Working with IPE (Ironwood)

good to know , thanks .

the only wood source in new mexico ,
that caries exotics ,
doesn’t sell them anymore ?

now it’s just ’ cardboards ’ ( domestics ) !

-- david ,new mexico ,allheart

David, you mean there actually is such a source in New Mexico? What is it?

-- Measure twice, then try to figure out which one was right.

What effects does logging it have on the environment and the indigenous population? Are the loggers murdering them? Are the little suckers down there fighting world war III for our right to breath? These questions are not rhetorical, I really do not know.

-- Ain't better or worse than any other woodpecker in the woods.

jjohnston ,
used to be called kitts
then paxtons
then genweld
then orepack
now who knows?
on edith south of osuna on the right
past the patio paver place .

-- david ,new mexico ,allheart

updated 2:27 p.m. ET, Sat., Jan. 10, 2009

WILDWOOD, N.J. – New Jersey’s most popular beach town is about to make a decision that has been criticized by environmentalists around the world — using wood cut from Amazon rainforests to repair a section of its boardwalk.

Wildwood, voted the state’s best beach last summer by vacationers and others, will become just the latest of several New Jersey communities that have opted to use highly durable wood from the Brazilian ipe tree to build or fix boardwalks.

The wood looks good, lasts for decades, is strong, and can withstand moisture and the corrosive effects of salt better than other species of wood, making it popular for use in boardwalks.

Environmental groups contend the world’s tropical rainforests are being wiped out by logging to satisfy demand for this kind of wood.

Mayor Ernest Troiano Jr. said Wildwood reluctantly turned to ipe wood only because a shipment of domestically grown black locust wood arrived in unusable condition.

“I’m not advocating tearing down the Brazilian rainforests,” he said. “We wanted to use black locust, to do the right thing and the environmentally responsible thing. But the wood we ordered is not the wood that was delivered.”

Unless a last-minute alternative can be found, Wildwood will start using ipe wood within the next few weeks to replace aging planks in front of the skee-ball arcades, body-piercing stands and fortune teller booths that line its boardwalk.

“We have the boardwalk torn open and it needs to be fixed and ready to go by Easter,” Troiano said. “If we don’t get that hole closed up, it will be a nightmare for our merchants.”

Brazilian ipe vs. black locust
The move comes a year after Ocean City, a fellow Cape May County beach town, was criticized by environmentalists for using Brazilian ipe to replace part of its boardwalk. Thousands of protest e-mails from as far away as Australia, the Philippines, South Africa and New Zealand flooded the mayor’s computer.

Ipe is a flowering tree that can grow to 100 feet, towering above the forest canopy. It is Brazil’s largest timber export, with half of it sold to customers in the United States.

Ipe wood has been used in boardwalk projects from coast to coast, including Atlantic City, N.J.; New York; Baltimore; Chicago; Miami Beach, and Long Beach and Santa Monica, Calif.

Environmentalists have been trying for years to promote the use of abundant, domestically grown species like black locust as an alternative to rainforest wood. And Wildwood agreed to use black locust for its boardwalk project — a decision that was hailed by Tim Keating, executive director of Rainforest Relief, a New York volunteer group that opposes the use of rainforest wood.

However, a shipment of black locust from a New York supplier arrived in poor condition with pieces of bark, large knots and cracks.

“I equate it to our having paid for a new Cadillac, and having a beat-up 1972 Ford Pinto show up in the driveway,” Troiano said. He estimated 90 percent of the wood was unusable.

‘A traditionalist thing’
The locust wood cost about $100,000, part of a $3.5 million boardwalk repair project. Ocean City, about 20 miles up the coast, spent $1.1 million for Brazilian ipe for its boardwalk; that wood was supposed to be certified as having been harvested responsibly from trusted sources in the Amazon, making it more expensive.

Keating said he is worried that the poor condition of the black locust shipped to Wildwood will give the species a bad reputation among shore towns and discourage its use in other projects. He said he is trying to identify other suppliers of black locust that could be used for the rest of Wildwood’s boardwalk project, even if the current three-block section is rebuilt with ipe wood.

