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Forum topic by BubbaIBA posted 10-29-2015 02:31 PM 745 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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BubbaIBA

383 posts in 1844 days


10-29-2015 02:31 PM

I finished the bath Wall Cabinet and it is hung.

Work is insane, when between projects and tired from work like now my shop offers a sanctuary but little is done. Mostly I will spend my time sitting at the work bench holding tools, rearranging tools, and tool maintenance.

BTW, I’ve round heels when it comes to sharpening systems and am rarely a purest to any one way but lean towards use of natural stones.

Last night was one of those times but I had a little extra energy and as I’ve been thinking of adding Jnat stones to the mix I thought I would do an A/B test of diamond/oil stone/strop vs. Shapton ceramic stones. To make it interesting I used my normal freehand method on the oil stones and the new LN jig on the Shapton’s. The irons were two 2” LV PM-v11, mounted in a LN #4 and a LV #4. While the test was purely subjective, I can say there was little to no difference in the shavings or the surface left. Effort to plane, again little difference but if I had to pick one I would pick the oil stone iron. That of course could just be my natural bias to oil stones. The “bing” of the bevel, the Shapton’s win hands down, the Shapton’s sure can polish iron. After many passes on some Cherry with each I looked at the edges through a 20X loop and the oil stone edge was still pristine, the Shapton, good but not perfect.

As I said: purely subjective, could the results be repeated by someone else….maybe, maybe not. Bottom line, I found it instructive and confirming my bias toward natural stones. AS always with anything wood….YMMV.

ken


16 replies so far

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bridgerberdel

26 posts in 709 days


#1 posted 10-29-2015 04:32 PM

My stones are acquired piecemeal, occasionally purchased new but often scored at yard sales and junk shops. I don’t have full sets of anything, and budget (and the time shift nature of thrift store shopping) mean that I tend not to have the latest and greatest nor the most expensive. I do have several coticules, though….

But I have tried out a lot of different sharpening processes. I find that for some 90% of my sharpening needs I am well served with a bench grinder, two stones and a strop. Which two stones does vary a bit but is often 1200 dmt and surgical black.

-- occasional musings on my blog: www.bridgerberdel.wordpress.com

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BubbaIBA

383 posts in 1844 days


#2 posted 10-30-2015 01:31 AM

Bridger,

That is pretty much what I use, only my 1200 diamond is an EZLAP. I will will sometimes follow the EZLAP with a Washita or soft Arkansas before going to the Hard Black Arkansas.

I’ve never used a Coticule stone but understand they can be a little soft.

I knew I favorited the oil stones so I stacked the deck in favor of the Shaptons by using a jig and going through all the grits from 320, 1000, 5000, 8000, and finished up on a 15000. Even with all the advantages the oil stone/strop was a better edge and took a quarter of the time to finish.

Sharpening should be simple, quick, and easy so you are never working with a dull edge. As always….YMMV.

ken

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bridgerberdel

26 posts in 709 days


#3 posted 11-02-2015 05:43 AM

Coticule is like a waterstone that leaves a natural stone edge. I reserve them almost exclusively for straight razors

-- occasional musings on my blog: www.bridgerberdel.wordpress.com

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BubbaIBA

383 posts in 1844 days


#4 posted 11-02-2015 01:22 PM

I’ve a couple of straight razors around and every once in a while I feel the need to bleed. Never really learned to use one.

I’ve tried most ways of sharpening but bottom line a natural stone gives a sharper, stronger edge. I’m not sure why. Brian over at SMC suggests it is because of the relative difference between the hardness of the grit and and the iron. I think he may be correct, but I also think it could be that some of the reason is because with natural stones the grit size varies more than t does with a synthetic stone.

ken

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bearkatwood

1214 posts in 479 days


#5 posted 11-02-2015 01:51 PM

I have been using the DMT diamond plates series and they have worked great for me. I have been trying to update them all to the 8”. I recently bought the extra fine plate and it is amazing the results it gives, almost a mirror finish. It just needs a little stropping and you can shave easily with it. Used in conjunction with the veritas MKII honing guides it can get scary results. It is a pricey setup, but it works amazingly.

-- Brian Noel

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BubbaIBA

383 posts in 1844 days


#6 posted 11-02-2015 03:30 PM

Brian,

I use diamonds to set up the natural stones. It works very well as the diamonds cut very fast but the natural stone will leave a better edge. A polished edge is not necessarily as sharp as an edge that is not as highly polished. Some of the most prized Jnat stones leave a “haze” instead of a polish. Try a natural stone, either an oil stone or a Jnat, as your finish stone. I expect you will find it gives a better edge, one that is as sharp but will last longer between honing.

ken

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bridgerberdel

26 posts in 709 days


#7 posted 11-09-2015 12:53 AM

Ken- I drive by your place pretty often right now to and from work. Want to give a coticule a shot for a while?

-- occasional musings on my blog: www.bridgerberdel.wordpress.com

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BubbaIBA

383 posts in 1844 days


#8 posted 11-09-2015 01:48 AM

Bridger,

Would love to. BTW I’ve a couple of Jnats on the way.

Here is one of the best explanation I’ve seen of why natural stones will give a better edge:

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/jns-grit-fines-and-hardnes/

ken

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bridgerberdel

26 posts in 709 days


#9 posted 11-09-2015 02:29 AM

I’ll drop it off one of these days. If you’re not about when I can come by, where can I leave it?

-- occasional musings on my blog: www.bridgerberdel.wordpress.com

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BubbaIBA

383 posts in 1844 days


#10 posted 11-09-2015 02:38 AM

Bridger,

Buddha’s lap or the drawer under Buddha should work. I should be around the first part of the week, off until Thursday.

ken

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BubbaIBA

383 posts in 1844 days


#11 posted 11-10-2015 10:53 AM

Bridger came by with the Coticule, we had a nice visit.

Later I tried the stone on a vintage chisel. The Coticule is a “slurry” stone much like some Japanese water stones. Once I worked up a good slurry the Coticule made a nice smooth polish on the iron. It is a little slow and I expect in use on tools would be just a finishing stone. In use on razors it can be a “one stone” hone and finish. Interesting stone.

ken

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BubbaIBA

383 posts in 1844 days


#12 posted 11-10-2015 10:54 AM

Removed double post

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BubbaIBA

383 posts in 1844 days


#13 posted 11-10-2015 09:11 PM

I received a new fairly soft Jnat from JNS the other day. It is a medium grit stone from Niigata, Sanjo. Last night I got around to flattening the bottom so it will set without rocking and this AM I made a quick and dirty Cherry holder and lid for it. BTW, the stone is a brick.

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BubbaIBA

383 posts in 1844 days


#14 posted 11-10-2015 09:14 PM

It is very easy to bring up a nice thick slurry with the Nagura.

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BubbaIBA

383 posts in 1844 days


#15 posted 11-10-2015 09:15 PM

The stone is very fast cutting, I prepped on a Atoma 1200 and in just a few strokes the chisel was polished and there is good definition between the steel and the soft iron. To the eye the edge looks polished, under a 10X lope all the 1200 scratches are gone and there is a nice matt finish to the polished edge. I usually do not test irons, I just look, feel and if it looks right and feels right I put it away. The chisel looks and feels like it is ready to use.

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