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Forum topic by Aporiac posted 10-06-2015 04:54 PM 704 views 0 times favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Aporiac

13 posts in 431 days


10-06-2015 04:54 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question

I’m a few months new to woodworking after obtaining a second hand Kity table saw at the start of the summer, but I’m learning slowly, gradually acquiring more skills and tools, and having a lot of fun in the process!

I want to build some garden furniture for a member of my family because a) she needs some, b) she can’t afford to buy, and c) it will involve some new woodworking challenges for me.

I’ve tried to find a set of plans I like, but haven’t come across any that particularly appeal. However, I’ve found a photograph of a wooden garden table and benches that I think look fantastic, and so I’m now determined to copy that design.

And so, I need to move from a single photograph to a set of plans. The only problem is that my visualization skills when it comes to translating from one visual perspective to another are truly lousy – my brain just doesn’t work that way! It seemed to me that there was probably a software tool that can do this job, i.e. distort a photograph taken from one perspective into another perspective (effectively changing the viewpoint), which would then allow me to accurately ‘see’ the shapes of the various components that make up the furniture in the photo. After a bit of searching, I discovered that there IS such a software tool! Unfortunately, I don’t have access to a computer that is capable of running it. The software in question is Adobe Photoshop CC, and the feature is called, “Perspective Warp.”

That’s where the big favour comes in!

Is there any kind soul out there who has a high-spec modern PC or MAC, who also has Photoshop, who would be willing to ‘perspective warp’ the linked photograph for me in order to obtain a side-on view of the table and benches in order to give an accurate reproduction of the shape of the legs?

Yes, I know it’s a big favour, but I thought there was no harm in asking!


20 replies so far

View Scott's profile

Scott

119 posts in 1691 days


#1 posted 10-06-2015 05:10 PM

Perspective warp won’t do a 3D rotation. You can’t extract detail that isn’t in the source image.

I’d search for the standard height of benches and tables and work backwards.

View mahdee's profile

mahdee

3555 posts in 1235 days


#2 posted 10-06-2015 05:11 PM

I don’t. But if you look at the picture, it is easy to see the sides and back views of both the table and benches.

-- earthartandfoods.com

View TheTurtleCarpenter's profile

TheTurtleCarpenter

828 posts in 533 days


#3 posted 10-06-2015 05:39 PM

What would we do without computers.? Take some paper or cardboard and draw the side view to scale having the intersections and seat bottom side shown from an end view. Keep everything to scale and use that as your patterns. The top and bench seat will be easier. Basic table heightis 30” and seat height 15”to 18”. Now as far as widths the top can be about 30-36” and the seat bottom depends on how much you eat. You can also base it off of multiples of the material width your using. This process will add three megaBites to your vision of how it all comes together and how you make the attaching, and material list. Happy Eatin’

-- "Tying shoelaces was way harder than learning to Whistle",,,,,member MWTCA area K. Kentucky

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3950 posts in 1960 days


#4 posted 10-06-2015 05:46 PM

Can’t help with what you ask (just not smart enough), but that is a really cool picnic table!

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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Aporiac

13 posts in 431 days


#5 posted 10-06-2015 05:56 PM



Perspective warp won t do a 3D rotation. You can t extract detail that isn t in the source image.

I d search for the standard height of benches and tables and work backwards.

- Scott

I can see that some of the detail is obscured, but given the symmetry I thought I could manually ‘fill in the blanks’ after the image manipulation. I really just want a reliable starting point that I can proceed from in a systematic manner without requiring any artistic/visualisation skills. However, if PS CC won’t do the job then it’s a blind alley. I was kind of optimistically hoping there was some Photoshop wizz out there who could ‘fix’ the image in a few mouse clicks.

Maybe I’ll have to resort to a bit of modelling with polystyrene foam sheets or similar and see what come out of that.

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Aporiac

13 posts in 431 days


#6 posted 10-06-2015 06:05 PM


What would we do without computers.?

You given me a good idea!

Maybe I just need to find someone who is good at drawing to do some sketches from the photograph, which is probably what I’d have done in the pre-computer age. The fact is when it comes to paper, card, pencils, and absolutely anything that involves free-hand, the end product in my case rarely resembles the thing it should! If there is such a thing as ‘visual dyslexia,’ I have it.

View ColonelTravis's profile

ColonelTravis

1194 posts in 1361 days


#7 posted 10-06-2015 06:42 PM

You can do some amazing stuff with PS, I’ve got the CC version and getting a side-on view is impossible. Any PS warp feature works best with relatively small-ish manipulations. For example, you could move the angle of the back of the rear bench (this is a crappy rush version, but you get the idea):

But you can’t turn the whole thing around to the side. I don’t think it would be that hard to figure out things just by going with this photo alone. You won’t get a 100% match, but make some sketches, get some cardboard or hardboard and work out template shapes you like.

View TheTurtleCarpenter's profile

TheTurtleCarpenter

828 posts in 533 days


#8 posted 10-06-2015 06:58 PM


What would we do without computers.?

You given me a good idea!

Maybe I just need to find someone who is good at drawing to do some sketches from the photograph, which is probably what I d have done in the pre-computer age. The fact is when it comes to paper, card, pencils, and absolutely anything that involves free-hand, the end product in my case rarely resembles the thing it should! If there is such a thing as visual dyslexia, I have it.