Environmental groups have suggested Wildwood consider using planks made from recycled plastic, which is slowly catching on in boardwalks around the nation. At the Jersey shore, the towns of Belmar and Spring Lake are using it.

But Troiano said the current project has to be done with the same general type of material as ipe or black locust. He also raised aesthetic questions about plastic lumber.

“When people go to a boardwalk, they want to walk on a boardwalk; they don’t want a plastic walk,” Troiano said. “It’s a traditionalist thing. They want wood under their feet.”

-- Ain't better or worse than any other woodpecker in the woods.

The hezz with the little indigenous boadstards, I don’t want to walk on no stinking plastic.

-- Ain't better or worse than any other woodpecker in the woods.

It’s grown to be harvested so it’s a sustainable product. I’ve used Ipe for years its great,tough and even fire rated for use around fireplace surrounds,also use for floors,decks and exterior furniture. It’s so dense it sinks when put in water.

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop Southern Oregon

Jim, do you have a link to that?
I do want to use the stuff.

-- Ain't better or worse than any other woodpecker in the woods.

I don’t want to blindly go where everyone has gone before.

-- Ain't better or worse than any other woodpecker in the woods.

Hey EZ
I buy mine as decking material from my local lumber store. But I do have a link.
http://www.ipedepot.com/picelist01.htm?gclid=CO3Jqof3vJ0CFZla2godlmZovQ
BTW this stuff is super heavy so your better off buying it local instead of having it shipped.

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop Southern Oregon

Also, wear a respirator when you mill it. I made a threshold out of a piece I got from the surplus pile at my local high end deck place, and in putting the rounds on the edges with the router table generated clouds of the most noxious smelling green dust ever.

-- Dan Lyke, Petaluma California, http://www.flutterby.net/User:DanLyke

Not all of it comes from sustained forestry practices or tree farms so if your “soul” is saying “I’m killing a rain forest”....you can always make sure it comes from Sustainable forest practices and or tree farming.

Its heavy, hard like concrete and will take the edge of your tools off, far faster then “normal” North American hardwoods. Ipe can also cause skin irritations and respiratory problems from the dust…...very nasty dust.

That said…..........it makes for fantastic outdoor furniture, decking, outdoor structures like gazebos and pergolas. Too darn heavy for this boy when used for indoor furniture.

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

I don’t mean to discount Dan’s input but I have not experienced “clouds of green dust” I imagine if in tight quarters any wood can make a dust cloud. But I do agree with wearing a respirator when cutting a great amount of Ipe.

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop Southern Oregon

Jim, no, I meant a link on how it’s “grown to be harvested so it’s a sustainable product.”

-- Ain't better or worse than any other woodpecker in the woods.

How about this one Jack

http://www.ipe-wood.com/faq.html

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop Southern Oregon

Thanks Jim, will be back later.

-- Ain't better or worse than any other woodpecker in the woods.

I’m back. Yeah I don’t know, when do we draw the line. I think this tree is not farm friendly though I’m just starting to check it out. It appears to take a long time to grow and it’s picky where. I’ll try to check out the farms.

As much as 80% of Ipe harvesting is done illegally.

We will no longer sell or install ipe. We have a corporate responsibility to refrain from business practices which unarguably are detrimental to the health of the planet, and to persons and communities no matter how far away. Deforestation of the Amazon is contributing significantly to global warming. Illegal deforestation and harvesting in Brazil is responsible for localized extortion, bribery, and violence in the areas around the harvest locations.

Thus far, not only have Brazillian authorities been unable to control the illegal harvesting, but they themselves have become embroiled via bribery and violence.

We urge you to consider options other than tropical hardwoods for your decking needs.

We will support legislation to ban the sale and import of Ipe.

