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Laguna 1412... vibration not put to rest

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Forum topic by ChuckH posted 07-10-2015 02:01 AM 1402 views 0 times favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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ChuckH

69 posts in 1233 days


07-10-2015 02:01 AM

Well I bought a 1412 recently and I had read about the vibration, but there were some attractive features and a good price and I decided to take my changes. How I would have loved to take it out of the box and start sawing, but not to be.

I started with a 1/4 inch timber wolf, and it was vibrating pretty bad. The nickel might last 20 seconds on a good run… 10 on a bad. The blade looked like it might have a bit of a bend, so I thought I’d wait for the resaw king 3/4” to come in – Laguna Blade, Laguna Saw. Just tried it out and that nickel won’t stay put more than 5 seconds or so.

I checked the top wheel for balance – no marble yet, but I gave it 20 spins and marked which spot came up each time. It doesn’t seem too bad in that respect. I haven’t checked the bottom wheel for same. I also haven’t checked for co planar on the wheels, but I guess I’ll give that a try this weekend.

I found two more interesting bits while trying the 3/4” out tonight… well, I knew about one already. Some genius at the plant put the guide adjustment knob on the wrong side of the lower assembly. No big deal, I can fix that.

But… WHY is the trunnion base not flush with the saw??!? I just noticed this tonight and well, I can probably fix that too but it’s going to be a bit more work than the other. Maybe it will solve my vibration problem too… who knows. The table doesn’t seem to wobble at all, so despite not being flush it seems stable.

It sure would have been nice to get the saw setup and just go… but it was not to be. I hope I can get this sorted out and start using it, I’ve heard good things about Laguna (most recently) so I’m not too worried but I must admit a bit disappointed.


11 replies so far

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ChuckH

69 posts in 1233 days


#1 posted 07-11-2015 04:32 PM

Well, here is the first fun fact: the 14-12 has wheels set slightly into the frame. I can’t measure co planar because the frame is in the way. I thought about jointing a board flat and cutting notches into it, but I wanted to be real sure I had a straight reference edge so I’m about to cut some notches out of a steel yard stick instead.

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ChuckH

69 posts in 1233 days


#2 posted 07-11-2015 04:35 PM

Also in the process of looking it over I realized my second picture is not a problem; its just the leveling mechanism.

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jacquesr

339 posts in 889 days


#3 posted 07-11-2015 10:11 PM

What color are the tires?
Did it ship with the latest tires?

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ChuckH

69 posts in 1233 days


#4 posted 07-12-2015 12:24 AM

I don’t know if it has the latest tires or not. They are gray. I just checked co planar… seems bad. The lower wheel is recessed about 13/64 at the top, about 3/32 at the bottom. I only checked the left side; my straight edge is only long enough to span the sides of the wheel so I can’t check the center. The right side has the trunnion mount in the way and I haven’t removed it yet.

I realized that the teeth are sticking out past the rim of the wheel on the bottom, so think I have to push the lower wheel out somehow. I haven’t figured out how to do that exactly. The manual doesn’t cover this operation, and I haven’t found much about it on the wider web.

Here I have the blade centered on the top wheel, and at the same time the lower wheel is not centered at all.

This is how far out of vertical level the blade is

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ChuckH

69 posts in 1233 days


#5 posted 07-12-2015 01:54 AM

well, I just can’t leave well enough alone. I wrote a follow up to my ticket with Laguna (haven’t even heard from them yet, since its the weekend I guess). Told them about the lower wheel tracking, and no sooner had I written “and I’m not messing with it til I hear from you guys because I can’t find any reference as to how to adjust it” I walked over to the machine and started tinkering with the rear adjustment nuts.

It is sooo much better. It still vibrates a little bit – probably more than it should, according to reviews I’ve read with phrases like “whisper smooth” and “cannot tell that it’s on” but the nickel test passes and the vertical level on the blade is nearly perfect.

