I was following a thread about the healthcare bill …It disappeared suddenly. Did we get moderated? Was the thread removed for some reason?
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
When i get together with other woodworking entreprenuers i expect the latest govt policies that affect us to be discussed along with woodwork. Maybe a different title like “Health care reform will further decimate the Woodworking Industry” would make the moderators cut?
-- miles125, Alabama.."Architecture is frozen music""
Need a break from all the standing and wood dust? Chat with your Forum Friends about their projects, their life, their philosophies, and get to know each other better. Whether you drink Coffee, or Soda Pop, grab a cup/can, and enter the world of our Forum Coffee Lounge.
I can only guess as to the reasoning behind that. In retrospect I guess it’s to be expected. In such a forum of international interest one cannot really expect persons outside of the USA to take interest in nor suffer the tedious discussions related to purely American issues or values.
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
I personally have no complaints about this having been moderated out – Martin’s site – Martin’s rules, Martin Rulez!
But @ mics_54… I’m outside the US but I am interested in discussions related to issues outside Portugal and outside Europe – the news gives me one version (is it true?), but the people here are “real”, and, at least at some level, “normal”, so those views are interesting, and often informative, for us “foreigners”. And, as RockyTopScott says, to read or not to read is optional.
One has to wonder why all the rest of off topic posts arent removed…perhaps it’s a case of poltical bias?
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
Martin knows that political discussions usually turn ugly, eventually leading to individuals taking personal pot-shots at one another. Then the personal differences in politics start pouring over into even non-political posts, as enemies make little digs at each other at every opportunity. Soon, all the infighting starts to make the site an unpleasant place for the other 95% of us, and we go elsewhere. Traffic on the site diminishes, advertising revenue goes out the window, and Martin is out of business.
It is a thin line Martin has to walk. He allows a lot of leeway in the coffee lounge chat, and I certainly cannot blame him for pulling an occasional post when he determines it is in the best interest of the site to do so.
Ahh…well that explains it..the censure of lucid discussion of adults nearly twice his age was more a revenue motivation than an ideological one. I totally understand.
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
That’s a rather extreme interpretation of the situation Dan. Adults understand that not everything should be allowed and the protection of the core takes precedence. Martin has shown both restraint and wisdom and I’m sure age has nothing to do with it.
-- When you give someone a chance it may well be their last.
I’m with you Martin. Keep the political BS off the site. I get bombarded with all that from tv and newspapers. That’s one of the things that makes this site such a pleasant diversion. There needs to be somewhere to go to get a rest from all the turmoil. Thank You for this site and the rules you run it by.
Martin, it was charlie that infered that the decision was perhaps motivated by dimminished site traffic..not I. He stated
Soon, all the infighting starts to make the site an unpleasant place for the other 95% of us, and we go elsewhere. Traffic on the site diminishes, advertising revenue goes out the window, and Martin is out of business.
I have no idea why the post was removed because you failed to reveal that when asked. I have only pointed out that there are many other posts that are “off topic” and still remain. Guess I shouldn’t have asked. Apparently it’s also a verboten subject.
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
Politics would be fine with me if there weren’t so many politicians.
Some of the other hobby sites I used to visit regularly did not censure political discussions like this. As a result, I no longer go to those sites because I don’t get to read about the hobby, I get to read what a arm-chair-congressman has to say. A big hats off to Martin for keeping this a hobby site.
We have to realize that when it gets out of hand (or it seems like it will), then some stuff just needs to stop.
OK…I’m sorry if anyone thought I meant Martin doesn’t have a great website. I’ll shutup now.
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
Here’s the blog of rules. Note that it says specifically No politics or religion unless it is SPECIFICALLY related to woodworking. All off topics should be posted in the coffee lounge, and any discrepencies should be taken private. All the off topics that you currently see such as the humor do not fall into the religion or political section, and therefore are allowed. I don’t see why this is in discussion. Thanks for a great site Martin. http://lumberjocks.com/msojka/blog/4436
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
Dan, Charlie mentioned advertising revenue and “out of business” as a result of decreased traffic and activity – and that’s true and this site would de facto disappear as it is now.
