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Forum topic by TheGreatJon posted 07-31-2015 03:06 AM 1977 views 0 times favorited 45 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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TheGreatJon

296 posts in 701 days


07-31-2015 03:06 AM

Topic tags/keywords: lathe 46-451

i was watching an online auction tonight because there was a scroll saw and a few other items in which I was interested. I also noticed that there was a Rockwell lathe up for auction, so I put it on my watch list and threw out a lowball bid of $115. With 7 minutes left to go, someone finally outbid me… but by that time I had become enamored with the idea of winning this lathe for super cheap. End of story is that I bought it for $200, sight unseen. The problem is that, aside from some time on a metal lathe in college, I know nothing about turning.

From what I can tell, I need a faceplate, a tool rest, and some tools in order to start using this thing. Am I missing anything? Is there anything specific I should look for when getting these things? Or any sources I should check out? Thanks guys!

The following is all I know about my recent purchasing frenzy:
“Rockwell Wood Lathe, 10” Swing x 38” Centers, Series #: 46-451, S/N: 1712842, Variable Speed From 340 Rpm to 3200 Rpm, Currently Set Up for 3 Phase Power Operation, but Included is a New 3/4 HP Dayton Motor to Convert it Over to Single Phase Power Operation”





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45 replies so far

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

4247 posts in 1666 days


#1 posted 07-31-2015 03:18 AM

1977 model with a reeves drive. You can make your own faceplates if you get an appropriate sized tap. Missing tool rest and banjo and you will need some kind of center for the tailstock. Some turning tools will also be needed, which you can make yourself or buy. The Dayton motor may or may not be a direct replacement depending on frame type and shaft size. Might consider getting a VFD instead and just running it on 240v. I’m sure you will get a lot of suggestions on what and where to get stuff.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

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TheGreatJon

296 posts in 701 days


#2 posted 07-31-2015 03:30 AM

what would be the benefit of putting it on a vfd? It already had speed control. Is the reeves drive difficult to use?

-- This is not the signature line you are looking for.

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MrUnix

4247 posts in 1666 days


#3 posted 07-31-2015 03:41 AM

Depends on the motor that’s in the thing and if/how easy it might be to swap out with that Dayton. 3 phase motors are much more dependable (no centrifugal switch or capacitor), and with a VFD, you get some added benefits you won’t get with a single phase motor. You will also most likely need to rewire for the single phase motor if you swap them, as I doubt the existing starter would be compatible. Just an option to keep in mind.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

View Bill7255's profile

Bill7255

354 posts in 1752 days


#4 posted 07-31-2015 12:19 PM

depends on the hp of the 3 phase. 3/4hp will work, but on the small side. One of the benefits of the VDF is you can vary the rpm in addition to the reeves drive. I have a old PM 90 and I went ahead and converted it to a single phase 1 hp. That was because the 3 phase was only 1 hp and I would have lost hp running it. I get by with the 1 hp, but I wish I would have went with 2 hp.

-- Bill R

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TheGreatJon

296 posts in 701 days


#5 posted 07-31-2015 12:52 PM

I also thought that 3/4 hp seemed on the small side. what is the ideal size motor for this size lathe? I think it is actually be a 12” swing rather than the 10” mentioned in the description.

Does anyone know if there is a difference between the 46-450 and the 46-451? I’m finding tons of info on the 450, but almost nothing on the 451. From pictures, they look pretty much identical.

-- This is not the signature line you are looking for.

View johnstoneb's profile

johnstoneb

2150 posts in 1640 days


#6 posted 07-31-2015 12:55 PM

I think you got a very good deal. Heavy cast iron bed good base should be stable. It’s always good to keep your options open. Mounting the new motor and rewiring for single phase will probably be cheeper than the vfd. I wouldn’t worry about the power. I am running my lathe with a 1/3 HP motor and works fine. Sometimes have to back off the cut a little but that keeps me from taking off too much too fast which is very easy to do. This is a very good lathe to get started with.

