Need repository for Drawings sketchup ..etc..

Snowdog,

Obviously I’m all for sharing models. I get to benefit from other’s good designs and once I’ve finished up a model it doesn’t cost me anything to share it out to the world.

It sounds like there are a couple issues to be looked at; the technical issues of sharing files, and the social issues of what’s “fair”. For the first part, the mechanics of sharing files, it sounds like there are multiple possible solutions.

- A centralized repository, everyone uploads their models to a central bank and that’s where they live.

- A distributed repository, the actual files live scattered throughout the internet and the links to the files are centralized.

- A distributed repository and distributed links. The files live wherever they where uploaded and the links are scattered throughout lumberjocks attached to various posts.

- I heard a rumor sketchup might have a “warehouse” capability built in to share files. Maybe there is already a built in solution to this question.

I don’t know what the implications to Martin and typical users would be for any of these models. I’m game to give any of them a shot.

The second issue, the question of fairness. I understand the idea of trying to encourage people to contribute, if you want to take, you ought to give. But I guess I’m against the idea of counting “take vs give” on a file by file basis. The concern I have is that not everyone contributes in the same way, particularly with creative work. Some people are going to be strong designers and modelers and have lots of models to contribute and others are going to be less proficient at modeling but have other ways of contributing. For example, one person might be a great designer, come up with a quick idea, sketch it up, and upload it. Someone else might not be as strong at modeling but might be a whiz at workflow, assembly, joinery, whatever. Person number 2 downloads the file, looks it over, maybe comes up with who knows what great idea to make the whole thing better, posts back a comment and everyone benefits. And maybe person number 2 never uploads a file ever.

Anyhow. I’m not looking to make a lot of work for people but I am interested in the idea of sharing models.

I think this is a great idea. If everyone contributes what they can we could build a great library of “components”. Give and take is essential to this concept, and contribution would be great no matter what the level. Someone might have a great idea for a piece, but not be able to model it well. Other users could download the basic concepts represented and refine it into a detailed model. Also once the library gets built you can use other models as a jumping off point for your own ideas or models, or use it like the 3d wharehouse, download pieces to use in your model as accesories. I personally use the Google 3d wharehouse all the time. Even if what I find is rudimentary or not so well modeled or detailled, I can use it as a starting point and modify/improve it to my liking for what I am using it for. Case in point, the screws in my exploded detalis in my SU contest entry were from the wharehouse. I didnt want to draw them from scratch, and the model was good except for the texture, so a small change and I was able to increase the detail level of my model without hours spent modeling a screw!
Lets put this together ….and also for you guys that are just learning Sketchup, it is very helpfull if you can download a well modeled piece to just look at and investigate, to learn from..see how pieces are grouped and to build your own library of textures and materials!

-- David, South Windsor, CT "I love the smell of sawdust in the morning"

Wouldn’t it make more sense to just add another category similar to “Projects” where the file can be previewed and discussed, but the hosting of the actual file is stored and one of the many free storage sites (similar to using photobucket for photos)?

I would just call the category “SketchUps”.

-- Hard work spotlights the character of people; some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all!

the “free storage sites” sounds like a good idea. When we asked Martin about posting pictures on our blogs the same way that we do the projects, he said that the cost of the extra space required was a barrier to this upgrade.
I would think that Sketchup files etc would fall under the same “cost” category.

We already have the “video” category.. perhaps a “plans” or “files” category would help to organize this great idea.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I’m not sure what the average file size for these models are but I have quite a bit of unused space (almost 100GB available) on my hosting server with plenty of unused bandwidth (nearly 1 Terabyte available) for file transfers. I’ll donate if they need to be housed away from the LJ server as long as there are enough controls in place that only LJs can view the links.

-- --==[ Pappy ]==--

File size is based purely on model size, complexity and textures.

-- David, South Windsor, CT "I love the smell of sawdust in the morning"

what the heck is a terabyte?

