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Forum topic by Charlie75 posted 10-20-2015 11:00 PM 765 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Charlie75

286 posts in 1729 days


10-20-2015 11:00 PM

Let me start by saying I am not sure this post is in the right area. If it isn’t let me know where it should be.

I have been wanting for some time to revamp my dust collection system. A friend referred me to a article in a magazine titled “Best Ever Woodshops” or something like that. The article was titled “dust-defying cyclone”.
There systems work great and they thought it would for me also.

Now I am curious if any of you have built a similar system. I have it about half built and am at the point where I am considering the fan and motor for it. The party that recommended this system used the one that was specified in the magazine article. It comes from Penn State Industries and the model # is DC3. Penn State says that this unit draws 855 CFM and is 1 1/2 horse.

My present dust collector is a Harbor Freight unit that I have used for over 4 yeas and it still runs well. They say there unit is 1550 CFM. I am kind of skeptical of that number but even if it’s 1/4 less it would still be more then the Penn State. The huge plus is that I already have the HF unit and even if I had to replace it there cost in the latest catalog that I received is 209. and with a 20% discount slip it would be less then that. The Penn State is 309. plus shipping.

Forgot to mention that Penn States have a 9” steel impeller. I am not sure what HF’s unit has. Any one know?

My question(s) have any of you every built one of these? If so what motor and fan did you choose? Right now I am leaning toward Harbor Freight.

Sorry this got so long.

Charlie

-- Charlie75, Alto


14 replies so far

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AZWoody

693 posts in 688 days


#1 posted 10-21-2015 04:52 AM

The HF capacity is way overstated. Though 4” ducting at 25 feeet I was only pulling around 375 I think it was before I changed to a 5hp unit.

I really don’t see the penn state model being that much better in my opinion. They might get that cfm right at the opening to the impeller housing but with a 9” impeller, you’ll lose cfm rapidly every foot you go either in ducting or in a house.

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Charlie75

286 posts in 1729 days


#2 posted 10-21-2015 09:45 AM

Thanks AZWoody I have been reading some statements in other forums from guys who seem to be of the same opinion.
I forgot to mention I am running about 16’ of 5” metal duct.
Any suggestions on where to find a larger fan and motor?
Charlie

-- Charlie75, Alto

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Fred Hargis

3940 posts in 1957 days


#3 posted 10-21-2015 11:28 AM

That sounds like the one Wood magazine published, and if it is I built it right after that issue came out. The good part: it really works well with enough motor/impeller behind it, it’s fairly inexpensive to build and it’s actually fairly easy to build. The downside, there were some improvements publishes after the article that are fairly important to getting better performance from the unit. When it was published I already owned a PSI DC250 collector, this was a 2.5HP unit with a 12” impeller so I was larger from the getgo. Because of that I made a few changes of my own. I made the inner vertical pipe 8”, and reduced that down to 6” at the outlet to match the inlet on my DC. I also retro fitted a neutral vane (one of the suggestions) and made a huge difference in the unit. A neutral vane is simply extending the inlet in to the cyclone body past the centerpoint of the vertical pipe. Building it that way from the start would actually simplify the construction. My suggestion would be to go ahead with your HF blower (it has a 10” impeller, I think) and assess the performance. I’ve read some posts from folks who built the same unit with the HF blower and are quite happy with it. One thing I would suggest is you skip the truck filter (again, if I have the right plans in mind) and go to something bigger or vent out.I would also oversize the outlet to reduce the drag on the blower. Good luck with your build!

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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rwe2156

2193 posts in 945 days


#4 posted 10-21-2015 11:49 AM

I agree with Fred use what you already have and see if the system works.

I also think a 1 1/2 HP blower is too small with a cyclone, but that depends on your system req’s.
After a little experience and building a new system with bigger ducts, IMO 2.5 – 3 HP is what you need for a cyclone and 6” ducting.

I am trying to use my 1 1/2 Jet blower/motor over a cyclone it works but not that great.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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AZWoody

693 posts in 688 days


#5 posted 10-21-2015 03:58 PM



Thanks AZWoody I have been reading some statements in other forums from guys who seem to be of the same opinion.
I forgot to mention I am running about 16 of 5” metal duct.
Any suggestions on where to find a larger fan and motor?
Charlie

- Charlie75

I am curious how much actual cfm you’re getting out of a 5” duct. The intake to the impeller on the hf unit is 5” isn’t it? I’m sure you should get a much better cfm from the 5” vs the 4’ duct.

If you do want to go with a new blower and motor, I would recommend 3hp minimum but the cost goes up quite a bit.
Now, I have heard of people adding a larger impeller to the HF unit. There is room in the housing to add either a rikon or a jet impeller. I actually bought one, but then I decided to upgrade to a clearvue unit before I got to putting it together and trying it out.

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BasementShop

69 posts in 764 days


#6 posted 10-21-2015 05:21 PM

I built a dust separator on the Thien principle (see this link) out of Home Depot buckets. It uses the shop vac to do all the sucking.

I am well pleased with my simple set up. I hope this helps you with your bigger version.

