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Need help. Trouble sharpening a large gouge.

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Forum topic by deebee posted 10-29-2015 05:16 AM 951 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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deebee

18 posts in 695 days


10-29-2015 05:16 AM

Topic tags/keywords: large gouge sharpening wolverine

Hello everyone;

I sharpen my lathe tools using the Wolverine sharpening guide, and it works beautifully for me. Far better than hand sharpening. But I have a large 2” roughing gouge (it is stamped “Henry Taylor” on the shaft, but I cannot find it in their catalog) that I cannot figure out how to sharpen using the Wolverine system. The radius, or sweep, of the cutting edge of the tool is so large, when I try to set up to sharpen it the grinder only scribes a smaller ‘arc’ on the blade of the tool.

I cannot set it up in such a way as to make the full sweep of the tool stay in contact with the grinding wheel throughout the range of the motion used to sharpen. I reasoned that the handle (where it sits in the socket of the bar) is much smaller in diameter than the arc needed to turn to keep the tool in contact, and thus if the handle of the tool were of much larger diameter, that would do the trick….so I fashioned a wheel or disc of out of wood that tightly fits over the rear portion of the tool handle and is around 6” in diameter but still, I cannot get the tool edge to maintain contact throughout the range of motion.

Has anyone else had this problem, and found a way to resolve it….or I am I to be forced to sharpen a tool this large “by eye”.....?? Thanks in advance for any help you can lend. Dan B, in Missouri

-- Dan B. , Missouri


12 replies so far

View ForestGrl's profile

ForestGrl

445 posts in 553 days


#1 posted 10-29-2015 06:56 AM

Wow, a 2” roughing gouge is huge! Way wider than your grinding wheel no doubt. You could try hand-holding it using the Wolverine platform (as opposed to pocket), using one finger underneath the iron and against the edge of the platform to maintain distance, and the other hand presses down against the platform and rolls the tool at the same time. I’m having a hard time visualizing the size of a round handle being the culprit, too sleepy perhaps, will rethink tomorrow. Is the nose of the gouge nice and square the way a roughing gouge should be?

-- My mother said that anyone learning to cook needed a large dog to eat the mistakes. As a sculptor of wood I have always tried to keep a fireplace. (Norman Ridenour)

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

1887 posts in 1601 days


#2 posted 10-29-2015 11:39 AM

Have 1 ½” or 1 ¼” HT roughing not sure bought it over 20 years ago, but have no trouble sharpening it using the V-arm on my 6” grinder.

After extending V-arm so bevel rest on wheel, roll the gouge to the other side and back. One or two passes gets it done.

Good luck.

-- Bill

View Bruyet's profile

Bruyet

34 posts in 609 days


#3 posted 10-29-2015 11:57 AM

I have a 2” roughing gouge, and use the Wolverine System. I don’t use the V-arm for this one, I switch to the platform. Set it at the correct angle and roll the bevel against the wheel. Does that make sense? It works well for me.

View soob's profile

soob

223 posts in 675 days


#4 posted 10-30-2015 02:35 PM

Yeah, use the platform.

The 2” roughing gouge with the squared bevel profile is surprisingly useful. I got one not long ago after seeing what you can do with it. You skew it for clean cuts and you can rotate it so you cut with the edge, so it can cut right up to a square shoulder.

There’s probably some youtube videos demonstrating this better than I can describe it. ETA: Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KfeLAHQSbqk#t=814

View deebee's profile

deebee

18 posts in 695 days


#5 posted 10-30-2015 05:56 PM

Thanks for the replies. No, the nose of the tool is not square to the shaft, and therein lies the crux of the problem. I think that if it was square, I’d have no problem sharpening it with the bar extension on the Wolverine.

I may be using the wrong term calling it a ‘roughing gouge’, because the edge is not square, but swept back. I am thinking that using the platform is going to be the way to go, and sharpen it in the manner shown in this vid….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOEL7Q3CpZc

Thanks again for help and suggestions.

-- Dan B. , Missouri

View ForestGrl's profile

ForestGrl

445 posts in 553 days


#6 posted 10-30-2015 06:35 PM


Thanks for the replies. No, the nose of the tool is not square to the shaft, and therein lies the crux of the problem. I think that if it was square, I d have no problem sharpening it with the bar extension on the Wolverine.

I may be using the wrong term calling it a roughing gouge , because the edge is not square, but swept back. I am thinking that using the platform is going to be the way to go, and sharpen it in the manner shown in this vid….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOEL7Q3CpZc

Thanks again for help and suggestions.

- deebee

We really need to know what kind of gouge it actually is before giving you advice. If the tang (where the iron enters the handle) is narrow and flat, it is a roughing gouge, and probably should never have been ground to have a swept-back nose—roughing gouges should NEVER be used as bowl gouges. The tang is very weak and can break in a disastrous way. If the tang is round, then it is probably a bowl gouge. Can you post a picture?

