015 12:06 PM 622 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View SteveInVa's profile

SteveInVa

21 posts in 1416 days


11-28-2015 12:06 PM

I have had a Powermatic Artisan 63 for three years (bought off craigslist), which has allowed me to accomplish some nice work despite considerable difficulty keeping the blade aligned to the miter slots.. After tilting the blade for a bevel cut yesterday, it never came back into alignment when I brought the blade back to 90 degrees. I have tested it with a dial indicator. I got in deeper than I needed to, and detached the trunions and now am facing the daunting task of trying to put it back together. And even if I did, I suspect that there is something askew with the tilting mechanism, which will require more attention. I will give it another day or two of attention, but if it fails or if I can’t see my way out of this mess, I am in the market for a better, more reliable used saw.

I have eyed two possibilities and ask for anyone’s advice on which is the better deal. One is a Delta MOdel 10 HOmecraft saw https://lynchburg.craigslist.org/tls/5269096726.html . It’s selling for $100.

And the other is a 1960s era Craftsman for $200, which appears to have been rebuilt with TLC. Here are the details on it https://lynchburg.craigslist.org/tls/5311760685.html

Which would you advise (or would you hunt for longer). If I were to go for the Delta, could I put the cast iron wings of my existing saw onto it to extend the width of the table?

Of course all of this happened in the midst of a major cabinet building project in our bedroom. But that’s another story. Thanks for any help that you can offer

-- Steve


12 replies so far

View scvwood27's profile

scvwood27

117 posts in 1411 days


#1 posted 11-28-2015 12:24 PM

http://blacksburg.craigslist.org/tls/5309340948.html

Not sure how far this is from you, but I would go with this saw over both of those. just my opinion.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7207 posts in 2835 days


#2 posted 11-28-2015 12:45 PM

IIRC, the PM uses two connecting rods as an arbor carriage. It’s not uncommon for those rods to twist within their bracket, causing a misalignment. If that’s the case, it’s possible to get them back where they belong….the Delta contractor design is similar, and they used to have instructions for getting those rods back into alignment on the web….it involves untwisting the rods….I’d Google it for details.

It’s also possible that you simply have some burrs on the mating surfaces where the trunnion brackets meet the underside of the table, or some damaged bolts or washers that hold those trunnion brackets.

Contractor saws with connecting rods can be a PITA to get aligned if there’s an issue, but it’s doable. If you look to replace it, be sure to stick with belt drive and an induction motor….preferably full size.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2410 posts in 1974 days


#3 posted 11-28-2015 01:07 PM

What’s with the funky metal box under the Craftsman? Looks like it has a dolly base. Does all that come with it? Be a heck of a storage area.

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View SteveInVa's profile

SteveInVa

21 posts in 1416 days


#4 posted 11-28-2015 01:31 PM

Thanks, scvwood27. What’s the advantage of the Craftsman in Blacksburg? It would be an additional 45 minute drive one way. This one

https://lynchburg.craigslist.org/tls/5296347796.html

is closer but $75.00 more.

Thoughts?

-- Steve

View SteveInVa's profile

SteveInVa

21 posts in 1416 days


#5 posted 11-28-2015 01:34 PM

Yes, the PM has those two connecting rods, which it make it very difficult to get the bolt holes for the rear trunions to line up. As of now, I can’t even get it close to even be able to reattach the rear trunion. I have cleaned up the underside of the table and have new bolts but I can’t get it to where I can even thread them back on. If I go with a new saw, I’ll be sure to stay away from models with those rods. Thanks.

-- Steve

View SteveInVa's profile

SteveInVa

21 posts in 1416 days


#6 posted 11-28-2015 05:51 PM

Here’s an update and further question. I managed to reattach the turnions on the PM and get back up and into alignment, but none of my zero clearance inserts fit. That was the same issue that alerted me to trouble after I made the bevel rip yesterday. Even though the blade is aligned to the miter slot now, the blade is now in a different position than before. For example, the blade is now 3/32 of an inch away from the edge of my panel cutting sled whereas before there was zero clearance between the sled and the blade. What possibly could have caused this and what deeper problem does it indicate? I’m about ready to offer the saw to someone who has more mechanical know-how and patience than I, but I found this turn of events curious.

Any thoughts or insights would be most welcome.

Steve

-- Steve

View daddywoofdawg's profile

daddywoofdawg

1010 posts in 1034 days


#7 posted 11-28-2015 07:24 PM

has the table moved?
over torqued a bolt?
Wasn’t right before?

View MrUnix's profile (online now)

MrUnix

4202 posts in 1658 days


#8 posted 11-28-2015 07:42 PM

Here s an update and further question. I managed to reattach the turnions on the PM and get back up and into alignment, but none of my zero clearance inserts fit. That was the same issue that alerted me to trouble after I made the bevel rip yesterday. Even though the blade is aligned to the miter slot now, the blade is now in a different position than before.
[...]
Any thoughts or insights would be most welcome.

That is what happens when you do what you did… any time you loosen the trunnions and move stuff around, you will rarely get them back in the exact same position in relation to the table top. It will happen on cabinet saws as well, when moving the table around for alignment. Your only options are to either re-do your alignment and try to get it as close to how it was before, or re-cut your inserts/sleds for the new position (or make new ones). Unfortunately, it sounds like you didn’t mark your table with the position of the blade before moving stuff around, so the first option might take quite a bit of trial and error.

