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Forum topic by ForestGrl posted 07-24-2015 03:47 AM 1373 views 0 times favorited 39 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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ForestGrl

445 posts in 552 days


07-24-2015 03:47 AM

Topic tags/keywords: delta tilt-top

Need to figure out if this saw is wired for 220 or 110. A friend of mine got it for free, decided he can’t keep it, but it has no plug, so no easy clues as to how it’s wired. It’s an old Delta tilt-top table saw. Can you electric gurus tell by looking at the wiring of the switch (first picture) and/or wiring coming out of motor (second picture—I guess the cord was replaced?)?

Next step, if voltage can be determined, is to wire a new plug for it so we can test it—don’t even know if the motor runs. Any help will be appreciated!

-- My mother said that anyone learning to cook needed a large dog to eat the mistakes. As a sculptor of wood I have always tried to keep a fireplace. (Norman Ridenour)


39 replies so far

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

5765 posts in 952 days


#1 posted 07-24-2015 03:49 AM

Need a pic of the terminals inside the motor please

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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01ntrain

146 posts in 536 days


#2 posted 07-24-2015 04:46 AM

In the top pic it looks like both legs are fused, so I would say it’s probably wired for 220v….

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crank49

3981 posts in 2437 days


#3 posted 07-24-2015 06:08 AM

Looks like a disaster waiting to happen. Basd on those pictures, I would not call that wired. That’s more like cobbled together. There has to be at least half a dozen violations of the electrical code in those pictures.
Please do yourself and your friend a favor and get an electrician to fix that.

I would also agree that having two lines fused would normally indicate a 240V circuit.

-- Michael: Hillary has a long list of accomplishments, though most DAs would refer to them as felonies.

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MrUnix

4234 posts in 1665 days


#4 posted 07-24-2015 06:20 AM

There is no way to tell from those pictures, and no way of knowing what stupid things a PO may have done in the past. It might not even be possible to run that motor on 240v. Post some pictures of the motors nameplate with wiring diagram and another of what is inside the motor junction box.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: If it were mine, I’d just rip out any existing wiring and start fresh… most vintage motors I run across need to have the wiring replaced anyway due to age/condition, and that one looks pretty ancient.

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

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REO

889 posts in 1540 days


#5 posted 07-24-2015 11:24 AM

the switch wont tell you they may have wired it that way because it is a two pole switch. the wires at the motor give a clue that it may be adaptive from 110 t 220 depending on the connection can you back up a little on that picture and if it is available provide a picture of the cover plate on the motor end?

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rwe2156

2198 posts in 946 days


#6 posted 07-24-2015 11:43 AM

There are two fused wires in the box, so its 240v.
If it says “Line 1 & Line 2” that’s a dead giveaway for 240v.
Since the black and white wires are both hot and going directly to the motor, then its a 240v motor set up.

To be absolutely sure, you’ll have to do what Brad said and compare the wiring diagram to the jumper configuration inside the motor that will tell you if its 240.

If there’s no diagram you’ll need to find someone knowledgeable like a motor repair shop.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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HokieKen

1787 posts in 604 days


#7 posted 07-24-2015 12:56 PM

This may be stupid obvious, but I see the motor in the background of the first pic and it has the plate on it. Normally it will tell you the voltage. Do you know what HP rating is? If it’s 2hp or more, it’s most likely 240.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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jonah

687 posts in 2764 days


#8 posted 07-24-2015 01:42 PM

Definitely looks like a third class hack job on the switch there. I’d be wary of using that wiring, for all the reasons noted above.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

5765 posts in 952 days


#9 posted 07-24-2015 01:51 PM



There are two fused wires in the box, so its 240v.
If it says “Line 1 & Line 2” that s a dead giveaway for 240v.
Since the black and white wires are both hot and going directly to the motor, then its a 240v motor set up.

