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Forum topic by a1Jim posted 11-01-2009 07:53 PM 3447 views 1 time favorited 137 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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a1Jim

112104 posts in 2235 days


11-01-2009 07:53 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question joining

I’m always kind of amazed and befuddled at folks that ask for plans for seemingly simple projects like boxes or
picture frames requested from people who have some very nice somewhat advanced projects listed . At first thinking about this I thought maybe it’s because I have a lot more experience than others, but then I think of my first woodworking project(a corner entertainment center) and remember I just saw a photo and came up with the height,width and depth of it and it wasn’t even a entertainment center photo. It almost seems strange to me to have plans other than ones I’ve developed. This is not intended as a brag or look what I do scenario. I just wondered if others have done the same since there beginnings in wood working. I wanted to know if the people who ask for fairly simple plans don’t like making plans or just want to make sure there doing things the right way or maybe they feel there just being lazy. I mean no offence to anyone asking this question.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture


137 replies so far

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WayneC

12290 posts in 2755 days


#1 posted 11-01-2009 07:59 PM

Perhaps it is the availablity of existing information that keeps some people from experimenting. A side effect of the internet?

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

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cstrang

1769 posts in 1826 days


#2 posted 11-01-2009 08:01 PM

I know what you mean, I rarely have a plan for something I build for myself, family or friends, customers on the other hand I usually draw up a plan on paper or Google SketchUp so they can see it before I actually go ahead and build it. Most of the things I make are combinations of many other projects out there plus a lot of my own input, all the plans I need are in my head and rarely make it onto paper, I think it all comes down to is that this is a skill and some just don’t have it, noting wrong with hiving or not having it, it’s just a matter of our own personal preference of how we make something in the shop. Thanks for the post Jim, I was wondering about this myself.

-- A hammer dangling from a wall will bang and sound like work when the wind blows the right way.

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ChunkyC

856 posts in 1912 days


#3 posted 11-01-2009 08:02 PM

I like plans for one thing, to give me an idea and a place to start. I’ve never built something exactly to someone else plans. For large complex projects, plans are nice to get you over the design hump but for simple items likes shelves etc, a picture is all I need. A lot of it comes from my musical background, “a variation on a theme.” Take someones theme (design) and change it slightly to make it your own.

-- Chunk's Workshop pictures: http://spadfest.rcspads.com/thumbnails.php?album=135

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rsladdwoodworks

311 posts in 1827 days


#4 posted 11-01-2009 08:06 PM

I have found people can’t think on there own but if you tell how to do each time they can.

-- Robert Laddusaw and no I am not smarter then a fifth grader ( and no I canot spell so if it is a problem don't read it ))

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BlankMan

1487 posts in 2011 days


#5 posted 11-01-2009 08:09 PM

I’m the same way Jim, I can picture it in 3D in my mind and that’s enough for me to go off of. I’ll sometimes make a sketch for cutting purposes so I don’t have to cut twice but that’s about it. I’ve never built off a plan, I tend to incorporate things that I’ve seen in different items into one.

And many a time the design has changed as it’s coming together (while I’m milling the wood or dry fitting) because I’ll realize ‘this will look better’.

I’ve got a few woodworking friends that are dead in the water without plans so I can understand it. They can’t do their own plans either, they have to have the plans ready made for them.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

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CharlieM1958

15698 posts in 2876 days


#6 posted 11-01-2009 08:28 PM

I’ve never built anything from a plan, and can’t really imagine doing so. But I guess different people’s brains work different ways. I was always good with numbers, but totally stuck when it came to advanced math, because I have to be able to picture the logic in my head, the same way I have to picture a woodworking project in my head.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

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stefang

13059 posts in 1992 days


#7 posted 11-01-2009 08:34 PM

The only plan I really need is how to get away to the shop! Seriously, I don’t normally use plans except for ones I occasionally find in a woodworking magazine that I want to duplicate (mostly jigs). I agree with you that once you have an idea of what you want and what size, the rest is just preparing stock and joinery. I spent a lot of time doing plans once on Sketchup to make some tables. I cut and joined everything to plan and it worked great, but I could have just as well done without the plan. Maybe some folks just assume they need a plan from habit or the way they were taught.

