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What is the difference between a parrallogram bed and non- parralleogram jointer bed?

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Forum topic by Andrew posted 12-29-2009 09:28 PM 5233 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Andrew

709 posts in 1853 days


12-29-2009 09:28 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question jointer

I am interested in a jointer, and am just wondering what the difference is between theese two specifications.
Thanks.

-- Even a broken clock is right twice a day, unless, it moves at half speed like ....-As the Saw Turns


16 replies so far

View NBeener's profile

NBeener

4806 posts in 1829 days


#1 posted 12-29-2009 09:31 PM

My $0.02:

A wedge designed jointer has the cutterhead section shaped like a pyramid, with the tables attached via dovetail ways.

The tables move up or down by being forced along the side of the pyramid by screws.

A parallelogram jointer has the beds attached to the head via arms that pivot. The parallelogram shape is changed by screws to move the beds up or down.

The older wedge type jointers are just fine, as any 100 year old machine will atest to. Dovetailed ways last a long time, and are shimmed for jointer alignment.

A well made parallelogram would work well, as long as it has large bearing surfaces, with dissimilar metals with oil for lubrication. Otherwise if it has small bearing areas it will wear and become loose.

In another 80 years, we’ll have good experience with the life of these machines.

As with all machines, quality means precision which means money, and a jointer is no exception, you’ll get what you pay for with either design.

[Aww … who am I kidding? I TOTALLY stole that answer from a post on SawmillCreek :-)]

-- -- Neil

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Andrew

709 posts in 1853 days


#2 posted 12-29-2009 09:34 PM

Holy Christmas, thanks for the earlod Neil. Are you suggesting I wait 80 years to make my decision?

-- Even a broken clock is right twice a day, unless, it moves at half speed like ....-As the Saw Turns

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NBeener

4806 posts in 1829 days


#3 posted 12-29-2009 09:42 PM

Andrew:

In the immortal words of Dirty Harry:

You’ve got to be asking yourself one question: “Do I feel lucky?”

Well? Do ya’ ... punk? :-)

-- -- Neil

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NBeener

4806 posts in 1829 days


#4 posted 12-29-2009 09:43 PM

Just kidding around….

I really have ZERO first-hand knowledge about this, but found the question interesting and googled it.

Here’s the thread, from Sawmill Creek. I think you’ll find some useful info, there, in addition to the invaluable feedback of the LJs!

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=106917

-- -- Neil

View BlankMan's profile

BlankMan

1487 posts in 2008 days


#5 posted 12-29-2009 11:55 PM

To get the tables perfectly flat on a non-parallelogram jointer and perfectly level with respect to one another can be a real PITA. You have to use shims on the ways and make sure the shim travels with the table to keep it level otherwise it may be level in one position but not then when you move it.

On parallelogram jointer’s the rods that the linkage pivots on ride in eccentrics, by spinning the eccentric you raise/lower that end of that rod thus raising or lower the table at that point. There is interaction between the four eccentrics so you dial it in slowing and recheck until you’ve got it dialed in but once dialed in it will stay there. Thus, because on the parallelogram design using the rods and linkage it will remain level in all positions. That’s in theory, it all then depends on how accurately the parts, like the links, were machined.

As for the bushing wearing out and becoming sloppy, that’s pretty much a myth in my opinion. Bushing are used in motors all over the place. Motor shafts spin at thousands of revolutions per minute and last a long time. To get that kind of wear on a jointer’s parallelogram table bushings you’d have to be raising and lower the tables constantly and then I don’t think you could even do it in your’s and your grand’ kids lifetime. But now you got me thinking, I’m going to take a look at my DJ-20 and see what they use.

And once the outfeed table is adjusted to the height of the knives you don’t move it till the next time you change the knives. I hardly ever even move my infeed table, I take off the least amount of wood with it just to get the board flat or an edge square. Then you plane it to thickness or saw it to width.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

View miles125's profile

miles125

2179 posts in 2660 days


#6 posted 12-30-2009 12:13 AM

A well made jointer is just hitting its stride at 80 years. I marvel at the over engineering quality of machinery in the early 20th century.

