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Forum topic by cstrang posted 10-30-2009 09:50 PM 7084 views 0 times favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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cstrang

1829 posts in 2629 days


10-30-2009 09:50 PM

Topic tags/keywords: grizzly owner canada csa

I learned today that Grizzly tools could be obtained in Canada through Busy Bee, while very happy and prepared to purchase an 8” jointer I phoned Busy Bee but unfortunately I was told that they had been handed a stop order. They told me that Grizzly’s equipment isn’t CSA approved thus it cannot be shipped commercially across the border; this was never a problem before as it was sold within the USA and never shipped to Canada. How does this pertain to current Grizzly owners in Canada? If something in the machine malfunctioned and was to catch fire and god forbid burn down your shop or your house I doubt a Canadian insurance company would cover it as the product that started the fire was not CSA approved. A similar issue arose a few years back when non CSA approved power bars were being sold in dollar stores and these power bars would catch fire, burn down people’s homes and insurance would say there isn’t anything we can do for you, you shouldn’t have had that non-CSA approved electrical device in your home. Just a friendly heads up, I know that Grizzly makes good tools and I am sure that the odds of one burning your house down are slim but they are there never the less, wouldn’t want to see anyone lose their house because of a technical mishap like this one.

-- A hammer dangling from a wall will bang and sound like work when the wind blows the right way.


20 replies so far

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RedShirt013

219 posts in 3122 days


#1 posted 10-30-2009 11:22 PM

I am amazed and baffled at how they can find out whether a power bar had that CSA/UL stamped or molded on it after it had been through a fire.

-- Ed

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cstrang

1829 posts in 2629 days


#2 posted 10-31-2009 01:09 AM

Not sure how they figured this out myself but there were some pretty unlucky people who bought this product trying to save a buck at the till.

-- A hammer dangling from a wall will bang and sound like work when the wind blows the right way.

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Bob #2

3809 posts in 3482 days


#3 posted 10-31-2009 01:14 AM

Part of the” Free Trade Deal” was to bring in reciprocity between U/L standards in the U.S. and CSA here in Canada as they are for all intents identicle in requirements.
You may want to check this out before you go any furlther with this thread.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

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cstrang

1829 posts in 2629 days


#4 posted 10-31-2009 01:42 AM

I am just going on the information given to me by Busy Bee, while UL and CSA are similar they do have their differences, maybe not in the minimum requirements but by what companies or organizations they are recognized by. Just figured I would post this topic for Canadian Grizzly owners to check with their insurance companies to find out if it has any real effect on their coverage, insurance companies can be very picky on who and what they cover, this could be a loop hole for them to jump through in the event of an incident occurring.

-- A hammer dangling from a wall will bang and sound like work when the wind blows the right way.

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Bob #2

3809 posts in 3482 days


#5 posted 10-31-2009 01:46 AM

Hence, my comment.

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

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SKFrog16

661 posts in 2661 days


#6 posted 10-31-2009 01:52 AM

Most companies will put UL approved in their manuals. Grizzly however, not so much. I’m just sayin. Also, the fact that something has a UL tag on it doesn’t necessarily mean the entire unit is UL tested.
There are cases where it was just the cord that was UL approved, so the company just left the tag on the cord after installing into equipment. What would you read into it if you saw the tag.

-- Methods are many,Principles are few.Methods change often,Principles never do.

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Bob #2

3809 posts in 3482 days


#7 posted 10-31-2009 02:32 PM

Here’s is some background infor re U?L CSA agreements:

CSA, UL Agreement Streamlines Certification Process for Electrical Manufacturers
Mar 3, 2004 12:00 PM
By Ashok Bindra, Editorial Director, PETech

Several months of negotiations between two major North American safety certification organizations, the CSA International (CSA) and Underwriters Laboratories Inc. (UL), has resulted in an agreement that streamlines the certification process for electrical manufacturers. As a result, the two have adopted an expanded memorandum of understanding (MoU) and completed the first phase of a mutual acceptance program for electrical components—the first milestone of an agreement the two organizations inked late last year.

While this agreement is designed to assist manufacturers in getting their products to Canadian and U.S. markets more quickly, without redundant testing, it has much greater appeal. Since UL works closely with European agencies such as VDE, as well as with certification organizations in Asia, it hopes to attract similar groups from overseas to offer a global one-stop shop in the future. In the meantime, the two players must cooperate closely to make this program operable in North America.

