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Do I? Powermatic 66 locally for under $1000. 3 phase though.

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Forum topic by Holbs posted 11-25-2015 08:02 PM 827 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Holbs

1371 posts in 1489 days


11-25-2015 08:02 PM

Topic tags/keywords: pm66 powermatic table saw 3 phase

I am in contact with someone locally who is selling their “in good shape” Powermatic 66 table saw, 3 phase 5 HP from a production shop.
I emailed him and asked if he could drop the price from $1000 since I have to purchase static converter or VFD (still have to research how to do all that magic). He replies how much of a drop. Was thinking of $700-$800. I am in need of a cabinet saw. Nearly pulled trigger on a new Grizzly Hybrid or new 1023, nearly. I realize it is a used production table saw so might need fine tuning or touch up parts. What do you guys think? If it was a single phase 220v, I would of bought it $1000 outright. But the 3 phase part makes me skittish.

-- Yes, my profile picture is of a Carpenter Bee! The name is derived from the Ancient Greek "wood-cutter"


16 replies so far

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Richard

1898 posts in 2150 days


#1 posted 11-25-2015 08:23 PM

I would figure out the cost of the Grizzly and the cost of the PM and the 3 phase install and see if you could get the PM for that total cost , if so I would go with the PM.

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knotscott

7208 posts in 2836 days


#2 posted 11-25-2015 08:35 PM

You’ll be in it for $1200-$1300 once you get a VFD or converter. It’s a nice saw, but the total outlay will be a tad steep for my tastes for a used saw with no riving knife or warranty. There’s not much that can’t be fixed on it, but for that much money, I’d want it closer to plug and play.

A hybrid is sufficient for the vast majority of what most hobbyists do, but a true cabinet saw is in a completely different league. While the PM66 is closer to king of the hill in the cabinet saw class, the G1023RL is still a major step up from a hybrid. There’s far more involved than just having more power….there’s a bunch more mass, the innerds are much more substantial, handwheels are larger and smoother, every mechanism tends to work as it should, the motor is far less likely to strain, it’ll be less sensitive to blade selection, and it should hold up better in the long run….whether you get a used PM66 or new G1023. Even though a cabinet saw is more than I need, I’ve never regretted making the jump from a tricked out hybrid to a cabinet saw….it’s just always a pleasure to use, and I never worry about pushing it too hard.

Let us know how you make out!

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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MrUnix

4203 posts in 1659 days


#3 posted 11-25-2015 08:40 PM

Built like a tank.. as long as there is no obvious major damage, you are probably looking at just replacing the bearings and belts along with a good cleaning and tune-up. Maybe $100 in parts/paint/misc… There are plenty of posts out there on stuff to look for in the way of damage that might not be immediately obvious (chipped teeth, broken/cracked castings, stuff like that). If you do go look at it, bring a flashlight and a few tools so you can get under the hood and give it a good once-over.

However, with a 5HP motor, it gets a bit trickier… for 3HP and under (roughly 10 amp FLA or less), there are plenty of options for single to three phase VFD’s that are pretty inexpensive. Above that, and your choices start to get limited and more expensive. Most only take three phase input, although can be used with single phase input as long as they are de-rated – meaning that you will need one capable of twice the FLA of the motor. An RPC is another option, although they are generally more expensive as well and you loose the benefits you can get with a VFD. A static converter is an option as well, but would be my last choice; they will reduce the motors power by about 1/3, as they don’t really supply three phase, only single phase, to the motor (they drop one leg, which is why you get the reduced power).

I would pass… if for no other reason other than you can find PM66’s and Unisaws being sold for much less in about the same condition. But it is a solid saw, so the decision is really how much you want to spend and how much effort you are willing to undertake to get the thing running on single phase power.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: Forgot to mention, there is always the option of swapping out the motor! But unless you can find a nice used one, they aren’t exactly cheap either, and you wind up needing to address the electrics (starter) to properly size the heaters and such.

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

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Holbs

1371 posts in 1489 days


#4 posted 11-25-2015 09:24 PM

looking at something like Leeson Woodworking Electric Motor — 3 HP, 3450 RPM, Model# 120341 = $394. Probably the best way to go instead of 3 phase magic. Let’s see what the guy says to this

-- Yes, my profile picture is of a Carpenter Bee! The name is derived from the Ancient Greek "wood-cutter"

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MrUnix

4203 posts in 1659 days


#5 posted 11-25-2015 09:41 PM

You might also want to search the used market for a 3hp three phase motor… you can usually pick them up super cheap, like $20-$50 or so… add a $150 VFD and it will be less than the new one you are looking at. There are a lot of benefits to a 3 phase motor besides being more robust and more efficient. Combined with a VFD, you can do all sorts of stuff not possible with a single phase one. Then you can sell the starter on the saw (which isn’t needed with a VFD) to make up a lot of that cost. Don’t forget that the starter on that saw won’t be appropriate for a smaller single phase motor, so add that in your equation as well. Just another thing to consider :)

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

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Holbs

1371 posts in 1489 days


#6 posted 11-25-2015 09:42 PM

3hp 3 phase motors are that cheap? wow… lemme go a searching.