I know I was supposed to avoid it, but I fiddled with the 9 and 3 o clock bolts as well as the 12 and 6. the 12/6 adjustment is very good. I’m not sure if I got the 9/3 adjustment out of whack at all, because I didn’t want to mess with removing the lower trunnion mount to do the measurement on the right side of the wheel.

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ChuckH

69 posts in 1233 days


#6 posted 07-15-2015 01:49 AM

now that I have the vibration knocked out… more or less, I think its good enough especially considering I have it mounted on a cabinet I made, which is sitting on a mobile base (inspired by husker over here: http://lumberjocks.com/comments/2204169 ). The base is screwed to the cabinet. The cabinet is bolted to the saw. But I still feel a little bit of wobble, I think because of the stationary wheels or maybe the adjustable feet aren’t study enough. That, plus I never tried the factory base so I can’t be sure it isn’t my base.

I’ve moved on to calibrating the rest of the saw; aligning the saw, the ruler, the fence, the guides…

First the fence; as many have reported it was not at all square to the table. I took the fence mount apart, and shimmed it with blue painters tape to bring it square. This was not a good solution, because when I adjusted the fence for drift, the tape was allowing the two parts to slide too much, and I couldn’t get the drift adjusted. I removed the tape, and then noticed Laguna has addressed this issue; on my saw there are two adjustment hex nuts tapped into the fence support which allow the fence to be adjusted square. I am a little dubious that this will hold up – cinching the fence down with the lock knobs is going to put a lot of pressure on a very small area of the aluminum fence.

Then I was able to adjust for drift. The two parts of the fence mount still were sliding on each other; as I tightened the last hex nuts down, it would force the adjustment out of place, no matter how hard I held it down. Finally I got it by cinching the center one down very tight first, then the one closest to the user, finally the one closest to the blade (very carefully).

The drift adjustment is pretty good – its not very far from square to the table. However, despite this, the ruler does not adjust far enough to the left to get 0 to the blade. It’s about 1/8” off. I will probably just ream the slot out a bit to let it move further.

Adjusting the ceramic guides has been the next source of difficulty. The top guide assembly has no rotational adjustment – although the guides can be adjusted to left and right, they are not parallel to the blade. If they make contact at the very front of the blade, there’s about a 1mm gap at the rear.

The lower guide is the worst; it can be adjusted to parallel with the blade because it slides around on the frame mount and there is plenty of wiggle room. However, the cast “L” bracket that mounts to the saw and the guides is not square at all. This caused the rear of the blade to contact the rear guide only at the top. It took NINE layers of blue painters tape to shim the guide assembly into alignment with the blade. I will probably contact Laguna and see about a replacement for this part, since that is a lot of tape and I worry that it will degrade over time and lose this adjustment.

I was able to do some resawing with it, despite these issues, because I just had to try it out. It is delightful to use; I managed to cut a slice of 1/32 off a cherry board I had sitting around, quite easily. Towards the end the blade drifted out of the board, but I was not being particularly meticulous.

I still haven’t verified the wiring is correct on the 120v outlet, as recommended by huskerhardwood, but I’ll take that up soon as well.

I will also probably buy the carter tires, just to see if it smooths the vibration out any further.

I have some pictures of the L bracket and out of alignment guides as well, but didn’t grab the memory card from the shop. I’ll add those later.

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jacquesr

339 posts in 889 days


#7 posted 07-15-2015 01:58 AM

Hello Chuck,
I am very much interested to hear about your experience.
I have still to fully adjust mine, although I have been using it casually for a few months.
I am on vacation for two more weeks, but I will work on it when i come back.

You might want to try this technique for reassign:
http://theapprenticeandthejourneyman.com/bandsaw-resawing/

Keep the posts coming!

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ChuckH

69 posts in 1233 days


#8 posted 07-20-2015 10:36 PM

Here’s the lower guide bracket for reference as to how badly out of square it is.

