Magazine Cover

I normally do not pay that much attention. Did not even notice. I agree that the two concepts do not go together…

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

I guess I didn’t pay any attention either. Tell Chris Swartz. I think he’ll listen to your concerns. I too fail to see the connection.

-- Thos. Angle

I might do that Thomas – I just can see the need for sex in saling woodproducts.

-- You can't get a hug from Facebook.

Also, you may want to send a PM to http://lumberjocks.com/jocks/PWGlen

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

Didn’t notice either… I guess we’re becoming desensitized to such things anymore, not that I have a problem with the use of “sexy”. Sex yes. Sexy no.

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

I don’t mind sexy being used to describe a finish.

I have called more then one pork butt sexy after pulling it off the smoker.

Sensual might be a slightly better word to use, but to tell the truth I have used the word “sexy” to describe element of design. I think I’ll be a bit more accurate and circumspect in my choice of adjectives going forward.

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

Doug and Josh are not alone here. I have to admit to being guilty of using the word sexy to describe a number of things. But I’ve always considered it to be complimentary, the thought never crossed my mind that someone might be bothered by it.

-- I've cut that board three times and it's still too short!

guilty as well
but I totally agree with you, Betsy. They are the media and as such contribute to our social makeup. The more we can stop this in the media the better. Not the place.

Thank you for being so aware!

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I may be to sensitive or maybe it’s a “woman thing” as my late father would say. I just don’t expect the word, the concept or the visions the word connotates to be associated with woodworking. Perhaps the word(s) are becoming like the word “love” – “I love your sweater” “I love the way you decorated your shop.”

As far as being complimentary – I can see it in some cases. “I think your eyes are sexy, etc.” but my finish job—- nah. I’d be more complimented to hear someone say “wow what a great finish” or “wow – I can’t get my finish that nice.” Something along that lines. If someone told me I had a sexy finish on a project I’d think they were up to something.

I just don’t know. Maybe I’m to old fashioned or to cold. Not sure which. But I can’t see “sexy” and woodworking together.

How many of you guys would really tell a woman her finish job is sexy? After all there are better pick up lines out there!!!!! Would you say that to another guy?

Still interested in other LJ’s thoughts. Perhaps you can educate me as to why I should not be bother with it! :-)

-- You can't get a hug from Facebook.

Sexy is innocuous. One of it’s common definitions is excitingly appealing; glamorous. My mother uses it as an adjective to describe just about anything. She’s 72 and a retiring medical specialist and by no means feels oppressed with the use of the word, when used in context. One of the big problems with an over sensitive yet desensitized society is that we take everything personally. So, excitingly appealing, to describe a woodworking finish? That works for me.

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

Again, not to condone a misappropriation of a word’s true meaning, but I think we can thank the Advertising business for the widened use of the term. Sex sells. Common items will have some sexual allusion connected to them because indeed the psyche (at least the male psyche) will hone in to a tighter focus on something that has sexual connotations. And if one is looking at a rack of WW magazines, you can bet your bottom dollar there is going to be augmented focus on that cover.

Be it German automobiles, shaving cream or chewing gum, the sex sells idea is commonly seen in the industry. It appeals to the way men have been hard-wired since the species began to propagate, and perhaps the advertising business is the second oldest profession. Is it right? No. Does it work…afraid so.

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

War is bad.
Hate is bad.
Bastardizing the mother tongue is bad.
Nit picking is bad.
... not necessarily in this order.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

I guess because it’s not a misappropriation of the word’s true meaning, but a societal willingness to accept another meaning of the word out of context. No offense, Douglas, as I am in total agreement that the concept of “sex sells,” leaves me having to answer questions of my kids that I don’t think I should have to answer just yet…it’s just that, in this context, the sexy finish is something that attracts interest and attention…not sexually attractive. A woodworking finish cannot be seen as sexually attractive, but it can be seen as attracting interest and attention and in itself appealing. In the English language, I’m not sure the phrase, “true definition,” even applies here. By the context of the phrase, there is the implication that the definition that you hold true is the true one. If there are 4 or 5 definitions, which one is true? Is the first more true than the last? Or all they all true, when used in proper context?

Sorry, I hate getting into discussion like this in print. They are much better in person. I’m smiling and discussing this more from a position of curiosity and not with the intent of creating animosity.

Cheers!

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

Bob – you’re cool!!!

Tom – can’t say I like discussions like this in print either. They are much better in person, agree with you there. My big problem with being in print is my words are out there for the world to see and it just may cast the final vote that I really am off my rocker.

All that considered I still can’t put sexy and woodworking together. Just not a good fit, for any reason. I’d rather keep sexy with “O” magazine and keep Bob Flexner’s finishing tips solidly under woodworking.

-- You can't get a hug from Facebook.

I’m pretty neutral on this, I think. If it’s not meant in a demeaning way then I will take it as a compliment. So many things, to me, are sexy: movement, actions, textures, lines, touch…. all can be sexy. Translate these human characteristics to art / wood and the same response can be triggered.