-- Yes, my profile picture is of a Carpenter Bee! The name is derived from the Ancient Greek "wood-cutter"

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bonesbr549

1176 posts in 2527 days


#7 posted 11-25-2015 09:44 PM

ahh thats a steal and jump on it! That 5hp is a beast, and a phase converter is nothing. I have a rotary phase converter because I have more than one machine so thats a better choice. If you are ok with 220, it’s just another leg. One thing to find out is it 440v 3 phase. That wll tell you what you need.

Its worth the price in a minute.

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

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Holbs

1371 posts in 1489 days


#8 posted 11-25-2015 10:09 PM

I offered $500 unseen. Would take me a month or two to rehab it and clean it up. Then get a 3HP single phase motor or 3phase 3HP motor with VFD. Waiting on his reply (if he even bothers to reply). But I figure $500 would be good offer.

-- Yes, my profile picture is of a Carpenter Bee! The name is derived from the Ancient Greek "wood-cutter"

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BurlyBob

3650 posts in 1726 days


#9 posted 11-26-2015 02:51 AM

Holbs, you screw around any more and your going to be back here whinning someone bought it out from under you. Buddy it’s a T66 they don’t get any better than that. Get off yer A$$, grab your wallet and go get it in the morning!!! If you don’t it will be in someone else’s shop, not yours.

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rwe2156

2190 posts in 941 days


#10 posted 11-26-2015 11:50 AM

Right on BB^. (((:-D)))

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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TheTurtleCarpenter

823 posts in 526 days


#11 posted 11-26-2015 03:16 PM

Bones and Burley Bob are on the button. I bought a 66 new and they are a Cadillac.

-- "Tying shoelaces was way harder than learning to Whistle",,,,,member MWTCA area K. Kentucky

View RJ2's profile

RJ2

151 posts in 3245 days


#12 posted 11-26-2015 03:33 PM

I sold 2 nice 66’s and a Unisaw all 3 phase , in Tampa , were posted on different sites for months.
Can’t get over $300 around here for a Unisaw or the the 66’s in green and $650 for yellow. I will say if it has a long Bessy on it , uni saws go up to 500,
Yellow 66 about 750-800

-- RJ, Tampa Fl, RJMETALWOODS.COM

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Holbs

1371 posts in 1489 days


#13 posted 11-26-2015 04:14 PM

Remember guys… I originally was going for a Grizzly Hybrid or if luck came my way before Christmas a 1023. I can not afford $1000 for a saw I have to purchase additional electrical items due to the 5HP 3phase issue. Even if it was a PM66 gold plated table top :) As a comparison, there is also this for $1200 locally. 2 great saws, but out of reach from my wallet.
52” Professional T-Glide Fence System, Rails
Extension Table (new) TGP252
ICS Industrial Mobile Base MB-PCS-IND

  • Ok…I take that back. Maybe I will call the sawstop owner to ask a question :)

-- Yes, my profile picture is of a Carpenter Bee! The name is derived from the Ancient Greek "wood-cutter"

View JR545's profile

JR545

10 posts in 647 days


#14 posted 11-27-2015 02:53 AM

I have two used single phase PM66’s in my home shop.
One 3hp set up for dados and a 5hp for everything else.
Gave $250 for the 3hp and it is usable but needs some love when time permits.
Gave $400 for the 5hp with bies fence, PM table extension and mobil base. Still had the OEM blade on it.
I’ve used everything from crapsman up to the hybrids and uni’s.
I’m sold on the PMs.

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BurlyBob

3650 posts in 1726 days


#15 posted 11-27-2015 03:01 AM

Holbs, old buddy that saw stop on craigslist is a scam. I’ve seen it in so many CL areas it’s ridiculous. There’s even a thread about it here on LJ’s . It really sucks when someone dangles a carrot like that. I mentioned it to a buddy in Colo Sprgs., then I found out it was a scam. As You can Imagine I was a bit embarrassed to tell him I’d been sucked it.

I wish you the best in your search for a good saw.

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