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Craftsman table saw

6K views 171 replies 16 participants last post by  CharlesA 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
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Hello everyone. I am really new to woodworking. In fact this is my first post as a member here. I am looking for my first table saw. I do not intend at this time to do any fine work with it. I am looking for something all purpose. This will be my all purpose saw since I don't have a mitre, band, or scroll saw. We just moved into our first home, and I'm beginning to finally get settled in doing homeowner type things, but I want the ability to eventually make a piece of furniture or shelving if I want in the future. I found a listing on Cragislist for an 8" Craftsman table saw manufactured by King-Seeley. Model Number 103.23833. The lister says it's from the 50's. I don't know the DOM as I haven't contacted Craftsman about it, but I believe it based on the styling. This thing has the additional leafs (is that the correct term?) so the table is wider than just the top that comes attached to the unit. It also has a 4" jointer attached. Both units are run from a single motor by moving the belt. The seller wants $285. I don't know anything about this type of equipment so I wanted your guys' opinion before biting on this. I have attached some of the photos he posted in the listing.
 

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#2 ·
That looks like early 50's to me. I inherited my father's old Craftsman like that one and built many things with it. The fence is a weak link on that saw, and it's far below the performance level of newer 10" contractor saws. For another $100 you'll gain vastly better performance and enjoyment.
 
#6 · (Edited by Moderator)
I did find this one.
Run away screaming…

Cheers,
Brad

Edit: Now that you've updated the links, that Unisaw is a great deal at $150, but you will have to invest some time and additional money to get it working. It would, however, probably be the last saw you would buy for a very, very long time once it's all fixed up.

http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/tls/5153098771.html
 
#8 · (Edited by Moderator)
I did find these four.

http://york.craigslist.org/tls/5128835749.html

http://york.craigslist.org/tls/5119387967.html

http://york.craigslist.org/tls/5071814192.html

http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/tls/5153098771.html

Anyone have thoughts? I have no idea what brand to look for. I do keep finding Delta, Craftsman and Rockwell.

- Jeffjr02
You're choices are all over the map from run away, to not bad ….not unusual for a newbie, so some reading is in order. The ABCs of Table Saws

Small plastic saws with direct drive universal motors give up a lot to the larger cast iron saws with belt drive induction motors. Unless you NEED to move the saw from site to site, get a full size stationary saw. The difference in actual footprint isn't much considering what you gain.
 
#9 · (Edited by Moderator)
I did find these four.

http://york.craigslist.org/tls/5128835749.html

http://york.craigslist.org/tls/5119387967.html

http://york.craigslist.org/tls/5071814192.html

http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/tls/5153098771.html

Anyone have thoughts? I have no idea what brand to look for. I do keep finding Delta, Craftsman and Rockwell.

- Jeffjr02
Definitely not the first two. Those are plastic bodied, universal motor jobsite saws. Not what you want for a woodworking shop.

The Craftsman could be OK, but is overpriced, IMHO. Should be around $150 for one of those.

The Delta could be a great saw, if you want to put in the work and have 220V available. Have to either change the motor or get a converter to deal with the three phase. Plus find out if there is a fence. Once all done up, though, it'd give you all the benefits of a full size cabinet saw.

Also, I looked through the CL listings for your area, and this one jumped out at me, if it's still available.

http://york.craigslist.org/tls/5104692201.html

Crappy pics, but those Hitachi's were good contractor type saws and the surface rust is easy to clean off. Best reasonable offer says to me offer $200 and see what happens.
 
#10 ·
Thanks for that link knotscott. I see now that it's more complicated than just looking for a stationary saw. I assumed all stationary were "contractor" saws. This is a good little article.

And JayT, which Craftsman are you referring to? The originally posted one or the second one I found? The second one is listed for $100. In regards to the Delta (do you mean the big blue Rockwell?)...I coincidentally just put in a 240v outlet for an old Craftsman compressor I found on CL. But I'm not sure if I would be able to hook this up. I assumed that a three phase motor needed true three phase power from a 480v circuit.
 
#11 · (Edited by Moderator)
And JayT, which Craftsman are you referring to? The originally posted one or the second one I found? The second one is listed for $100. In regards to the Delta (do you mean the big blue Rockwell?)...I coincidentally just put in a 240v outlet for an old Craftsman compressor I found on CL. But I m not sure if I would be able to hook this up. I assumed that a three phase motor needed true three phase power from a 480v circuit.

- Jeffjr02
Yes, I was referring to the second one (third link in your list of four links). Looked at the header saying $250 and didn't look below. For $100, it'd make a good saw. You would probably eventually want to upgrade the fence, but would work fine starting out. I'd still take the Hitachi over it, though, as long as everything checked out. I seem to recall something about one of the gears being plastic and may need replaced, but don't recall for sure. Maybe Scott can chime in on that one. The fence on the Hitachi is pretty decent and you wouldn't need to upgrade it.

The blue Rockwell is a Unisaw from when Rockwell and Delta were one company, I just always refer to them as Delta out of habit. There are three ways to convert a three phase motor to run on single phase power. A VFD (variable frequency drive) is probably the most economical for a single piece of equipment. If you are doing a whole shop, then it might make sense to go up to a phase converter, either rotary or static. There are guys on here that know a lot more about those than me, so I'm not even going to try an explanation. Just know that it is possible.
 