You asked “why you should not be bothered by it”. My question in return would be whether the “bother” comes from a generic belief or is it from personal experience? (Either way, you are entitled to your opinion and hopefully we will all remember to respect that and not use the word sexy to describe your work).

As a Life Guide, I’d love to see if there is more behind your perspective of the word. I had a client who detested the use of the word “woman”. As we talked about it, she disclosed that her father used the word frequently as a put-down to her mother. Yah, I wouldn’t like the word either. But being aware of the past lets you choose how to respond in the future. —not to say that the use of “sexy’ is appropriate. Just curious.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

im not sure its the definition of the word sexy thats really offensive but more the fact that we are so bombarded with sex and advertising. that being said i do quite often and did just minutes ago in a post about some queen ann legs on someones project. refer to myself as an old wood pervert. ill admit that i can get pretty exited over a well stacked pile of walnut !

I suppose perspective plays a lot into it. I’m not sure if it is that I find the word or the issue offensive/distasteful.

Mr. Trim I think some of the bombardment is some of what I find troubling in this. We’ve come to misuse words in language – sexy is just one of them. I think some of it also is the disappointment in a magazine that does not typically use this catch word using it. It may be that I was so stunned by it that I was offended, not sure.

MsDebbie – I’m sure my past plays a little into this as you can never escape your past (I’ve been a victim of violence)- no matter how hard you try. I’d like to think that I recognize this and am really offended by the use by the magazine from an intellectual perspective and not necessarily completely from physical experience. I know to make money the magazine needs to sell issues to more than just subscribers – they need to catch people at the checkout stands and sex sells.

I’m glad that LJ’s feel free to express their opinions. Would be interested to read more and hope that no one takes offense at the other’s opinion or perspective. Perhaps we’ll learn something. Now that’s a concept I can wrap my arms around!

-- You can't get a hug from Facebook.

for me, I think that professionals, and media (etc) have a responsibility to choose their words carefully. The media (tv, news, magazines, movies, music …) has, although made the discussing of sex and related issues a non-taboo subject which is good, has crossed the line and uses sex to exploit human beings (especially women) and contributes to unhealthy living in our society.

It is not necessary for a woodworking magazine to use the word sexy to promote a sale.
I think, too, that the word sexy tends to be used in our society to refer to women – and although in one sense this is a compliment, it often is demeaning.

I’m with you on this Betsy

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

It’s just a word for me. Different people find different things objectionable.

If they had put “7 God awful finishes” there would be people to object to that.

To each his own. (should I have put “his/her” own?) Why bother when you know exactly
what I intended to say. Just like Manhole covers. Does Womanhole cover sound better to you?

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

It’s manhole cover because men predominated—- I don’t find manhole cover objectionable at all. In fact, I think there are a lot of words that are purely what they are because of the way society is tiered and how it has evolved. It is what it is. I have no problem with manhole, chairman, policeman, fireman, politically correct is, to me anyway, just a bunch of hogwash.

I just find using the wrong word for the effect is just this side of dumb. But one of the first things I’m sure magazine folks learn is that sex sales. I just find it sad that it’s made it into woodworking. Seems unnecessary.

Just my thoughts.

-- You can't get a hug from Facebook.

the more I think about this discussion … the more complex it becomes.
Although I’m not offended by the use of the word “sexy” in general I still think all forms of media need to start being more aware and more cautious with what they produce.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

If you don’t think a finish that is as smooth as silk underwear isn’t sexy there is something wrong with you.
It’s also sensual.
And, like sex, it requires a lot of work and attention to detail to be good at it.
(There are those, however, who just blunder around – at both.)

My $.03

-- No piece is cut too short. It was meant for a smaller project.

I apologize to my fellow LJs for the hornet’s nest I have apparently opened up here. I can’t keep up with the level of intelligence this post apparently has dipped to. I’ll try to stay away from these hot button items in the future and keep with just woodworking.

Sorry – this will most definetly be my last entry to this post. Happy debating.

-- You can't get a hug from Facebook.

Oh Betsy…LOL…the problem with asking others opinions, is that occasionally you’ll get one that isn’t the same as yours. Nobody means to offend, or to maliciously disagree with you. They are just giving their opinions. Your participation in this discussion would be conspicuously absent. Say, did you get that McAfee uninstalled?

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

personally, I think this was a great discussion – wood related – and an opportunity to help bring awareness to an issue of the ongoing perception of women in our western society.

I am sure that most men don’t see that there is an issue. Men aren’t bombarded with a zillion messages every day that they need to be perfect, that they need to be sexy, that they need to flaunt their bodies, that they need to be sexy-looking for a man, that they need to change their hair, their hips, their eyes, their skin, .... that they need to fit into a size 0 dress, that they have to wear high heels, that their breasts need to show and their butt cheeks need to show and their bellies (which better be flat) need to show…

Hopefully overcoming this image will be the next major growth in the journey of equality for women.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

If this were with a group of friends over a bottle of wine (or root beer, in my case) would you get up and leave?