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

1000 gigabytes

-- David, South Windsor, CT "I love the smell of sawdust in the morning"

If you guys start posting Sketchup for woodworking I’ll buy whatever size hard drive I need! o-please please please! ;)

-- The Gnarly Wood Shoppe

great idea. there many shareware conversion programs available. I’m for anything that would promote woodworking as a hobby or ambition.

-- work from your heart and your spirit will live forever

I think we should be looking beyond a terabyte!!! I have alot of good ideas

-- RMH Designs

I’m thinking – without looking at the Sketchup site, that there may be a way we can start a group, and post there. Like a Flikr group, or how we use Blip or YouTube to host our videos – though the one caveat may be keeping it LJ’s only.

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

Not sure if Martin has been following this thread or not. It really is not expensive to get file space and bandwidth anymore. We can start with what I have currently and address getting more when the time comes. That keeps the download stress off the main LJ server and doesn’t eat up all our chatty bandwidth :) Also means some of that unused stuff I’m already paying for finally gets legitimate use, LOL

Just did a little experiment on Sketchup file sizes and here’s the results:

- coloradoclimber’s lathe bench, raw model: 84kb

- coloradoclimber’s lathe bench, compressed: 46kb

- Thomas Porter’s thorsen, raw model: 144kb

- Thomas Porter’s thorsen, compressed: 64kb

- Google complete Denver Intl Airport, architectural model: 6mb

- Google complete Denver Intl Airport, compressed: 5.1mb

So you can see depending on variables like textures used and model complexity, we can save between 20-50% of our space requirements just by requiring that files be compressed prior to upload (I may be able to have the code do it automatically during the upload process).

I think I can set it up to make sure its for LJs only, just need to get a few techie details from Martin. If that works then you’d have to log into LJ first and then click a custom link to authenticate into the file-store. Give me a chance to message Martin about some details and make sure I’m not overstepping boundaries, and if its cool I’ll work up a little prototype for testing.

Meantime it sounds like a lot more of us need to get up to speed on modeling :)

-- --==[ Pappy ]==--

I’m till learning my way around sketchup but… doesn’t google have place to store/share your files?

-- I've cut that board three times and it's still too short!

Added an internal storage system specific to LumberJocs would be a value add and should be only for registered Lumberjocs. I would not be uposed to paying a small subscription fee to help subsidize the cost of extra space and bandwidth that would be needed.

With the right marketing you could get a few advertisers to cover the cost upfront or after a proof of concept showed the popularity of the functionality. It really depends on where and what Martin wants for the site in the near furture and far.

Speaking of what Martin wants for this site, short and long term, is there a mission statement posted on the site that clearly states the goals and values of Lumberjocs?

-- "so much to learn and so little time"..

Shaun, Google has a warehouse, but if you’ve ever tried to find anything there it’s not easy to navigate at all. It is mostly focused on their Google Earth projects to make 3D maps of cities and architectural components. Having a service geared towards and organized for woodworking would be far better. Plus, I personally think LJs should be the ones to benefit from an effort like this – it’s just another added benefit of being a member of the #1 woodworking community :)

-- --==[ Pappy ]==--

Great idea….especially as and added value of subscription service. We need to start making Martin some money for all his efforts here.

The google warehouse is a mess. Lots of good content and lots of bad, tough to seperate. None of it focused on the woodworker. There are lots of possibilities for this. From fully dimensioned plans to commonly used components in detail suitable for woodworking.

-- Bob, Carver Massachusetts, Sawdust Maker http://www.capecodbaychallenge.org

Given that Martin has now set out his vision and concerns, in particular as it applies to this idea, we probably ought to just used offsite storage for now and link to the files in our posts. I’ll still donate storage space if anyone needs it. Just send me a private message and I’ll give ya some instructions on where and how to upload.

Dont forget to add the “sketchup” tag to your posts :)

-- --==[ Pappy ]==--

I think it’s a great idea – in fact I think this is woodworking of the future. Imagine a low cost home CNC router complementing your set of large tools. Download a sketchup plan, create a cutlist automatically, send it to the cnc router and you practically have the replicator from Star Trek.