-- Bruce, Boise, ID

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

1887 posts in 1602 days


#7 posted 07-31-2015 01:11 PM

I would not worry about the motor situation right now. Finding a tool rest base (banjo) and tool rest probably more important. After market accessories like faceplates and live centers easy to find. Do not see a live center in the tailstock.

If not mistaken that lathe has a 12” swing verus 10” but not sure about gap.

http://forums.finewoodworking.com/fine-woodworking-knots/turning-and-carving/delta-46-541-lathe-question

Getting a tool rest base not easy but you need that & tool rest before can use the lathe. Tools rest & live center no problem.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delta-Milwaukee-Rockwell-12-Lathe-Tool-Holder-for-1-Posts-Banjo-CBL-425-1160-/291525565663?hash=item43e0471cdf

Good luck with it.

-- Bill

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TheGreatJon

296 posts in 701 days


#8 posted 07-31-2015 01:22 PM

Thanks for the links Bill! The fine woodworking link answered several of my questions.

$100+ for the banjo hurts. I’ll have to look around for that one.

-- This is not the signature line you are looking for.

View BobHall's profile

BobHall

10 posts in 752 days


#9 posted 07-31-2015 01:50 PM

Great machine and good price. I’d probably go with the new single phase motor unless you luck into a good deal on a VFD and sell which ever one is left. Here’s a link to the Vintage machine site with the manual for your lathe.

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=3667

You can join WWW.OWWM.ORG (free) for access to their selling list. These parts a common, but not cheap! On that site also you’ll find a wealth of information and some really nice “old arn” guys who can explain ANYTHING.

http://OWWM.ORG

-- Bob "jack of all trades, master of none"

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

4997 posts in 3130 days


#10 posted 07-31-2015 02:20 PM

What is in the box on the pallet under the lathe? Might be some missing parts?

You may already know this, but if you keep the Reeves drive, never move the lever without the motor running. We had one of these in our tech school shop, and one of the students damaged the Reeves system by cranking on the lever while the motor was off.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

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TheGreatJon

296 posts in 701 days


#11 posted 07-31-2015 02:30 PM

In the box is just the 3/4 HP motor that is mentioned in the lot description. I’m holding onto a glimmer of hope that there are a few parts back in that half cabinet behind the pegboard.

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View Julian's profile

Julian

1039 posts in 2158 days


#12 posted 07-31-2015 02:34 PM

$200 is a very good deal. As others mentioned; OWWM.ORG is a good source for finding old parts. Another possibility for a banjo is Harbor Freight Tools. You can buy lathe parts from HF via the internet. With some cleaning and maybe repainting it will be like new.

-- Julian

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

4997 posts in 3130 days


#13 posted 07-31-2015 03:26 PM

Just a WAG, but I wonder if this started out as restoration job that somebody lost interest in?

The tailstock is either been repainted or is off a different lathe (Delta was grey).

It is also possible the included Dayton motor was purchased because 3-phase power wasn’t available to the previous owner. Most residential areas don’t have 3-phase power available, so installing a single phase motor would make some sense if this lathe was to be used in a home workshop.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

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TheGreatJon

296 posts in 701 days


#14 posted 07-31-2015 03:28 PM

Julian, I see that HF sells the lathe tools and live centers (will any live center fit in that tail stock?) but I don’t see anything like a tool rest or banjo. Do I need to look for a section dedicated to parts for their machines?

-- This is not the signature line you are looking for.

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TheGreatJon

296 posts in 701 days


#15 posted 07-31-2015 03:42 PM

Gerry, I bet you’re right. Pretty sad attempt at a restoration though. The gunk isn’t even cleaned off.

I’ll be sure to post on owwm. I have an account therethere because most of my equipment qualifies as arn. I just didn’t remember seeing much discussion of lathes over there, so I came here first.

-- This is not the signature line you are looking for.

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