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Charlie75

286 posts in 1729 days


#7 posted 10-22-2015 10:07 AM



That sounds like the one Wood magazine published, and if it is I built it right after that issue came out. The good part: it really works well with enough motor/impeller behind it, it s fairly inexpensive to build and it s actually fairly easy to build. The downside, there were some improvements publishes after the article that are fairly important to getting better performance from the unit. When it was published I already owned a PSI DC250 collector, this was a 2.5HP unit with a 12” impeller so I was larger from the getgo. Because of that I made a few changes of my own. I made the inner vertical pipe 8”, and reduced that down to 6” at the outlet to match the inlet on my DC. I also retro fitted a neutral vane (one of the suggestions) and made a huge difference in the unit. A neutral vane is simply extending the inlet in to the cyclone body past the centerpoint of the vertical pipe. Building it that way from the start would actually simplify the construction. My suggestion would be to go ahead with your HF blower (it has a 10” impeller, I think) and assess the performance. I ve read some posts from folks who built the same unit with the HF blower and are quite happy with it. One thing I would suggest is you skip the truck filter (again, if I have the right plans in mind) and go to something bigger or vent out.I would also oversize the outlet to reduce the drag on the blower. Good luck with your build!

- Fred Hargis

Your correct Fred. I was referred to this by two of my friends who supply my wood. The both built this unit and say it works well. One of these guys used the Penn State motor and fan that is recommended and the other guys had a fan and motor of some kind that he got on Craig’s list. Make not known. They both say there collectors work well. I might add however that both of their shops are slightly smaller then mine.
As you suggested, I was planning on using my HF motor and fan. If it doesn’t work all I need to do is bite the bullet and find a bigger unit. I am a little intrigued by the idea of finding a larger impeller. I have read pros and cons so after I get my cyclone done I will look into that idea.
My one problem now is the sheet metal. Home Depot has flat stock but I am not sure of the gauge and they also have 20” galvanized valley role that is .010 according to the sticker on the outside. Not sure how the translates to gauge thickness.
It seems like the flat stock would heave enough but not sure. Again, that is what my friends used for theirs.
So far this has been a fun project and a great diversion from turning bowls and building band saw boxes. lol
Charlie

-- Charlie75, Alto

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Charlie75

286 posts in 1729 days


#8 posted 10-22-2015 10:13 AM

Forgot to add Fred. Yes, this is the unit from the Wood magazine.
Also, my friends used the air filter from a John Deere 4020 (I think I have that right) tractor that they get from NAPA. They say it works well.
Does any one have a copy of the updates on this that they could email me or a link? Or even more written details. I am not following what your telling my Fred.
Charlie

-- Charlie75, Alto

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Fred Hargis

3940 posts in 1957 days


#9 posted 10-22-2015 11:48 AM

I have long since forgotten what all the improvements were that followed as “reader tips” in subsequent issues of Wood. The neutral vane is by far the most important one, and a few others I recall was installing a manometer to gauge the performance (filter clogging, less important IMHO), and a way to muffle some of the noise at the filter. Another one was to put a window in your dust bin to tell when it’s filling up, lastly I remember one about the juncture of the inner vertical pipe at the top right at the outlet, it ends in a 6: pipe matching to a 4” opening with the flat shoulder. The tip was to put a coned transition at that point to reduce drag/turbulence. . They eventually included all the improvements in the plans they sell to the cyclone ($18…. cough cough!). I just spent about 1/2 hour looking through my back issues for the neutral vane thing and can’t find it. I’ll try to explain: the plans have you cut the oddly shaped opening into the side of the cyclone body for the inlet, you will still need that as drawn. But then the plans have you cut a similar pattern on the end of a 6” pipe to fasten around that opening on the body (easier to follow if you’re looking at the plans). You can skip that. Instead take the 6” pipe for the inlet and simply insert it into the body so the end of it gets to the centerline of the vertical inner pipe. Has a huge (really huge) impact on smoothing out the turbulence inside the cyclone body, and makes the separation much better. I’ll spend a little more time later trying to find it, but when they do things as tips/changes it’s not in the index, so it’s a “search each page” effort. One more thing, I think the metal i used was in a 10’ or 20’ roll, and was actually roof flashing that was wide enough to make the metal parts. I seem to think I bought it at HD in the roofing section.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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hairy

2384 posts in 2996 days


#10 posted 10-22-2015 03:04 PM

Spend time and save money, or spend money, it’s your choice. Here’s my set up, and I am pleased with it. That DC was considerably less when I got it. It would probably perform much better with hard ductwork, but this suits my needs.

-- stay thirsty my friends...

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Charlie75

286 posts in 1729 days


#11 posted 10-22-2015 09:10 PM

hairy, if you intended to attach something about your DC set up it’s not there. Would like to see your set up.
Charlie

-- Charlie75, Alto

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hairy

2384 posts in 2996 days


#12 posted 10-22-2015 09:44 PM

OOPS! Sorry

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/66128

-- stay thirsty my friends...

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Charlie75

286 posts in 1729 days


#13 posted 10-23-2015 09:28 AM



OOPS! Sorry

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/66128

- hairy

It’s ok. I can’t count the times I have done the same thing.
I like your set up. Personally I would prefer metal piping over the hose but if this works for you who am I to knock it. What kind of machine (fan and motor) is that. I don’t remember seeing it on the machine. Thanks for the reply.

-- Charlie75, Alto

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hairy

2384 posts in 2996 days


#14 posted 10-23-2015 11:55 AM


What kind of machine (fan and motor) is that. I don t remember seeing it on the machine.
- Charlie75

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/627

I think there have been some changes over the years, but still basically the same. One change I know for sure, this used to be advertised as 120vac, now it’s 240. I’m not sure if the newer motor is the same as the older.

I learned this the hard way. The motor in the DC shown in my review burnt out a few years ago while still in the 5 year warranty. I went round and round with their customer service for a while. Then they told me it burnt up because I was running it on 120 volts instead of 240. The cs guy was saying that according to the manual it must be 240, I was reading my manual that said 120. I sent them copies of my receipt and manual, they sent a new motor.

-- stay thirsty my friends...

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