To that you said “well that explains it..the censure of lucid discussion of adults nearly twice his age was more a revenue motivation than an ideological one.” Age attacking aside, posting rules were not motivated by revenue and not by ideological reasons as well (I participated in NO discussions of this kind here). It was simply my decision to keep this site as much woodworking related as possible.
“I have no idea why the post was removed because you failed to reveal that when asked. I have only pointed out that there are many other posts that are “off topic” and still remain.” Well I explained the reasons to both authors and they understand it. And almost all “off-topic” discussions are allowed in Coffee Lounge – it’s just politics and religion that caused the trouble so they are excluded in the posting rules.
Hope you understand.
If you still want to keep debating about these two topics there are so many choices on Internet. If you want to talk woodworking with other avid woodworkers then keep enjoying LumberJocks.
For the record, I never meant to imply that Martin’s decisions were based solely on maximizing profit for himself.
What I was trying to illustrate is that a great site like this can only exist free for us members if it can support itself financially. And if things happen that make site traffic and ad revenue go down, that will not be the case.
Choices, choices! I guess you all want to just keep it going.
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
haha you two remind me of those little yapper dogs that bite your ankles when you are walking away.
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
We are in Martins house so to speak so when he has house rules you follow them. It goes both ways when we have spammers every one is PM ing Martin to take care of it. Who would be hear if every other post was an ad religious or political post, I’d be looking for another wood working venue. Like others have stated these type of discussions always seem to get heated and nasty any way . that’s not The way we what our wonderful woodworking neighborhood is it? Thanks Martin for staying the course.
wow 34.23 posts per day.. a1Jim do you have a keyboard on your tablesaw? :) <——smile
I just had a funny image of you working in your shop with a pair of safety glasses/virtual reality headset. hehehe
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
re “We are in Martins house so to speak so when he has house rules you follow them.” – these rules were formed naturally down the road.. not suddenly forced by Martin ;) This is our house…
I click on ads every day on Lumberjocks to push more of that ad revenue to support the site. Only 1 or 2 though… don’t wanna get his ad account banned LOL
Hey Jim…it was meant to have some sarcasm or tongue in cheek attributed to my comments.
I did read Martin’s blog (way before I joined the site) and mostly agree with it.
I tell my kids all the time…my house, my money, my rules.
I do think that the title of the COFFEE LOUNGE is a bit misleading…..”Chat with your Forum Friends about their projects, their life, their philosophies, and get to know each other better”
Politics and religion, along with family and health are directly related topics to my life and philosophy.
Others may not agree with that viewpoint and that is what makes us unique.
Each to their own and RESPECTFUL disagreement with me is always accepted. Personal attacks are not acceptable and offenders should be banned, IMHO.
If all I ever know about you is how you make your dados, then I really never get to know you let alone ””get to know each other better.”
If we don’t have civil and respectful discussions about our world, then most likely we will never fully understand each other.
If the LUMBERJOCKS/COFFEE LOUNGE is not meant for political discussion, then I will abide with the rules as requested.
-- If everyone is thinking alike, then no one is thinking.
RockyTopScott, very well said. Ideally, it’s not the topics that should be off-limits, but rather the childish behavior that happens frequently when those things are discussed.
Hey Rocky Your point is well taken and I respect you right to express yourself . As for the name of a forum no matter what it would be called someone might have issues with it for what ever reasons . If you develop a web site would you title a forum coffee lounge minus political and religious statements. Or would you post rules and hope the people who sign up might read them. It’s anyone’s guess. I have no issues with you or what you think about how this should or shouldn’t be. Like you said we (all of us) don’t know each other that well. But for myself I enjoy the family atmosphere and good people hear plus the projects and woodworking information.tips,and a little kidding around. Now lets talk religion, LOL And for you Dan how did you know. Now you’ve given away my posting secrets.:-))
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
I dont post projects….but I did make two picture frames, two mirror frames and 8 shelves today. I also finished up 4 end tables with slate tile tops.
