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Fuming White Oak - Ammonia suppliers

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Forum topic by schu777 posted 07-28-2015 03:15 PM 935 views 0 times favorited 13 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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schu777

15 posts in 1769 days


07-28-2015 03:15 PM

Topic tags/keywords: white oak fume fuming ammonia

I’ve been really coming up with nothing for a supplier of a high concentrate Ammonia here in Omaha – perhaps I’m not searching right on Google. Either way, I’d like to go the route of the high concentrate instead of the household version, as I’d like to get this done in a day instead of having to monitor it all day long. So with that, what online sources can I get some. I’m looking to fume a Queen size bed to give a “size” of what I need to do and perhaps someone has a recommendation of how much I would need.

Thanks, Michael

-- Michael S. - Omaha, NE


13 replies so far

View Marshall's profile

Marshall

151 posts in 1519 days


#1 posted 07-28-2015 03:46 PM

I’m also interested in this. I never found a source for concentrated ammonia.

Also, have people had good success fuming? I’m working on a QSWO dining table, but I have some sapwood included. How easy is it to match the sapwood to the heartwood after fuming?

Thanks

-- Marshall - http://mcomisar.tumblr.com

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pintodeluxe

4855 posts in 2277 days


#2 posted 07-28-2015 03:57 PM

Usually janitorial supply houses are the place to find concentrated ammonia. Remember you are looking for super concentrated ammonia in the 28% or more range. Super toxic stuff, be careful.

Marshall, I wouldn’t recommend fuming if you want the sapwood to match the heartwood. The sapwood will be much lighter. Either remove all sapwood, or better yet use a stain that blends and conceals the sapwood. I have found stains with a high solid content work best. Examples include Rodda, Cabot, and Varathane brand stains.
If you use dye, the sapwood can actually stain DARKER than the heartwood.
This table is actually full of sapwood, but I don’t notice it too much with the Rodda stain.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

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pmayer

864 posts in 2529 days


#3 posted 07-28-2015 04:05 PM

Ace Hardware carries a 10% concentration that works much better than typical household ammonia. Not as fast as the real industrial strength, but less scary to work with and easier to get. http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1307957

I’ve used this a few times on smaller projects and it works great in a short period. I’m sure it would take a larger volume to fume a Queen sized bed but I’m sure it would work.

-- PaulMayer, http://www.vernswoodgoods.com

View dschlic1's profile

dschlic1

330 posts in 1434 days


#4 posted 07-28-2015 05:03 PM

Ammonia is used to produce crystal meth. So more than likely you will not find it, and if you did the paper work would kill you.

View schu777's profile

schu777

15 posts in 1769 days


#5 posted 07-28-2015 05:43 PM



Ammonia is used to produce crystal meth. So more than likely you will not find it, and if you did the paper work would kill you.

- dschlic1

Hmm – must have missed that watching “Breaking Bad”...

Guess I’ll be going to Ace Hardware this afternoon – might be able to get 2 for 1 trip as I need something else for a project that they might have…else time to go to HobbyTown.

-- Michael S. - Omaha, NE

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3940 posts in 1957 days


#6 posted 07-28-2015 05:51 PM

Try this place. I got this link when someone asked the same question some time ago. Been meaning to buy some and haven’t got around to it yet.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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ksSlim

1204 posts in 2354 days


#7 posted 07-28-2015 05:54 PM

Many packing house use ammonia for refrigerant.
Find out who they use

-- Sawdust and shavings are therapeutic

View Marshall's profile

Marshall

151 posts in 1519 days


#8 posted 07-28-2015 06:07 PM


This table is actually full of sapwood, but I don t notice it too much with the Rodda stain.

- pintodeluxe

Nice looking table! I normally stain my QSWO with GF Gel Stain. I thought that fuming might be an easier way to go for such a large proejct, but probably not with the sapwood that I have included already. Trying to match sapwood to the fumed heartwood screams PITA.

-- Marshall - http://mcomisar.tumblr.com

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jtriggs

142 posts in 3281 days


#9 posted 07-28-2015 07:21 PM

Don’t mess with that high concentration stuff. I did my whole ottoman and Morris chair in a Christmas tree bag with a small plastic container of 10% ammonia cleaner from Fleet and Farm. Worked in under two hours to give me the perfect soft brown I was looking for. With poly over the top it turned a nice golden brown color. Really brought out the flecks and rays. Check out my chair in my projects.

That high concentration stuff scares me and I’m glad I didn’t go there.

Do some tests on some small wood pieces at various lengths of time. You may be surprised how dark the wood gets in a couple hours.
Jon

-- Jon --Always remember, never live your life by a motto.

View ClammyBallz's profile

ClammyBallz

309 posts in 600 days


#10 posted 07-28-2015 07:42 PM

You can find it on ebay, search for Ammonium Hydroxide. You can also find it at a drafting supply place, it’s used in blueprint machines.

View schu777's profile

schu777

15 posts in 1769 days


#11 posted 07-29-2015 01:00 PM

I went to Ace – picked up the 10% – better than the household, but not as powerful, but should do it’s job, cheap too and quick to get.

Hopefully I’ll be able to build a “container” for the bed and get the beast finished and sold.

-- Michael S. - Omaha, NE

View splintergroup's profile

splintergroup

828 posts in 686 days


#12 posted 07-29-2015 02:05 PM

I’ve been a fan of the Ace Hardware stuff for years. Only 10% but does exactly what I need. My first attempts at fuming were with household ‘lemony scent’ ammonia and they failed to meet my needs. You can get stronger ammonia (used for blueprints i.e. drafting supply house), but the Ace ammonia works well with only a few hours of application.

My technique is to build a booth large enough to fully contain the oak pieces and any fixtures to hold them so that all surfaces are exposed. The booth is a frame (made with PVC pipe and “T”/cross/elbow fittings) covered with drop cloth plastic sheeting (you need to see the color change without having to open up the booth).
The ammonia is poured into a glass baking dish (it is easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission) and then set on the floor of the booth. The air will get quite toxic at this point so use appropriate caution/protection.
I then use a small (5”) computer muffin fan to blow air over the dish and circulate the fumes within the booth.

As for holding the pieces, there are many tricks to be sure all exposed surfaces can get fully fumed.
When I do small parts (think rungs in a Mission style piece), I’ll drill drywall screws into the hidden ends of the tendons and hang the parts on a string with wood clothespins. Larger parts get more elaborate support, but using screws in strategic places provides support points.
There is also the ‘bed of nails’ approach with long drywall screws driven through a scrap sheet of plywood. The oak is rested on the points.

For a queen sized bed (head board and frame I assume), I would consider using a half gallon of the ammonia in a pan. You can always refresh it if the process slows significantly before you reach your desired color.

View rick1955's profile

rick1955

258 posts in 895 days


#13 posted 07-29-2015 08:33 PM

My local ace has 20% janitorial ammonia. Our local supplier of printing paper for plans used to bring us the old ammonia from blue print machines. It was still good for fuming but blue print machines are gone in my area. We used to 20 gallons on hand and it was free. We now anhydrous ammonia as a gas. We did some tests and we turned a piece of 3” white oak, brown almost to the center of the piece.

-- Working smarter with less tools is a true crafts person...

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