In the future, before you start messing with stuff, it’s a good idea to lay a straight edge along side the blade and mark the table where the straight edge hangs over the front/back… painters tape and a sharpie marker works well. You can then use those reference marks to get things back pretty close to where they were. You will still probably have to re-cut your inserts and sleds, but it will just be a hair off, so they will still be usable.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: You might also get close by putting the sled on the table and trying to get the blade close before completing the alignment… would be slightly better than just trial and error :)

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

View athomas5009's profile

athomas5009

293 posts in 1077 days


#9 posted 11-29-2015 06:39 PM

That is the one thing that sucks about contractors saws the trunnions somehow manage to get out of alignment every so often. This was one of the reasons I jumped on a affordable used cabinet saw the 1st chance I got.

I personally wouldn’t go with either of the saws posted. If you replace your PM contractor with a different one you will inevitabley run into similar problems down the road. It feels like your constantly chasing your tail, I’ve been there.

I’d order a set of PALS get 2 if you want a lil overkill and some loctite. Read up on re-adjusting the 2 rods like mentioned above. Spend a weekend getting everything within .005 or less preferably .002 area and secure it with loctite and the PALS. The PALS take the whacking out of trunion alignment and they also lock them in place really well. I did this to my Cman contractors model about a year ago, before I got my Cab saw. It runs just as good as my Cab saw does and it hasn’t moved a hair since.

I kept the Cman for a dedicated crosscut sled saw. My miter saw blows and I perfer a TS anyways. But just repair it right will cost around 100. It should be rock solid after that. Then save and fine a good used cab saw on CL for 500-1000k. Then you can sell your PM for a cpl hundred or keep it.

-- Sometimes you're flush and sometimes you're bust, and when you're up, it's never as good as it seems, and when you're down, you never think you'll be up again, but life goes on.

View SteveInVa's profile

SteveInVa

21 posts in 1416 days


#10 posted 11-29-2015 09:24 PM

Thanks to those you replied to my update. Brad, I do think that you are right that the kind of movement I experienced is to be expected when I had to undo all the trunion bolts. However, it doesn’t explain why I experienced that significant movement in the position of the blade before I touched the trunion bolts and only after I tilted the blade to 50 degrees and tilted it back to 90. Something popped, and I do wonder if it always were wrong as daddywoofdog suggested.

I understand the advice to fix the PM and save for a used cabinet saw. Believe me, if I could, that would be the move I would make. However, my shop, spacious as it is, is very difficult to access, being in the basement, down two flights of stairs and then up a short flight through a very narrow door. Getting a used cabinet saw in there would be nearly impossible and by the time I pay movers, I would lose the advantage of being one used. I may do it eventually (or buy one new and have it delivered), but that’s not in the current stars.

The PM has mulitiple problems, giving me pause to fuss any further with it. I did have PALS installed, but for reasons that I won’t elaborate on, they did install with great ease on this machine, I don’t think that I ever really had them right. So, I went out and got an old crafstman for $150 that has a good 2 hp motor and am now putting PALS on it this afternoon—-going on much easier because access to the rear trunion bolts are much easier than on the PM (and the trunion holes and bolt holes in the table line up properly as they did not do so very well on the PM). The fence on the Crafstman sucks so, I’m then going to try to install the Vega fence from the PM (that saw’s best feature) onto the Craftsman.

Here’s another question. Has anyone every repurposed an old table from a table saw, say to make an extension table on another saw or to add a second set of wings for additional width? If I can repurpose PM, I would be satisfied rather than selling it to someone who will only find frustration with it.

-- Steve

View MrUnix's profile (online now)

MrUnix

4202 posts in 1658 days


#11 posted 11-29-2015 09:42 PM

Hey Steve… sounds like you got a solution with that used c-man. I doubt you could use the PM table as an extension easily, but with some creative drilling and imagination, it might be possible. Might be a better idea just to sell it as is and be done with it though – the PM is a solid saw and anyone familiar with them will know how to deal with any issues that arise. And it would offset what you paid for the C-man.

I would also add that if you have room for a contractor saw, you have room for a cabinet saw – there is not much difference in floor space, and the contractor saw actually might take up more room with the motor hanging off the back. As for getting one into your basement, that is a non-issue. You can break them down easily into manageable chunks. Take the extension wings off (3 bolts each), table off (4 bolts) and remove the motor (1 bolt and a pin) and you are left with pieces you can easily move by yourself. The largest piece would be the cabinet, and it’s only about 20” wide. I can’t see it being any more difficult than trying to do the same with a contractor saw… something to keep in mind.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

View SteveInVa's profile

SteveInVa

21 posts in 1416 days


#12 posted 11-29-2015 10:16 PM

Thanks, Brad. I appreciate the help and advice. If I can’t easily transfer the PM fence to the C-man, then I’ll sell the PM and use whatever I get out of it for a new fence.

And thanks for the heads up on how a cabinet saw breaks down. This is becoming a serious hobby and it may be that I’ll move in that direction within a couple of years. Floor space is not the issue in my basement, just getting into it. But if the cabinet saw breaks down as you say, then all I would need is a a dedicated 220 outlet.

Kind regards,

Steve

-- Steve

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com