And here’s a not great picture of the upper guides out of alignment

I finally had some time to talk to a Laguna support guy today, he offered to send me a replacement bracket no problem, but after I described the upper alignment issue he asked to wait on that replacement part until I completed the adjustments, to see if it was fixed. As you can see its pretty out of whack – I didn’t send him any pictures – but I figured no harm in waiting to see how much difference it makes, plus maybe they’d have to ship other parts.

He recommended I adjust the lower wheel with the 3 and 9 o clock bolts, to adjust the angle of the blade to the guides. I spent about two hours banging away at it. Every time I adjusted 3 or 9, the tracking would get off on the top or bottom. Adjusting the tracking at top or bottom changed the angle of the blade. In the end I got it close. I never measured the initial gap but I’d guess it at 0.6mm extending almost to the center of the guide. I finished with probably 1.5 or 1.75 to the center.

Great news, right? Well the thing vibrates like mad now, at least as bad as it was initially. So its back to removing the table top, checking coplanar, adjusting THAT, then back to tracking and 3 and 9 o clock adjustments.

I’m pretty frustrated at this point, but I did fiddle with all the adjustment bolts when I was told to only use the 12 and 6 position for tracking. I’m pretty sure those were all necessary to get into coplanar, but I might not have made quite so much trouble for myself if I had taken it slower. Similarly however, if it had been calibrated correctly from the factory that would have saved me some trouble as well.

I’ve informed the Laguna rep of my current situation and told him I won’t be able to work on it again really until the weekend, so this may be a slow process. Unfortunately with the wheels out of coplanar (I assume) the saw isn’t really usable even to limp by, so it will have to be addressed the first time I hit the shop again.

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Kazooman

628 posts in 1418 days


#9 posted 07-21-2015 01:29 AM

I don’t own any Laguna tools, but it seems to me like you are spending a tremendous amount of time on adjustments and repairs that Laguna should have taken care of before putting the saw in the shipping carton. The picture of how far out the tracking of the blade is on the lower wheel and the misaligned guide bracket would be enough for me to be calling them for a prepaid return shipping label to slap on the box.

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turbov6camaro

19 posts in 808 days


#10 posted 07-28-2015 03:04 PM

any updates on this?

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ChuckH

69 posts in 1233 days


#11 posted 07-28-2015 03:37 PM

Let’s see… at lagunas suggestion I adjusted the tracking to get the blade parallel to the upper guide (the lower guide is sufficiently adjustable that it can be adjusted to meet the blade). At that point I was pretty close, but lost coplanar and patience and got some bad vibration.

The laguna rep suggested now I shim the upper wheel to bring it into line with the lower. I did not get around to replying until late Thursday, and I asked how the wheels were removed (it seems simple but I didn’t want to make any assumptions due to some lines in the manual that made it sound as if the axle bolts were not to be touched); I figured if I was to remove the upper I would check it to balance, and probably check the lower too, although that would mean starting calibration all over again. Better now than later.

He must have been out of the office on Friday because I didn’t hear back until Monday. I had been emailing this guy directly, and I did not bother to call or email laguna.

Sunday I finally went down to the shop. After doing some more measurements, and looking at the angles of the wheels, I thought I could probably get them into coplanar by adjusting upper and lower tracking. Also I was not confident about taking the wheels off, and I was tired of messing with it, and wanted to get sawing.

I did succeed in getting the wheels close to coplanar ( it is very difficult to check co planar on the right side, because of the table trunnions, so I checked left and diagonal.) and the blade close to parallel. After adjusting for drift the fence is almost perpendicular to the table, which I took as a good sign (previously it had about 3/8” drift across the table).

Nickel test passes. It vibrates more than I would like, but I don’t have another $1000 saw to compare I to. Also I am not using the factory base, which I feel may also be a factor; the saw is bolted to the cabinet is bolted to the mobile base. The mobile base is rated high enough, but is the lighter duty amazon $65 one. I’m not confident enough in it to blame the saw.

I would still like to test the balance on the wheels, but I’m done fighting it for now, and it still cuts very well. I did request the replacement lower bracket. After I get it and use the saw a few times I plan on converting this while saga into a proper review.

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