If it is a roughing gouge, and you want to grind it like a roughing gouge, then you first need to square the end. Do that by presenting the nose at right angle to a grinding wheel or disc sander. Since the gouge is so wide, it’s probably best to use a disc sander (you could use a belt sander, as long as you can keep it perpendicular to the belt). Square the nose off and then go to the grinder to get your bevel. You can ease the outside tips just a bit to help minimize catches, but nothing remotely resembling a swept-back grind.

-- My mother said that anyone learning to cook needed a large dog to eat the mistakes. As a sculptor of wood I have always tried to keep a fireplace. (Norman Ridenour)

View ForestGrl's profile

ForestGrl

445 posts in 553 days


#7 posted 10-30-2015 06:42 PM

PS: John Lucas, whom you linked above, is an excellent teacher and has several very informative videos. However, that video is about sharpening spindle gouges, not a roughing gouge. Spindle gouges are sharpened similar to bowl gouges. A roughing gouge (flat tang) is meant to be a “spindle roughing gouge” (to discern it from a bowl roughing gouge=dangerous), but the flute generally would be shaped differently. If you would like to “talk” to John directly, send me a private message and I’ll give you a link.

-- My mother said that anyone learning to cook needed a large dog to eat the mistakes. As a sculptor of wood I have always tried to keep a fireplace. (Norman Ridenour)

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

1887 posts in 1601 days


#8 posted 10-30-2015 07:47 PM

Here are some pictures of my old 2” HT roughing gouge, actually measured. Normally slap it in the V-arm, but platform would not be a problem.

Are you talking about a Continental or German style roughing gouge?

Smaller Continental gouges:

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=tools-srby-congou

German Spindle gouge:
http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=packard&Product_Code=100194&Category_Code=

I sharpen them the same way V-arm or platform.

-- Bill

View deebee's profile

deebee

18 posts in 695 days


#9 posted 11-03-2015 08:46 AM


We really need to know what kind of gouge it actually is before giving you advice. If the tang (where the iron enters the handle) is narrow and flat, it is a roughing gouge, and probably should never have been ground to have a swept-back nose—roughing gouges should NEVER be used as bowl gouges.

Yes, the tang is flat. It came brand new with the wings ground back as they are now. The blade is stamped -”Craft Supplies USA Made By Henry Taylor UK”. It measures 2” from outside to outside of the iron.

The end of it is shaped very much like the Continental gouge that Wildwood linked to above, except of course that it is far larger.

I realize that I can always try to sharpen it by eye alone, as i used to do all of my lathe tools before i got the Wolverine….I just thought that there must be something I am missing in using the Wolverine jig to sharpen it. But there is simply no way that I can see, using the V-arm pocket, how to cause the blade—being as it is as wide as it is— to describe a large enough arc for the blade to remain in contact with the grinding wheel throughout the turn.

Thanks again for the responses.

-- Dan B. , Missouri

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

1063 posts in 1456 days


#10 posted 11-03-2015 05:28 PM

Not sure why a 2” roughing gouge would be sharpened like a spindle or bowl gouge, i.e. swept back wings. A roughing gouge typically is square, like wilwood’s pics. I do grind mine with a very slight rear sweep to help with catches. I grind it using a platform.

View ForestGrl's profile

ForestGrl

445 posts in 553 days


#11 posted 11-03-2015 11:06 PM


We really need to know what kind of gouge it actually is before giving you advice. If the tang (where the iron enters the handle) is narrow and flat, it is a roughing gouge, and probably should never have been ground to have a swept-back nose—roughing gouges should NEVER be used as bowl gouges.

Yes, the tang is flat. It came brand new with the wings ground back as they are now. The blade is stamped -”Craft Supplies USA Made By Henry Taylor UK”. It measures 2” from outside to outside of the iron.

The end of it is shaped very much like the Continental gouge that Wildwood linked to above, except of course that it is far larger.

I realize that I can always try to sharpen it by eye alone, as i used to do all of my lathe tools before i got the Wolverine….I just thought that there must be something I am missing in using the Wolverine jig to sharpen it. But there is simply no way that I can see, using the V-arm pocket, how to cause the blade—being as it is as wide as it is— to describe a large enough arc for the blade to remain in contact with the grinding wheel throughout the turn.

Thanks again for the responses.
- deebee

My choice would be to square up the profile and return it to a standard roughing gouge shape. That would solve you sharpening problem, as it is a simple process. Let us know which way you go and how it turns out, curiosity abounds.

-- My mother said that anyone learning to cook needed a large dog to eat the mistakes. As a sculptor of wood I have always tried to keep a fireplace. (Norman Ridenour)

View jeff's profile

jeff

989 posts in 2932 days


#12 posted 11-04-2015 03:07 AM

I have the Wolverine sharpening system.I use the platform for sharpening my roughing gouge.I keep it squared.A couple of rolls side to side and that’s all it takes.I think it would be best to return it to a squared bevel profile.I love using my roughing gouge.

-- Jeff,Tucson,Az.

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