- rwe2156

She said expertise. Not a wild guess.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View bonesbr549's profile

bonesbr549

1176 posts in 2533 days


#10 posted 07-24-2015 02:48 PM

Very interesting wiring job there. I can’t really tell in the picture of the box in pic 1 if that top line is from power or from motor Lets say that the top is from line power I see white (hot) & black (hot) and green ground/neutral. I notice at the bottom the colors are reversed so thinking this is the case that both are hot so the original person that wired it did not care that the colors did not match. (bad way to do it, but i’ve seen it a lot)

Easy way to test. Have a multi meter and put + to white and – to green and see what it reads. Do the same for black/green. If both those read 120+ then it’s 240. As to the motor wiring need a look at the inside panel on the motor that should indicate what the schematic is.

If you just bought it and the cable is not wired to power (I don’t anything about what I saw and would replace). I’d remove all the jumpers and just look at the schematic and see where those leads are going.

If it’s a really old motor, then I’d reccomend posting the info over at OWW group and they will help you short order.

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

1787 posts in 604 days


#11 posted 07-24-2015 05:32 PM



Easy way to test. Have a multi meter and put + to white and – to green and see what it reads. Do the same for black/green. If both those read 120+ then it s 240. As to the motor wiring need a look at the inside panel on the motor that should indicate what the schematic is.

- bonesbr549

Unless I’m missing something, your gonna read 0V everywhere since there is no power source.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View REO's profile

REO

889 posts in 1540 days


#12 posted 07-24-2015 09:19 PM

(chuckle) fridge hit it on the head. Forestgirl there are a couple pictures that will help a lot. a picture as Hokieken has mentioned, of the nameplate on the motor (they often include wiring for the motor, or of the cover plate of the electrical enclosure of the motor (outside or inside this cover often has diagrams for wiring).

220 can be switched either one leg or both depending on the circumstance only one leg needs to be switched and it is still following code. it is entirely possible that originally the switch was set up for 220 and at some point the motor was changed to 110 and the cord end was changed. it would still work and could still be up to code depending on the circumstances. two lugs or fuses doesn’t guarantee either voltage the ONLY way to tell for SURE is to establish the motor wiring. if there was a plug on the end it wouldn’t tell you anything either. someone may have thought they could change the plug to change the voltage, and given up waiting to take it to the “motor shop”.

The green wires that appear to be coming from the motor lead me to believe that this setup has seen quite a bit of modification.

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Kazooman

628 posts in 1418 days


#13 posted 07-24-2015 09:52 PM

Wow! What a mess. I would unscrew the fuse just to be certain that someone hadn’t installed pennies in the sockets to keep the saw running.

Seriously, as others have said, you should check the data plate not the motor to see how it is currently wired (no pun intended, it just slipped out). You can leave it that way, or change it if that is an option. I would recommend replacing everything from the motor to the wall socket. Let the modern breaker in your service panel handle the job of sensing overload and tripping. Get a good quality switch that won’t fail during use. I’ve been there with a switch on a Delta saw that failed in the on position. Scary enough when you just need to clear the work and pull the plug or trip the breaker. A potential disaster in the event of a real problem. It shouldn’t cost too much to put together an appropriate connection and for a free saw it should be affordable.

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Nubsnstubs

826 posts in 1196 days


#14 posted 07-24-2015 10:40 PM

This is not a guess, but a knowledgeable assessment. The motor was made in Cedarburg, Wisconsin, by Doerr Electric Corporation, ... WW Grainger might still sell them or at least have the specs. I know this as I bought a dust collector from them 30 years ago and it had a Doerr motor. Unfortunately, it’s 3 phase, so I can’t help with the wiring diagram. That information will be on the name plate shown in the picture with the fuse box. You can’t see the whole plate, but the info will state whether it is 110, 220 or both, single or 3ph with the hp rating, rpm and everything else you need to know about that motor. .......... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson)

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exelectrician

2327 posts in 1893 days


#15 posted 07-24-2015 11:33 PM

When I was an apprentice many years ago my journeyman asked me “What is the most important wire in this mess????” I stuttered and stammered about different colour wires .. eventually he yelled at me “THE GREEN GROUND CONNECTION …!!!”””

Which I see is left unconnected above , so when anything goes wrong in this set up, someone is in for a shocking time.

-- Love thy neighbour as thyself

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