#13 · (Edited by Moderator)
That Unisaw is a 1964 model, and is most likely 240v 3 phase. A VFD could be used to get it running, and run you about $150-$200 depending on amperage. Also figure in new bearings (arbor and motor - less than $30 total) and new belts (about $20 for a set of 3). Don't know if it has a fence, but that will add more, as will a miter gauge if you want one (alternatively, you can just build a sled). The rest would be depending on how far you want to take it.. either just a good cleaning, or tearing it down to repaint/restore. It has the dust door, lock knobs (both frequently missing) and the nice cast iron base, which is a plus.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: A static phase converter, IMO, is not worth it.. it really isn't 3-phase as it drops one lead after startup and reduces the HP of the motor by roughly 1/3.
 
#14 · (Edited by Moderator)
#16 ·
Wow. Thanks for all of your help everyone. You definitely went above and beyond. I may check out the Craftsman you linked scott. Is there any advice for cleaning such an item? I've never undertaken rust removal on something that the look/finish actually mattered. I would love that Rockwell for the sheer ability it could possess but in all honesty I don't even know how I would get it into the basement, unless I could take it apart into a couple different pieces. Our basement is rather small for right now. Unfortunately we live in one of those 120 year old city houses, so people barely fit down those basement steps.
 
#17 ·
There are lots of remedies for dealing with rust. You can search here or Google for ideas…might even be worth a separate post. I like to use WD40 and a scotchbrite pad under my random orbital sander. If it's really bad, scrape it with a razor or beater chisel first.

The saw fence, wings, motor, and leg stand are pretty simple to remove so you can get it downstairs. The main unit (27" x 20") will barely weigh 100#. To remove the motor, just loosen the two bolts that hold the motor and motor mount rods in place….once you remove the belt, it should slide right out (you'll have to unplug the motor from the switch, unless it's hardwired…in which case, unbolt the switch from the rail)

 
#20 · (Edited by Moderator)
He is speaking to the 113 craftsman. that is what the picture is off of.

- johnstoneb
Sorry, I didn't read your post more thoroughly…the pic is definitely off an old Craftsman saw. The motor can be removed from just about any other contractor saw too, and even a cabinet saw if you want to lighten the load. The top can be pretty easily removed from a true cabinet saw as well.
 
#21 ·
scott, sorry if I was unclear. My question was your last paragraph mentioning once table, motor etc. were removed then "it" would be around 100#. I was assuming you meant that the contractor Craftsman would be under around 100. I assume that Unisaw is much more right? That Unisaw is the one that I would need to disassemble to get into the basement most likely. But if those things are like 4-500# then that's a no go because I wouldn't want to risk destroying the saw or a person trying to get it down. Our itty bitty basement stairwell, without measuring, is something like a 75 degree slope. And we couldn't even get the 14 cf chest freezer we bought from lowes through with the cart attached.

http://frederick.craigslist.org/tls/5139596991.html

What do you think of this saw? Would this be any better than that $100 Craftsman or would it be comparable, just a different vintage? This guy is cheap at only $69, but the gas money would be 3x as much to go get it. But if it is likely a better saw then I might consider it. Otherwise I might just go check out that $100 Craftsman or that $260 Hitachi.
 
#22 · (Edited by Moderator)
You can remove the fence, extension wings (3 bolts each side), table (4 bolts) and motor (1 bolt, 1 clip) on that Unisaw to move it. I've loaded/unloaded/moved them by myself and usually don't even bother taking off the top (I do remove the fence/extensions though) or removing the motor. With 2 people and/or a hand cart, it would be a breeze.

That C-man for $69 is a pretty good deal and at the lower end of the fairly typical $50-$150 range you see them going for all the time.. Most all of those saws are the same with only minor, some barely noticeable changes between the years/models. Simple and serviceable design, and since they are everywhere, parts, accessories and modifications are readily available. Just don't take too long deciding - the good deals go quick.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: Looks like you waited too long and a couple of those saws listed above (including the $100 C-man?) are already gone. Don't let OWWM rule #5 bite you.
 
#24 · (Edited by Moderator)
I gotta say, being indecisive is my thing. And this decision is killing me. I've narrowed it down (expanded it?) To a $100 Craftsman, a $200 Craftsman, a $150 Delta Contractors, the $260 Hitachi (Would offer $200 like Jay recommended) and that Unisaw. To me the Uni seems very expensive to get up and running, to the point where it may cost the same as a new cabinet or more…Grizzly advertises a $775 brand new one. So to me the Uni seems more of a project saw at this point, I'd probably offer $75 if it doesn't have miter gauge and fence. I need to call him and find out.

http://york.craigslist.org/tls/5071814192.html

http://reading.craigslist.org/tls/5129369217.html

http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/tls/5144118108.html

http://york.craigslist.org/tls/5104692201.html

http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/tls/5153098771.html

Based on my own extremely limited research I think my first pick is be the $150 Delta CS followed by the $100 craftsman (solely based on price). My issue is that I really don't want to spend over $200 for something that I will use sparingly at best. (Of course once you have the tool, new jobs for it seem to materialize)

What would be your first and second picks?

Also, I have no clue what the procedure is when I go to check them out. Is it just a matter of seeing if the height and tilt work and that I can move the fence and turn the unit on?
 
#25 ·
IF anyone is nearby to me…
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Have had this in storage for a few years. No roo for it, anyway
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Dual pulley system, motor has a thermo reset. about 1.5hp. Really two 113s in one package
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Sorry, never did find a need for a different fence

Has a few extras..
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Wood Gas Metal Composite material Bumper


One wing to the left, three to the right. Was asking around $100, or OBO
Have it stored in a friends enclosed barn. Might be a bunch of saw blades there too….
 

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