When do I go full time?

Welcome to reality. Most self employed business owners have been through the start up process you just described. If you make it 5 years, you are over the hump.

-- Debt is nothing more than the 21st Century's form of slavery.

I don’t mean to spoil the party, but it’s all about your girls. You need the State job benifits much more than you need to build cabinets full time. Besides, you still get to do something you like. Welcome to responsible parenthood.

-- david roberts, houston area, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but that has never been a problem for me."

Great comments. Thanks for both responses. I likely will continue the current grueling schedule while keeping my state job for the benefits and stable income. It is just that when I am building cabinets, I really enjoy myself and time flies by. While at my state job I am constantly catching my mind wondering off into woodworking. But of course our girls are first and foremost. I just like the idea of doing something I love to do and getting paid well to do it.

-- Jerry Nettrour

I understand where you’re at completely. My advise would be to keep doing what you’re doing as long as you can. Hopefully enough work will come your way that you can justify going full time. It’s really a tough call. You want to be responsible, but you want to follow your dream too. All the greats have failed at sometime. Of course the consequence of failure in your situation and most peoples these days is very steep. Sorry man, I’m not sure if that’s helpful or just plain depressing.

If it’s depressing you better keep the state job. If its motivating, you’ll make it, eventually. We all have setbacks along the, yoiu just have to pickup teh pieces and go for it again.

-- Debt is nothing more than the 21st Century's form of slavery.

i know it is a scary decision

it took me nearly 20 years in my state job before deciding to jump ship and try something else

but this is the most important part i took leave without pay for 12 months so there was always a fallback position

in your case your job might let you cut back hours so you only work part time and still have money coming in

checkout all your options and cover them all before going full time

I was lucky my furniture making course led me in to an apprenticeship cabinet making job

hope this helps

Hooky

-- Happiness is a way of travel , not a destination (Roy Goodman)

hang in there , jerry .

taking care of your family ,
is and should be first .

and who knows ,
maybe the girls ,
might hire you to be a janitor ,
in their cabinet shop !

-- david ,new mexico ,allheart

Family is number one! For 9 years I worked a fourty hour a week state job and had a custom cabinet business. I would put more hours in a the cabinet shop working nights and weekends than I did at my regular job. There is more to life than money and work! I lost a 22 year marriage and spending time with my family.

God Bless
tom

-- Mc Bridge Cabinets, Iowa

I wouldnt quit until you have 1 yr of income saved up (at a min.).

For now to relieve your crazy schedule, you might be able to hire someone to help out part time. Remember those little girls grow up quick!

-- Whether You Think You Can or You Think You Can't, YOU ARE RIGHT!!!

Some times when you fall in the deep end ….you learn to swim real quick.
Having your 2 girls and a wife to think about IS real good motivation NOT TO SCREW UP.
Alot of people I know have gone in by themselves, and succeeded. I am one of them.
WHat you loose on the swings, you make up on the roundabouts.
SOmetimes the going is so good, It’s like surfing a 10’ wave for 5 miles. Smooth and beautiful.
Then other times we eat crackers. I made the decision to go it alone for the sheer idea that I never want to think about—- what would it of been like?
If you stay in your present employ you will have that security of that monthly cheque. Make it happen for yourself.. and the family…. How do you think the others got where they are without sacrifice.
Innovator does have a point….....
weigh up your options and go with gut…....

It looks like the bug has bitten!

Just added on This is what happens when I dont READ everything.
Sorry mate… I got the wrong end of the stick. But anyway all said and done.
Good luck.
Remember the wife is doing this for you too.

-- "Even small steps makes a distance." (Shawn Phillips, musician)

Thanks a lot everyone. I really like the one year income savings, I actually do not think that will not be hard. I have found business to get more consistent since sort of partnering up with the retail center kitchen guy. The cool thing about that is, I used to drive all over the place, meeting with prospective customers, then giving estimates. Now this guy is doing all that for me for free since I do not pay him. I am finding our profit margins are decent, overhead is small, but most of our profits in the past year has gone towards upgrading our equipment to assist in efficiency and quality. I just recently spent around 2000.00 on tool upgrades and before that I bought an akeda jig which we love, but that was something like 450.00. So I guess I am thinking we will likely be able to save very well in the future since I should be able to stop making large tool purchases soon. We are actually getting ready to build a 50’ by 100’ workshop and we aim to pay cash for the building by pooling together the profits from a few jobs.

