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Forum topic by jackson74 posted 07-16-2015 08:13 PM 573 views 0 times favorited 7 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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jackson74

10 posts in 572 days


07-16-2015 08:13 PM

Hi All,

I am looking to get into finishing a bit with dye stains and durable finishes…

I will be using GF dye stains but cannot decide on a topcoat… I would like to stay away from a true post-cat.

I have narrowed it down to Target 8000cv and GF Enduro Var (but also consider pre-cat lacquers)

I am trying to stay WB, although I typically prefer solvent stuff in general the pro-s seem to out weight the cons here.

The main thing is the price difference, I can get a gallon of 8000 for like $30.00 less then the Enduro var… From reviews both seem great and not sure if the costs difference is justified? Is the GF that much better or is it more forgiving for amateurs?

I am open to other suggestions as well…


7 replies so far

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3938 posts in 1956 days


#1 posted 07-18-2015 07:07 PM

I was waiting for someone else to answer this. I haven’t used either of those specific products, but I have used Target Coatings waterborne finishes and some of the ones offered by GF as well. So I’ll offer this: both are top notch companies, offering top notch products. I suspect either of the finishes you want to use would be very good (remember I have no idea what the application will be used for) and it would make sense, given the rather large price difference, to use the cheaper product. One thing I noticed was that the EM8000 is available in gallons only (?), and the shipping price to my address is what I would call high (cheapest option is $24). The Enduro Var can be bought in quarts (which is still expensive) but has a friendly shipping cost and that amount may be more suited to your project (?). Remember this stuff has a fairly limited shelf life, planning on more than 12 months may be taking a chance. Anyway, some things to think about.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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Shadowrider

183 posts in 672 days


#2 posted 07-18-2015 08:26 PM

I haven’t used the 8000cv so I can’t speak to it, but I used Endura Var in my kitchen cabinets refinish project and love it. It is just about idiot proof if you are brushing with a foam brush. It lays down perfectly every time. It has an amber tint to mimic old school oil finishes in appearance, if you don’t want that go with the GF High Performance in the green labeled can. You can do several coats in a day, you get water cleanup and it’s tough as nails. Like I said, I love it.

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jackson74

10 posts in 572 days


#3 posted 07-19-2015 02:36 AM

Thanks for the help…

I am mainly building cases with water dye stain. The cases will get use and need to be durable… I will be spraying them through a 2 stage turbine system…

The shipping is high but Target has some great coupons such as free shipping and so forth.. The coupon I have now gets me the 8000cv for $30 less then the enduro var… I will probably use the gallon before a years time as I have a lot of finishing products ahead.

I am not opposed to trying the WB lacquers as well if they are as durable or close to the cv varnish… I like the Target one says that it “burns in”.

One thing I continue to see is that people say the Enduro var is extremely user friendly.. I have not done much spray finishing the last years and am sure to be a bit rusty.. But if both are extremely close in user friendly, durability and looks then I’d rather just save the $30.00 and go with the Target 8000cv.

Thanks for the replies!

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Bigkahunaranch

122 posts in 972 days


#4 posted 07-19-2015 02:41 AM

I am a huge Target products fan.
They are top notch in answering questions.
And, yes, if you are on their email list you can get some good deals on the shipping.

Dave

-- To see samples of my work, please visit https://www.facebook.com/bigkahunaranch

View bonesbr549's profile

bonesbr549

1176 posts in 2530 days


#5 posted 07-19-2015 12:19 PM

I love GF stuff and it’s great to work with. I perfer oil base, but thats getting harder and harder to get and cost is going through the roof.

I had several projects where I made the move to WB and have sworn by their dyes for a long time. After calling them and getting reccomendations, I went with High performance and was not dissatisfied at all. I have used the enduro with similar results.

I spray my finishes, and with those coatings, I can shoot 3-5 coats in a single day.

It took me an old Oil base guy a while to adjust to that but like that part and clean up is a breeze. The wife still does not care for me cleaing my guns in the kitchen sink, but what the heck.

I will say this though, the water base finishes do not impart that same warm hue to the projects like oil base, but i think its just me not accepting change. Personally I just don’t like the plastic like properties, but all my clients love it and i get it done quick and clean up is a breeze.

I higly recommend getting a small can of what ever you decide on and do trial pieces to make sure its going to look like what you want.

Nothing like shooting a project to go crap thats not going to work. :)

It will not give you that in the wood effect

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

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jackson74

10 posts in 572 days


#6 posted 07-19-2015 06:22 PM

Thanks for the help…

Perhaps I will get a few different quarts for now and try them out on small house projects…

Bonesbr549… with GF WB Dye stains were you able to layer different colors and build richness? Not mix dye together and apply but rather put down a base of say brown then sand some back, then add some yellow over it?

I know you can do this with things like Transtint, but I think GF premixed cans have a binder… I think it is suppose to allow new layers to soak back in but wondering if it does not allow layering colors as well as something like Transtin with no binder materials…

Thanks

View bonesbr549's profile

bonesbr549

1176 posts in 2530 days


#7 posted 07-19-2015 10:39 PM



Thanks for the help…

Perhaps I will get a few different quarts for now and try them out on small house projects…

Bonesbr549… with GF WB Dye stains were you able to layer different colors and build richness? Not mix dye together and apply but rather put down a base of say brown then sand some back, then add some yellow over it?

I know you can do this with things like Transtint, but I think GF premixed cans have a binder… I think it is suppose to allow new layers to soak back in but wondering if it does not allow layering colors as well as something like Transtin with no binder materials…

Thanks

- jackson74

Sure you can. you can layer, and tint to your desire. I use an apollo sprayer and 3m PPS system with disposable cups which makes it nice.

I will suggest to spray the dye instead of wiping. You get better control. You can mix dyes with no issues either. I work mostly with cherry, and use Charles Neils’ recipe that calls for a mix of Light Brown and Cinnamon to get a cherry that looks 100 years old. Only challenge is the water base dye and water base top coat. That can be a challenge of lifting color. Generally I prefer a water base dye and oil top coat, like an Armour seal.

However after speaking with them in a bed project I did, I sprayed the water and High performance and it went great. I’ll provide the link. The color came out great, and the top coat was great as well.

Here’s the bed.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/22447246@N06/5Xr5nx

Now compare that to the wine cabinet with natural cherry (link provided) That finish is Waterlox. I just love that finish but its very difficult to spray and get right. It loves to run and 24hrs between coats minimum. However that lovely amber hue and in the wood look IMO just can’t be beat.

https://flic.kr/s/aHsjvaxHi6

However I must say putting a coat on and in a couple hours being sand ready is nice and the finish is very forgiving. I’ll give you an example. One of the bedposts I got a little heavy on topcoat and had some color lift. I simply sanded it down to bare wood and bam redid it. It was a piece of cake.

Another nice thing is their finishes all play nice together. If in doubt call the offices they will talk to you ask about your application and tell you what will work. They know their products.

One last thing, the hardest part for me was seeing that cloudy milky color go on. It just looks weird and just don’t look right. However it dries crystal clear and hard as a rock. I prefer the satin.

good luck.

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

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