“The expanded MoU and the mutual acceptance program are part of UL’s overall drive to help manufacturers get safer products to market faster,” said Gus Schaefer, UL’s senior vice president and COO for the United States and Canada. “We are committed to ensuring that these objectives are met. The fundamental goal is to meet the needs of our clients without compromising the integrity of our marks,” added Schaefer. “We will follow up inspections to maintain the integrity of UL mark.”

With the completion of the first phase of the component agreement, CSA and UL now accept several component categories for use in low-voltage distribution and industrial control equipment. Under the agreement, as many as 52 additional component categories and 11 additional end-product categories are being considered.

In announcing the successful completion of Phase 1 implementation activities, Grant Carter, CSA Group VP of marketing and communications, said “We are pleased with the continued support of our industry colleagues and impressed by UL’s positive cooperation to meet our joint commitment to implementing Phase 1 on time. With that cooperation, we are moving forward with urgency to implement the remaining phases of these accords so that many electrical manufacturers can benefit from a more efficient, yet highly rigorous, product testing and certification process without undue delay.”

According to NEMA President Malcolm O’Hagan, “The mutual component acceptance program is increasing the competitiveness of our electrical manufacturers by reducing costs and clearing the path to market. The expansion of the agreement by UL and CSA is commendable. We encourage the two organizations to continue with this cooperative effort.”

Phase 1 end products include transfer switches, combination motor controllers, industrial control panels, motor control centers, panel boards, power conversion equipment, power outlets and power outlet fittings, switchboards, dead front, and switchgear assemblies. Phase 1 categories of components include fuse holders, cartridge type and plug; fuse accessories; ground-fault sensing and relaying equipment; industrial control panels; combination motor controllers; miscellaneous lamp holders; meter socket bases and accessories; panel board and switchboard accessories; supplementary protectors; relay sockets and assemblies; switches, molded case; terminal blocks; auxiliary devices; motor controllers, float-and pressure; motor controllers, magnetic; motor controllers, manual; motor controllers, miscellaneous; industrial control, miscellaneous apparatus; programmable controllers; protective relays; switches; and industrial control.

For more information, visit www.csa-international.org/components or www.ul.com.

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

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a1Jim

115202 posts in 3038 days


#8 posted 11-01-2009 01:31 AM

Mind boggling

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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cstrang

1829 posts in 2629 days


#9 posted 11-01-2009 01:32 AM

I second that Jim, I got a email on my blackberry at work today and I had the deer in the headlights look on my face for about half an hour after reading this one lol.

-- A hammer dangling from a wall will bang and sound like work when the wind blows the right way.

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Dale

11 posts in 2610 days


#10 posted 11-01-2009 02:06 AM

The cost to Grizzly to have all of their products UL/CSA certified would be tremendous. I do think that with equipment such as a jointer they could install a CSA (or cUL) certified electric motor and not have to get the entire jointer certified. Then hopefully they could use that motor on multple machines.

Perhaps Grizzly could sell the jointer without a motor?

-- -Dale

View radfrac's profile

radfrac

12 posts in 2616 days


#11 posted 11-01-2009 02:32 AM

I make the occasional UL/CSA labeled equipment at my real job. I won’t go so far as to call the labeling a scam, but it’s close. Grizzly would almost certainly have to have each model labeled to the tune of $60k, though they may get a better deal than I can. If they changed a motor or wiring or other component, then they have to get it re-labeled. That would very quickly add up for them.

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

17654 posts in 3136 days


#12 posted 11-01-2009 02:40 AM

In the US only permanet wiring is required to be UL listed. Most cord connected equipment is exempted.

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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radfrac

12 posts in 2616 days


#13 posted 11-01-2009 03:21 PM

There is no national requirement in the US for UL. It comes down to local or state agencies to adopt that standard. Hence Washington state freaks out if they don’t have a stamp and 47 other states couldn’t care less. Also, you can UL to label pretty much anything, corded or not. As long as the check clears.

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TopamaxSurvivor

17654 posts in 3136 days


#14 posted 11-01-2009 10:14 PM

There is definitely a lot of politics and $$$$$$ involved in UL listing :-))

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View jerryz's profile

jerryz

164 posts in 2739 days


#15 posted 11-01-2009 10:43 PM

Well, that is why so many companies move out to greener and friendlier pastures.
You would think that Grizzly does not manufacture the motor or the cord or even the switch and if you include UL certified parts then by extension your equipment would be certified under the umbrella of the parts. But alas it is not that simple is it?
Wait we are going to add carbon emissions taxes to the mix! God Almighty help us all….

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