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
Even if there we not any rules this site has so much volume now that non woodworking stuff would just make it hard to find the stuff we come here for. There are tones of internet sites out there and I don’t think that anyone here would think your cheating on LJ if someone decided to go somewhere else to talk about other things which interest them.
Dan; sneak a camera to work. Would love to see some of your work.
-- If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail!
Oh I talk on plenty of other sites. I go to the Undernet on an IRC client and discuss politics. I have to admit the cerebral capacity and intellect is probably more suitable there for serious discussions. :) (JUST KIDDING JOCKERS!)
I always have a camera and plenty of photos and more than capable of distributing bytes over the internet. For some reason since I complained about having to host pictures on another site to post them here…photo bucket doesnt work. I made the mistake of erasing a photo on photobucket and now NONE of the images will post here…it broke a link or some nonsense. I refuse to start all over or build a new album just so I can post pictures here. Maybe I will try one more time. I guess this way will work. This is the natural slate tile tops on some end tables prior to the finished grout.
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
I don’t want to add too much chatter to an already hashed topic. Just want to say I enjoy the site, I visit most days, I don’t feel like there is too much censorship OR too much off topic ramblings. Seems like things are in reasonable balance for a woodworking site. Lots of other political / rant sites out there for those looking for more of a focus on those topics.
Thanks Martin, seems like to me you are doing a bang up job.
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
Ok in lieu of the interest..or lack of interest in the original subject matter I have decided to self moderate and change the topic. The new topic of this thread is MODERATION and the various reasons and attitudes one might choose to bury their heads in the sand and allow others to bear the weight of unpleasant tasks like, for instance, oversite of the system of government to which we find ourselves subjected.
I find it interesting that a certain portion of our participants here characterize any reference to discussions of government or religion (both the same topic if you ask me) as a RANT. I have often considered my self as more pragmatic and moderate in my views of life in general, prefering nearly as often to adopt solutions to a given problem based on an effort to benifit ratio.
Likewise in my occupational endevors as a tradesman of varying genre, it took a while for me to accept others don’t place the same value on things that I do. This doesn’t mean I am wrong or they are wrong. It only means that, for whatever reason, we see things differently. While my views may change from minute to minute, or not, the only hope for any sanity I can muster is to try and live by the values that seem most palatable to me at the time…moderating…weighing…and asking…is my moderation just complacency?
Is this just ranting?
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
11 thanks shopguryl 648 views and 51 replies in less than 24 hours…not bad huh?
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
Seems like to me rather than complacency, more a case of a time and place for all things. This might not be the time or the place.
I believe there are times and places for political or religious activism, times for ranting, and even eventually a time and place for a call to arms. That such times and places do exist does not mean that ALL times and ALL places are appropriate for all rants / topics / calls to arms.
When I sit down for a cup of coffee, or stand in the shower, or hold my lady in my arms, these might NOT be the times for wild eyed ranting. That I do not choose to be immersed in the rant of the day at all times and in all situations does not imply to me that I am an apathetic complacent ostrich. That I come to LJ and enjoy a focus on woodworking does not lead to me not being active on other topics in other ways in other situations. Different times, different places.
Fortunately the world wide web is diverse enough that all topics at all levels from all points of view are embraced and enjoyed somewhere, and fortunately not everywhere.
So you agree then that characterizing any political discussion automatically as a “rant” is in fact a mischaracterization? I was pointing out that this was apparently the attitude….but mostly by those that are probably less likely to participate in such discussions anyway..anywhere.
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
Well it boils down to this for me. Join and newpaper page and rant all you want in their comments section. USA Today is a good and easy one. As for me, I come here for Wood news and an occasional chuckle or two from the coffee lounge forum. Let’s just choose to keep this site for us. The woodmysters.
“I find it interesting that a certain portion of our participants here characterize any reference to discussions of government or religion (both the same topic if you ask me) as a RANT”
This is not a judgement of anyone here, but the problem these days is that the climate of political discussion has become so superheated that even with the best of intentions, forum-based discussions thereof often degrade into ugly flame wars.
Moreover, I think that the only definition that matters here (and the only one I’m interested in sharing in this context) is “woodworker” , not “liberal” or “conservative” or any other such label. Sites such as LJ are a blessed respite from the noise and I applaud Martin for working to keep it that way.