You will find this all over this site.

-- No piece is cut too short. It was meant for a smaller project.

I agree with Betsy and MsDebbieP, but i’m just an old fashioned guy.

-- We Mackem and Tackem.

Wow——LJ’s sure respond fast with private messages. I said that I was not going to respond to this post any longer – but to respond to the private messages – before I leave for church here goes.

Sawdust – nope I would not get up and leave the table if we were sitting around as friends having a root beer (I don’t do beer either – smells nasty). I would steer the conversation back to the original topic and it that did not work—I’d break out the playing cards and get a game of hand and foot going. No sense ruining friendships over a topic of any sort. A rousing game of hand and foot and the topic is completly forgotten in the competitive desire to win a game.

However, in cyberspace steering topics that are so touchy like this one is harder. I’m not that adept at putting my thoughts and opinions into type written words so I am definitly the one to get a topic going but cannot sustain it – my shortcoming of course – but there it is. I wish I were more elegant with words, but sitting around the table, you have eye contact, body language and tone of voice to gauge what and where the conversation is going and therefore, it’s easier to control and or end. Cyberspace is only one diminsional and, therefore, you must be more adept and have a better command of the written word than I have. So I relinquish this topic to those more polished (I don’t use the word intelligent here – lest anyone think I do not consider myself intelligent – I do—- just not in this medium) in their communications skills – I’ll sit back, read and maybe learn a thing or two about communicating in this new arena.

No hard feelings on my part, I’ve not been offended, in anyway, except as the original post describes of being offended/shocked to see “sexy” on a woodworking magazine.

Ok – off to church.

-- You can't get a hug from Facebook.

Sawdust, I think you hit the nail on the head, right there (hey cool – a woodworking connection) ... the original post wasn’t about casual conversation with friends, which is what this site is, actually.. .a place where friends can discuss issues, debate issues, and share personal thoughts, insights, and perspectives.
The original post was about the issue as it appeared in a magazine – the media.

Everyone, as always, will have their opinions about a subject and ask I stated earlier, we, each, need to look at our beliefs and see whether they come from an objective place (as objective as one can be, that is) or is it strongly tied to an emotional response triggering past memories?

Information sharing, opinion sharing is just that : sharing. You walk into a conversation and you listen and share and then you leave with new information. Sometimes the discussion will validate your beliefs, other times your beliefs will be shaken up and you will change your opinion, and sometimes you will be left with a feeling of unease but still hold onto your original beliefs.

That’s life; that’s human.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Yeah, and at this party there are 1,837 people to comment.
238 saw it and less than 30 commented.

Woodworking, for better or worse, is largely a male attraction. The females who are attracted to it add a degree of beauty that most men don’t have. We are all better off because of it.

But the media markets to the masses and the mass is mainly men. Or manly men ;>)

If you elect to be in a man’s world then, IMHO, you have to be able to put up with what attracts men.

We can now join this with the thread on environmentalism where one person can make a difference on how they harvest cocobolo and one woman can change how the magazine business markets to men LOL

Betsy’s concern about her words being immortalized here is worth commenting on. Ms. DebbieP, you and I had this discussion when I first joined. We aren’t here to hurt but to help.

-- No piece is cut too short. It was meant for a smaller project.

my journey is about “learning” and I sure do learn lots in these discussions :)

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

This has been a fun read. Betsy, don’t you quit talking, you are quite eloquent and have a lot to contribute to this forum. Sometimes a conversation just goes where it will. Allow all melodies and hear all tunes.

-- Thos. Angle

I almost hate to bring this up… for fear of adding fuel to this fire, bringing up supposed generation gaps, or whatever. And while magazines might claim otherwise, studies (and conventional wisdom) indicate that women really get dressed up for other women (for a myriad of reasons.) Women don’t have to try that hard to impress a man. (- the right man… well, that’s a whole different issue.)

I still think there are sexy finishes… just none that come out of my shop ;( Some LJ’s have succeeded there though – skip back through the projects, or pop open a FWW or Woodwork magazine, you’ll see some.

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

Oooo, another fence to sit on and I came late to the party!

I don’t see anything “wrong” with the use of sexy, in general, to describe things that have nothing to do with sex. A common derivation in meaning that words take is to be used for the opposite of their original meaning. Give it another generation or two and the general interpretation of sexy may mean “something you wouldn’t slide next to in your skivvies for a million bucks”.

On the other hand, IMO the obvious reasons for which it ended up on the magazine cover are sleazy marketing tactics at best, and I think we’d like to think of our hobby as being a bit above that or somehow more “mature” (not an age reference). The editors ought to hear about it if you didnt care for it, no matter your reasons. The magazine business is a pretty competative one; they do listen when they make choices their readers don’t like as long as they hear about it.

I appreciate the opportunity for discussion, Betsy; you articulate your cause and case quite well, no need to apologize or bow out. Thanks for sparking the topic! :)

-- --==[ Pappy ]==--