I’m currently working on some sketchup plugins specifically for woodworking. I’m helping to extend the “CutList and Materials” plugin to also do a cutlist layout ( starting with just sheet goods for now and expanding to boards later ). I think it would be good to have a woodworking specific repository and plugin section.

Maybe Google would be willing to sponsor a repository? Has anyone asked them?

-- Steve, New Zealand, www.steveracz.com

Some common place to put designs would be great. Even if you only look at them to see how something was done. Not too sure how a set of reusable components would really play out, but we can try. I would love to peruse through some other’s designs and see what might be borrowed. It seems like it would be very helpful.

I have a CNC and have been trying (let’s call that a limited try) to figure out how to port Sketchup into a CAM program. Sketchup’s dxf export (Pro version only of which I only have the trial) has a bit to be desired. I am not really into 3D carving, but more into what they call 2.5D. Think of a rear chair leg with its angled back and all the various mortises. Or a chair’s crest rail with the curve and it’s mortises on that curve. Right now I am designing a conceptual chair in Sketchup, and then redrawing the main components in Alibre (free version, nice program) for import into my CAM. Not what I really want, but it is the only way I know as we speak.

Steve

-- Stevethepeeve -- I'm no rocket surgeon

I’ve tried to read this thread cafefully, so my apologies if I’ve missed something, but why not just create a “Collection” on Google’s 3D Warehouse called “LumberJocks”. It would filter out all the other stuff thats there and the Lumberjock site could simple provide a persistent link to it across many of the pages to easily get to it.

Just for the heck of it. I went to Google Sketchup 3D Warehouse and created a “collection” called Lumberjocks. I then added linked project that I uploaded a while back to it.

Seems to me that there isn’t any reason we could try to use the same LumberJock Collection to only post thier Sketchup files here.

Just a thought…

-- -- JR

Great idea John. I was not aware of the Collections feature of the Google 3D Warehouse.

Here’s the LumberJocks - Project Plan Repository created by John.

We will have attachments feature in the future but this is great way to organize LJ sketchup models on Google. Going to add the link to Stickies.
Thanks.

-- Martin, http://lumberjocks.com | My Facebook: http://profile.to/msojka

I am still struggling trying to learn SU. Problem is I don’t have the time to devote to it (and I know it would save time in the future…)

LumberJocks – Project Plan Repository created by John seems like a great idea. I am with Rikkor, i wish I had more time to learn the feature set and how to use it. 5 more years to retire :) then I’ll have to much time I fear :)

-- "so much to learn and so little time"..

I like the idea of a sketchup repository, however, like it has been mentioned before, not everyone is a sketchup jock AND a lumberjock. Perhaps, we want to have a repository or forum that is more universal in that you can store your plans in any format. I like Sketchup, but I also use CAD, Powerpoint, and pieces of scrap paper (which can be scanned).

I think we also need to think of the legal issues. If you scan a plan that you paid for or found in a magazine, you may have violated a copyright. Whatever the repository, it should have an approval method or disclaimer stating that the design/plan is free from copyright or subject to some GPL like protection.

Also, I think adding links to places where you can find plans (free or pay) is a useful idea, since sometimes people are willing to pay for the plans. Sometimes, merely the picture of an item is enough for me to design something similiar.

What do you all think? What ways can we avoid the legal headaches and yet serve our group? And do the projects we post, present any legal issues already?

p.s. no I’m not a lawyer, I just don’t want to see this site suffer because we violated a copyright.

the topic of copyright has been discussed before. For me, it is very important to respect someone’s creativity and work by not “taking it” without permission.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I don’t think a give and take model will work…. The internet is founded on contribution but as it has been stated, some contribute in other ways. Plus, if you do that, you’ll get a lot of garbage from people submitting anything to get a model.