Lest anyone get the wrong impression, I am deeply concerned about politics and cherish my rights to participate (which I do often). Just not here…
-- Life is too short to suffer bad food and lousy speakers
OK! We will promise to only discuss what we want to from now on! I love democracy! o_O
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
I think your making this up to make problems,if your not please explain,I am to a point I hate to open the LJ site, always someone trying to start someting.
-- <<<<<< I will not stop until I get it right. >>>>>>--
whooooooo weeeeeeeee…my head is spinning…...ok..im gonna change into the dress guys…anyone up for a little county swing…..wait its a red dress…...which is formal…..so put on your coat and ties..and no steppin on my toes…...and we can waltz the nigh away…...karson is first…..and if its my choice…a1jim is next…hes a good bud…...and of coarse martin..the last dance is saved for you…....
Grizzman you are mistaken. Red is NOT formal. Red is for parties. It would seem to me that a little county swing is the perfect event for a red dress. Heels, however, are optional.
-- When you give someone a chance it may well be their last.
come on gm man…....lets have a dance…...we can swing over to get a cold glass of koolaid…....and some cookies….....then ill show you my shop…give ya some heart pine…..:)
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
”So you agree then that characterizing any political discussion automatically as a “rant” is in fact a mischaracterization?” – hmm, depends on what you are saying by any. I believe that characterizing all political discussions as rants would be a mischaracterization. I also believe that many political discussions are, or eventually become, rants. Note that I am not placing a value judgment on a rant, just the execution and appropriateness of the rant in any particular situation.
A quote by Kennedy that might or might not be applicable to my position:
“What is objectionable, what is dangerous about extremists is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents.”
—Robert F. Kennedy
That someone chooses to rant, or not rant, does not bother me at all, it is the appropriateness (time and place) of the execution of the rant that might bother me.
”I was pointing out that this was apparently the attitude….but mostly by those that are probably less likely to participate in such discussions anyway.” – I have insufficient direct experience to form a reasonable opinion about this
I couldn’t say if “most” of the members of LJ likes or dislikes politics. Some of us quite enjoy political dancing, we just try to keep it in an appropriate context.
If you want to know what members choose to read and comment..look at the stats. Now what they SAY they want to read and comment is another issue.
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
So you think discussions about anything but wood is a trainwreck? I have to admit I am pretty dissappointed in the level of reason this one has illicited.
Interesting you don’t approve..but still read and comment.
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
Who ever said “discussions about anything but wood is a trainwreck”? Only politics, religious and advertising are not allowed. Why are you still trying to misinterpret this?
read the thread martin I stated If you want to know what members choose to read and comment..look at the stats. Now what they SAY they want to read and comment is another issue.
To which Llarian replied mics: Trainwrecks always draw huge crowds, that doesn’t mean that they SHOULD.
you are the only one trying to “interpret” anything
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
Martin where is this LJ site going is it going to get better or worst. Couple years ago it was all different it was 99% woodworking. Maybe we should have a different place for special discussion. Don’t hit me on the fingers for saying this.
-- <<<<<< I will not stop until I get it right. >>>>>>--
Martin, This is the best woodworking site on the web! Don’t let anyone else try to take you down! For those that need to discuss politics, religion, or advertising, let them take their dialog elsewhere!
This is a woodworking site only! Please keep it that way!
It’s been (the thread) enlightening but I’m afraid the discussion is just getting inane. I can appreciate the fact that it’s your website and your rules and your choice as to what is or isn’t allowed to be posted…I’ll even agree to allow you to insist that it’s not just your web site but everyones website and that everyone but I would prefer that the topic of government and religion were avoided. Personally would that govt and religion were avoided completely…but I doubt not talking about it is possible. We can try!