- Aporiac

Years ago when I was new to framing, my boss sent myself and his brother to a house to frame the hip roof on a simple 2foot bump out off of a kitchen. He came by at lunch and we were making a mess of it so instead of getting mad he showed us how it come together by popping chalk lines and penciling around 2 by. Then he took me aside and told me any time I run into a problem to just draw it. It clicked for me and I probably have done that 100s of time since. I’ve done many a staircase in the past and if you peel the paint off the walls in those houses you will see my layout for all the parts and panel work.
Jeff

-- "Tying shoelaces was way harder than learning to Whistle",,,,,member MWTCA area K. Kentucky

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

1471 posts in 2105 days


#9 posted 10-06-2015 07:14 PM

I think what you want can be done. (I worked at Intergraph for 20 years.) There are lots of great new software tools since I left INGR 14 years ago.

View BurlyBob's profile

BurlyBob

3695 posts in 1733 days


#10 posted 10-06-2015 07:21 PM

That is a great looking table and benches. Looks like a lot of diagonal lap joints with a mortised stretcher with that pin holding it in place. Another thing you need to think about is the wood your going to use.

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Aporiac

13 posts in 431 days


#11 posted 10-06-2015 08:04 PM



It clicked for me and I probably have done that 100s of time since….
Jeff

- TheTurtleCarpenter

Good story. Being guided by someone with practical knowledge and skills can rarely be improved upon, but it’s probably also true that what clicks for some people doesn’t click so easily for others :-)

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Aporiac

13 posts in 431 days


#12 posted 10-06-2015 08:19 PM


That is a great looking table and benches. Looks like a lot of diagonal lap joints with a mortised stretcher with that pin holding it in place. Another thing you need to think about is the wood your going to use.

- BurlyBob

With my current level of experience I can see that the construction is going to present a few challenges, but that’s part of the appeal. I’ve got some ideas about how to proceed based on research in this forum and others, but I’ve got no doubt that I’ll need to proceed slowly and deliberately while constantly looking out for the hidden bear-traps that always spring up in unfamiliar territory!

Yes, I’ve been thinking about the kind of wood to use as well. I’ve got a local source of English larch that is very good value (the guy grows the trees himself, and does basic rough milling.) It’s only air dried, but I think that should be fine for garden furniture. I’m going to experiment on some samples and see how it looks with various finishes.

One of the biggest challenges is going to be cutting out the bench and table legs because I don’t have a bandsaw, but I’m planning to get a router, learn how to use that, and then make some templates to cut out the required shapes. I’ve found a company that will make an MDF template from a 2D CAD drawing (cheaply!), so I’m probably going to take that approach (but I have a couple of back-up plans!) I have to confess to never having used a router before, but a few months ago I’d never used a table saw either and these days it feels like a good and familiar friend!

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Aporiac

13 posts in 431 days


#13 posted 10-06-2015 08:48 PM



You can do some amazing stuff with PS, I ve got the CC version and getting a side-on view is impossible. Any PS warp feature works best with relatively small-ish manipulations. For example, you could move the angle of the back of the rear bench (this is a crappy rush version, but you get the idea):

But you can t turn the whole thing around to the side. I don t think it would be that hard to figure out things just by going with this photo alone. You won t get a 100% match, but make some sketches, get some cardboard or hardboard and work out template shapes you like.

- ColonelTravis

Thank you for that.

I think the consensus answer to my question is, “That won’t work – you’ll have to find another way!” I’m beginning to suspect that’s the correct answer, lol.

View Ghidrah's profile

Ghidrah

667 posts in 689 days


#14 posted 10-06-2015 09:25 PM

There are a few basic concepts that relate to pretty much all types of furniture, chair seat and tabletop height, Dime to dollars the tabletop is 36-40”WX80-84”L. Look to the base of the TT and you see the cross braces, which are set back from the edge of the TT. The “X” legs which attach to the end cross braces is set back from the end of the braces. Assume 2, 2” set backs, = 4” TT 36-40” legs 32-36”WX28.5H. The surface design is obvious your only real concern is duping the leg design which is a simple cross half lap.

-- I meant to do that!

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Aporiac

13 posts in 431 days


#15 posted 10-06-2015 09:31 PM


There are a few basic concepts that relate to pretty much all types of furniture, chair seat and tabletop height, Dime to dollars the tabletop is 36-40”WX80-84”L. Look to the base of the TT and you see the cross braces, which are set back from the edge of the TT. The “X” legs which attach to the end cross braces is set back from the end of the braces. Assume 2, 2” set backs, = 4” TT 36-40” legs 32-36”WX28.5H. The surface design is obvious your only real concern is duping the leg design which is a simple cross half lap.

- Ghidrah

Thank you for your elucidation – a very helpful breakdown.

You’re also right that the real concern is duping the leg design (and the back support extensions on the benches). I want to make sure I’ve got that right at an early stage, rather than discovering I haven’t after everything is constructed! The mechanical stuff I think I can work my way through surely and steadily, but I’m less confident when it comes to preserving the design aesthetic because I’m conscious of some of my limitations. However, I’m sure I’ll get there in the end, particularly with the aid of the pointers I’m getting from people here. I really appreciate the feedback.

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