I’m fairly fluent with SU, and I have no problems sharing what I have and design in the future. Just reading the site and getting ideas from the project pics and blogs is all the give and take I require :)

With that said, I tried to upload some models I have and could not find a way to upload to the LJ collection at the 3d Warehouse…..

Any hints?

JC

PS. As for the legal, let the lawyers sort it out. If you have the time and money to take me to court over an end table design, well…..good luck…..

-- Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan

I think a repository of shared plans would be a wonderful resource for LJs. I agree with Coloradoclimber that it would be unreasonable to assume everyone is equally proficient at design. I also don’t know if requiring 1:1 or some ratio of contributed plans to downloaded plan is all that practical.

Integrity to be a strong value among LJs. Whatever we come up with, needs to be simple and addresses copyrighted material.

One final concern, it is possible that a LJ may be willing to share a design with other LJs, but wants to restrict distribution because the plan may have value for that designer outside LJ. How do we protect that interest?

These are some of my thoughts.

Dalec

Ok, I’ll admit that this is far from a perfect plan. It was just something that seemed like it might work for some, but not all. So in the interest of “successive approximation”, I created the collection. If nothing else, it gives us something tangible to continue the discussion. If it doesn’t work, no harm, no foul.

It seems that there’s an unlikely hitch that I didn’t expect, whomever is the owner of the collection must approve models submitted by others. I don’t have a problem doing this, but I missed this when I read the directions.

Here’s the verbiage from Googles 3D Warehouse FAQ’s outlining how/who a collection must only have one owner: Question: How do I add or remove models and collections from a 3D Collection? Answer: Only the owner of a collection may add models or collections to the collection. However, anyone using the 3D Warehouse can suggest a model or collection be included in any 3D Collection. If you’d like to suggest a model or collection be included in a collection, please visit the collection you wish to see updated and click the “Contact the Owner” link to make your suggestion. If you don’t see this option, the owner has elected to not be contacted. When contacting the owner be sure to include the URL of the model or collection to be added in your request. You can request that a model or collection is removed from a collection using this form as well.
=====================
After reading this, I looked for a link that says “Contact the Owner”, but since I’m the owner, it must not be visible to me. Please let me know if you don’t see this. I recheck the permissions and all should be well.

Slightly off topic… but, THANKS to you ALL for letting me jump into this thread, and what a positive experience it’s been for me in just a few days since I joined.
I’ve been a member of many social networking and sharing sites, but this is the warmest, most genuine bunch of folks I ran across. Ok, I’ll stop blathering. Thanks for listening.

-- -- JR

I’m not technologically efficient.(not even sure I spelled it right) I like the concept but I guess I don’t know how to post a plan or sketches. I also like the give and take concept but I don’t know that I have much to offer, or the ability to share it if I did. Most of what I do lately is turning. I could share a curve but couldn’t draw it out haha
I’d love to be able to look at how something was made, even if I didn’t want to make one. I envision looking at similar ideas to see how best I might make something work.
I have no doubt that some of you are quite talented and will sort this out and make it work.
I’m looking forward to it.
Another great idea that seems to be coming to life before our eyes~

-- CaptnA - "When someone hurts you, write it in the sand so the winds of forgiveness will scatter the memory... "

Thot I’d bump this and see what responds.

? Does sketchup support .dwg files?

Reason for asking…..one of the problems we had was getting CAD at an affordable price while still being able to work with autocad files.

We chose (at my behest) Turbocad. We are able to work with clients that use autocad (...btw….not capitalizing the ‘a’ in autocad is my puny effort to snub that particular s/w….).

Since Sketchup seems to be the CAD of choice in this thread….I would suggest continuing to do so IF it supports .dwg files. This would make the sharing part really universal.

We have found that not being able to share files was really cramping our style….and I would hate to see that here. I think many w/w’s would benefit from embracing a wee bit o’tech. Making sure that a universal format was used might promote that for those who are abit shy.

-- arborial reconfiguration specialist