Many new to woodworking also might not have developed the self confidence the older hands have acquired with experience. I have to confess that sometimes I just start out with a vague idea of what I am going to make and then keep modifying it as I get new ideas. This of course sometimes has an effect on the workmanship, but then I just call it a prototype (even if I don’t ever make another one)

Woodworking encompasses a broad area of craftsmanship and with it all sorts of folks. I guess in the end it doesn’t really matter how we do it as long as we enjoy ourselves and/or make a living at it.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

View Julian's profile

Julian

880 posts in 2183 days


#8 posted 11-01-2009 08:35 PM

I also don’t use others plans. I like to look around and make my own, whether the idea comes from measuring up a piece in person and then figuring the rest out, or just looking at pics online then coming up with a plan. Woodworking is full of problem solving and the design is just the start of it.

-- Julian, Park Forest, IL

View Roger Clark aka Rex's profile

Roger Clark aka Rex

6940 posts in 2093 days


#9 posted 11-01-2009 08:40 PM

Jim, Blankman is on the right track. It is a talent of being able to understand spacial relationships which not all people can understand. This is why some people cannot do drafting or art painting well. The talent is usually a natural one but can be learned with a degree difficulty, it is a talent you are tested for to enter a drafting and design program, you must be able to “see” the object from all angles in your head.
I think it is a good thing that those who don’t have this talent ask for a ready made picture with dimensions that they feel more confident using.
If you think of product drawing as being the work of another valid occupation and made by a craftsman in another valid occupation you find that a person usually excells at one skill much more than the other.
From my own experiences, teaching a student who does not have this talent in drafting and design is very, very difficult. The student has a hard time and usually will switch programs to something where this talent is not required.

-- Roger-R, Republic of Texas. "Always look on the Bright Side of Life" - An eyeball to eyeball confrontation with a blind person is as complete waste of Time.

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Andrew

709 posts in 1857 days


#10 posted 11-01-2009 08:46 PM

I have Graph Paper, I draw it out to scale, make notes, then start buying materials. I also try to “plan in” a new skill, and a new tool I don’t have already. I remember from my entertainment system and other project you folks will see soon enough, that I always make things more functional and complicated than they need to be. A side effect of the internet. Good Question.

-- Even a broken clock is right twice a day, unless, it moves at half speed like ....-As the Saw Turns

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grizzman

7015 posts in 1961 days


#11 posted 11-01-2009 08:51 PM

hey jim…good question to spur the thinking…...as for me..ive never used a plan i dont think…i get the idea and then formulate the dimensions…..and draw it out…i havent used sketchup yet…although i do have it downloaded….maybe the only thing i had to get the plan for was this red dress…i mean i didnt know the right length to show the right muscle or where my slip line would be…..lol…lol…...i could not resist that one…

-- GRIZZMAN ...[''''']

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Kevin_S

30 posts in 1847 days


#12 posted 11-01-2009 08:54 PM

I work more often without plans than I do with. It depends partly on the complexity of the project, but mostly I like to express my own creativity in a project. So I may customize an existing design or completely wing it.

I think people have different parts of the process they enjoy. I enjoy the designing AND building. Some folks may just want to build. For them, working from plans lets them focus on what they like.

View poopiekat's profile

poopiekat

3634 posts in 2392 days


#13 posted 11-01-2009 09:03 PM

I wonder if the technician at the transmission place rolled his eyes at me for not repairing the differential on my B-2500 myself. Or, if an irrigation specialist-friend was annoyed when I had to ask him a few esoteric questions about my planned lawn-sprinkler project. Do people snicker behind my back when I use my Garmin Nuvi to get to a tool warehouse in a part of town I’ve never been to before, even though I could probably find my way there without it? Do chefs look at me with disdain for adhering precisely to cookbook recipe instructions? I can’t possibly prepare an elaborate dish or dessert without reference. I know the extent of my cooking expertise, and seek written instructions whenever stepping into uncharted waters. That is the well-reasoned approach to achieving good results in a discipline you are not that familiar with.
Think of a project that is beyond the realm of your ‘gift’, and imagine an expert looking askance at YOU, like the little punk behind the counter at the industrial-supply place who got sarcastic with me for not being able to answer his questions fast enough. How should I know the difference between a sealed bearing and a shielded bearing? I just wanted to fix my old router!
Lots of diverse talents come natural to us, but for anyone who needs guidance in woodworking, we should not criticize them for having less ability than ourselves. They might be the person you call upon when your CNC panel saw needs a new microprocessor…. then the shoe would be on the other foot!

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

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GMman

3902 posts in 2355 days


#14 posted 11-01-2009 09:15 PM

I’ve never built anything with a plan; I can always see it in my head before I start.
Once I tried it and it came out different than the plan, could not fallow it to the end.

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GMman

3902 posts in 2355 days


#15 posted 11-01-2009 09:24 PM

By the way”poopiekat” we don’t see any of your projects?

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