By the way, i saw a 30” (yes wide) old jointer in a garage in New Orleans. All i could do was stare at it.

-- "The way to make a small fortune in woodworking- start with a large one"

View Chris 's profile

Chris

1867 posts in 2646 days


#7 posted 12-30-2009 12:24 AM

Now Miles that was just a tease…. Of course I would like to be able to face join an entire Tree!!! :)

-- "Everything that is great and inspiring is created by the individual who labors in freedom" -- Albert Einstein

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miles125

2179 posts in 2660 days


#8 posted 12-30-2009 12:28 AM

Chris, you could turn a dining table upside down and resurface it…lol

-- "The way to make a small fortune in woodworking- start with a large one"

View Gary's profile

Gary

7238 posts in 2087 days


#9 posted 12-30-2009 01:00 AM

My .02 …... the difference is three letters (non) and a dash (-)
Guess that gives you some idea of my knowledge on the subject…. lol

-- Gary, DeKalb Texas only 4 miles from the mill

View Andrew's profile

Andrew

709 posts in 1853 days


#10 posted 12-30-2009 01:21 AM

Thanks guys, I appreciate the input. It is starting to make sense. Think non is the way togo and I don’t have to wait.

-- Even a broken clock is right twice a day, unless, it moves at half speed like ....-As the Saw Turns

View Kent Shepherd's profile

Kent Shepherd

2698 posts in 1941 days


#11 posted 12-30-2009 01:22 AM

I own both types. They both work well if they are quality tools to begin with. Parallelogram jointers are usually heavier duty, but not always. They all must be set up properly, or you will have problems. Wedge type beds are generally cheaper and are perfectly fine, especially for hobbiests.

BlankMan gave a great description, so I won’t waste my limited typing ability.

-- She thought I hung the moon--now she just thinks I did it wrong

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Andrew

709 posts in 1853 days


#12 posted 12-30-2009 01:27 AM

Even clearer, thanks
You have 2 lointers and I have none. That doesn’t seem to fair.

-- Even a broken clock is right twice a day, unless, it moves at half speed like ....-As the Saw Turns

View BlankMan's profile

BlankMan

1487 posts in 2008 days


#13 posted 12-30-2009 03:03 AM

Andrew, actually I would have to disagree with the way to go, I’ve owned both types, all 8” jointer’s, in my opinion the parallelogram is the better design, however the non-parallelogram is cheaper to manufacture therefore costs less. At this point, I have a parallelogram jointer and wouldn’t own a non-parallelogram jointer again. Of the two types if you can afford a parallelogram jointer I would recommend getting one.

BTW Thanks Kent.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

32 posts in 1448 days


#14 posted 08-07-2014 02:42 AM

so would you buy a used delta wedge bed, or a new grizzley parallelogram style, both 8”? jon

View TheWoodenOyster's profile

TheWoodenOyster

864 posts in 590 days


#15 posted 08-07-2014 03:23 AM

Glad this came up. I have a 6” JET dovetail way jointer. It works fine, but adjusting it to level is literally worth buying a new jointer over. Needless to say I have never adjusted it. The whole shimming it to level process seems like bunk to me, but I am sure someone has done it. I consider myself relatively mechanically inclined and I see no freaking way to truly level up a non parallelogram jointer unless you job title is “Master Non-Parallelogram Jointer Shimmer”. FWW makes it sound easy but it is anything but that. Luckily, mine is level, but should it ever go out, I am buying a new jointer, no questions asked. If I were buying new, I would go with a parallelogram. I may be clueless here but from what I can tell, leveling parallelogram beds might take 3 to 4 hours. Tedious, but not terrible. Leveling non parallelogram beds… I don’t even want to think about it.

Thewoodwhisperer has a great video on adjusting jointer beds to level. Take a look at it because I remember it revealing a decent amount about parallelogram jointers (I believe the one he works on is a parallelogram). Good Luck

-- The Wood Is Your Oyster

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