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
i will support martin and do support martin in what he has created here for us..a site where wood working is the point..its pretty plain and simple..follow the rules that have been set…its a matter of your choice…if you choose to make trouble and talk on subjects that have been agreed to not talk about , then you have unfairly, to all others here taken on a subject prohibited..we all love wood working and thats why we come here..and this web site has truly been a blessing for me..i thank martin for this site and i thank all of you for bringing your talent and kindness here, as ive made numerous friends, that otherwise i would not have met…
I had a bad joint once, way back when. littlecope, that clip from Monty Python was one of my favorites. What a great site this is, and we have a great guy as a referee and fixer. Personally I find the rants, political or not to be entertaining. These are difficult times we live in and it is easy to slip into rants that do not primarily relate to woodworking, although healthcare will impact many wood shops and woodworking individuals. To get to know your fellow LJ’s who frequent this site is like being in one big family, some funny, some serious all the time, some very opinionated, some cutting board freaks, some black sheep, some crazy (like me) and some you wished belonged to another family. These LJ’s are ALL Members and display life and folks how it is, which even after all the aggro we can ALL come together when it comes to woodworking. An eyeball to eyeball confrontation with a blind person is a waste of time – as one of my mentors once said. We are all human beings and our differences make us unique. I am really guilty of poking fun somewhere in my posts as that is my nature, but I don’t do it to offend, I do it out of great respect to the “victim” who I hope will get a chuckle out of it. If LJ’s (In my oppinion) was lax in any area I would say we need to have more fun at what we do and share.
BY THE WAY…I posted links to photos of a project I was working on in this VERY thread…AND NOT A SINGLE COMMENT WAS MADE ON IT.
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
i lived in eagle river for 15 years…left in 96….from what ive heard the place and others have changes a lot…but i still love alaska…is there any snow yet…..and do you moose hunt…..
well i just looked at your tables , they look real nice .
i also looked at your home page and your projects .
you like to analyze everything , thats cool . and if you want comments on your work , post them where we can see and share them . no need to sneak them in to a comment about something else , then wonder why we didn’t look at them .
I saw them to and to be honest, I didn’t like them that’s why I didn’t comment. I’m not going to put your work down because I’m sure you put a lot of labor into them and did your best.
mics_54 maybe you should cool down a bit,everybody has their own opnion.
Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes…then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
-- <<<<<< I will not stop until I get it right. >>>>>>--
grizz we have about an inch of snow down here on the kenai. I haven’t hunted moose in a few years. Too much work!
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
We have moose hunt here in New Brunswick too it is the last week of September worst time of the year it’s too hot we only get the cold weather at the end of December.
-- <<<<<< I will not stop until I get it right. >>>>>>--
i sure do miss a good moose steak and roast…i miss alaska all the time…but things are what they are…..i cant complain…ive been blessed with a wonderful home and a great shop….well i hope you get more snow…dont want the freezing temps to come in the get down to the water pipes….besides…its alaska…there needs to be snow…..
I spent 14 years in Alaska and 13 of those years on Kodiak. I love Alaska and would love to go back but now wouldn’t be the time to make a career change.
-- Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Mike D.
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
ah yea…a nice bull…...use to see them almost every day out on the palmer flats…..thanks for the nice pic…yea there a lot of work..but..they sure do fill up the freezer fast…..along with the salmon and halibut…..oh those where the days…....we use to camp in seward every summer….kept my boat there..there is a nice camp at the end of the road, the one that goes by the falls and where the sea life center is…yep…i miss it…...your lucky to be there…..but will have to admit…winter were starting to get me a bit….i sure was hankerin to smell the dirt again and go fishing…...
That was about two weeks ago in the back yard. He was following a cow/calf pair around. The seasons for hunting moose and the legal bull requirements are such that it’s alot of work to find one. I just rarely have the necessary time to spend on it. I do get alot of salmon and halibut though!
I suppose we should let this thread die and get out of the site feedback forum.
-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!
Yeah, tut, tut you guys certainly drifted off the beaten track and for a moment I thought I’d accidentally landed on a National Geographic site!! You guys need to stay on the subject matter, you’ll be OK just as long as you include something about woodworking in the text for it to be kosher. e.g. I like my fish cooked with mesquite and try not to get ash on it. Some people like it bitplaner which is quite poplar with some maple syrup and a cherry halved by crosscuting on a cutting board.
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