We urge you to research Ipe and Brazillian forest practices before supporting this violence and enviornmental destruction related to Ipe harvest. You could start here:

http://petroleum.berkeley.edu/patzek/Harmful/Materials/nyt_10_16_05.htm

http://www.fsc-watch.org/archives/2007/08/22/SmartWood_misled_US_local_authority_over_FSC_timber

http://ran.org/what_we_do/old_growth/resources/guide_to_endangered_trees/

http://www.mongabay.com/news-index/amazon_logging1.html

From Wikkipida: ”...The demand for ipê wood has risen dramatically in recent years, especially in the United States. By the 1990s, numerous environmental organizations working on preservation of the Amazon Rainforest reported that about 80% of logging in the Brazilian Amazon was illegal. The Brazilian government has confirmed this figure, most notably in a leaked report from the Brazilian Intelligence Agency, in which it was confirmed that five times the amount of wood sanctioned to be cut from legal Amazon concessions was being exported and that numerous staff of the environment agency IBAMA were taking bribes.[6]

Full story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabebuia

Cost analysis, enviornmental impact, and retail price comparisons to the end-use consumer, installed

A cedar deck costs $17.75 per square foot, installed.

Enviornmental impact: Decking cedar is cut and replanted on tree farms, in approximately 30 year cycles. Old growth cedar is not used for tiny decking boards, but is typically sawn into large beams, and sold over seas for top dollar.

A Trex composite deck will cost $23-$26 per square foot, installed, depending on choice of materials.

Environmental impact: Composites are made from recycled materials. Trex is made almost wholly from lumber by products (sawdust) and recycled plastic grocery bags.

* An Ipe deck costs $28-$32 per square foot, installed.

Environmental impact: These trees are rarely replanted. But what’s worse, only two Ipe trees grow in an average rain forest acre, yet the entire acre is cut to harvest the two-tree average. When the rain forest is gone, it’s gone. Forever. The violence created by these harvests is hurting real families, real children, real people. The loss of rain forest is contributing to global warming and climate change.

http://lieuallenindustries.com/brazilianipe.aspx

-- Ain't better or worse than any other woodpecker in the woods.

Jack
I have seen sites like I gave you that are in conflict with your information But I’m not disputing your information ether. Because of the cost difference I’ve only done one EPI deck in 20 years. One of the alternatives you offer is trex which has had lots of recalls because of delamination problems that’s on line too. I build lots of decks from cedar and many individuals here in the noth west will lie across the road were they log it. It’s a complicated problem we need wood to build and we need air to breath purified by trees.

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop Southern Oregon

I have not been everywhere but all the forests that I have seen logged have been replanted by the logging companies as one of their MANY requirements to log. Has something changed? I would like to try IPE and see how it holds up in the high desert. If an IPE outdoor deck lasts 20 or 30 years it would be better for the enviroment than my replacing that same deck two, three or four times during that 20 or 30 years with other woods. By the way, I plant trees because I like to and it is good for the planet but I never saw any of those folks that were laying on the roads stopping logging trucks planting any trees while I, a woodworker, was out planting trees. Contact your local Forest Service and they can lead you to where trees need to be planted even a lot of small towns have programs for this… jm2c

-- Never board, always knotty, lots of growth rings

I hear ya Jim. I don’t know why they fight cedar. The stuff grows fast and you can plant it like corn. I’m sticking with it.

-- Ain't better or worse than any other woodpecker in the woods.

Kindlingmaker
The job I’m on now is fixing up a cedar deck I did 20 years ago. It’s mostly cosmetic work. The treated frame has no issues. Also the cost of the original build and the 20 year fix is less than the IPE.
Treated decks I built up to 30 years ago are still going without or with very minor repairs. I am sure that the treatment and it’s process is bad news for all. I’m going to check it out.

As far as the foresting of the IPE it’s mostly done in unregulated areas from what I gather.
I’m still trying to find an IPE farm. It appears to be propaganda.

-- Ain't better or worse than any other woodpecker in the woods.

Another alternative to consider is heat treated souther yellow pine decking. Has a 25 yr guarantee , doesn’t corrode fasteners, color carried the whole way through timber ,dimensionally stable. Real nice stuff without the chemicals in treated, guilt from imported , and is real wood. link:
http://ecovantagewood.com

-- John , Central PA , www.jcsterling.com

Interesting material I doubt it’s available in the northwest.

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop Southern Oregon