Also, I may be biased here, but our product really has come a long way and we provide a very nice looking and high quality product and do great work. I believe if a person does that they likely should find work will find them.

-- Jerry Nettrour

Jerry have you looked into going part time or doing some sort of job sharing with your state job. If that is possible it would be a good transition. Good luck

-- Alan, Prince George

Jerry, just a little food for thought…...and a few questions you will have to answer for yourself. There’s a fine line between love and passion to do wookworking and love making money doing woodworking. I, for one have a deep passion for my woodworking, so was willing to take my coat and tie off almost 25 years ago and throw them in the closet to make sawdust for a living. I’ve never lost my passion for woodworking, but there has been times when it’s not fun because of the money making part of it. We started out as a two income family (My wife had a good job also), so giving up my 9 – 5 job with benifits worked out OK. We still had an income to fall back on as my woodworkimg business was growing. Then my wife got sick….... she was still able to work and she had good benefits, but things began to change, she had to finally quit work and go on disabitly which made a difference on our income. More pressure was put on me to make sure my business could pick up the difference. Cancer took my wife 8 years ago and the pressure was directly on my business to take care of my two boys. (My one son was working with me in the business, so he was relying on the business to take care of his family too) and my youngest son was still at home ready to go to college. This is not a sob story, just real life. I can’t suggest what you should do, but make sure you take time to think everything out first. Be “honest” with yourself when looking at the pros and cons. I’m still making sawdust and I have a stronger passion for woodworking today then when I got started, but there will be times when you will be tested. Good luck with whichever choice you make, but whatever you do, take time to enjoy the family.

-- John @ Myrtle Beach

A lot to think about. The benefits with the state certainly are good. It just makes me think a lot about it when I am able to come close to making my state annual salary in 3 average sized kitchen jobs. Today I started working in the shop at 9 am and just quit a 7:30 and I felt like I only put a few hours since the day went by so fast. Plus, I tend to tihnk I would have more time to spend with the family if I were only working 50 or so hours instead of the 60 to 80 hours I am doing now. Certainly a lot to think about. Health benefits are also a concern of mine for the family.

-- Jerry Nettrour

I would check into the cost of new health insurance for the family before making any decision. That really is a big deal. Also when your comparing numbers, don’t forget the income tax you will have to pay at the end of the year, or quartely payments as I do.

As most of the gang says don’t quit you day job. I have been self employed for 38 years and there’s a lot of chicken and feathers going on. The one years income idea is a good start but with a business that has expenses and no benefits plus a slower economy I would hold on to your day job especially if you have less than ten years to retirement. I would also suggest eliminating all the debt you can before starting that full time business.

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop Southern Oregon

Anyone know about good health insurance opportunities? Also, any rule of thumb on how much I should be saving back for tax time. I have been using quicken home and business. We have the program flagging all of our cabinet related expenses. Hopefully I can just let quicken print off my deposits and expenses so I can pay taxes on the profits. Any advise is helpful. We already run a cabinet business full time, it is just that I have a side state job that takes 40 hours of my time. Currently we are wrapping up 2 kitchens and have 2 large kitchen jobs upcoming. We always welcome the challange. Anyone in the San Antonio area that is bored just give me a call. lol

-- Jerry Nettrour

Hey Jerry
You need to get a good tax person There the one’s that can help with income Tax questions. Anyone on else can get you in big trouble. That’s great you have so much work coming your way.

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop Southern Oregon

Thanks everyone. This site is great with a wealth of knowledge. I have been peaking in on this site every now and then for a long time now.

-- Jerry Nettrour

Figure about 30% of net for taxes. If you don’t pay in quarterly, yoiu will pay a penalty for holding out on the gov’t!!

-- Debt is nothing more than the 21st Century's form of slavery.

Don’t forget you have to pay self employment tax which is both halves of Social Security and medicare.

-- Debt is nothing more than the 21st Century's form of slavery.

Probably your safest option is to try to go part time at the state job – the last thing you want is to be so tired that when you make that last cut on a production run you take your thumb with it.

As for security – what job is secure these days? I say bite off more than you can chew and then chew like heck! I spent ten years as a self-employed musician and my daughter is a full-time circus performer – yes it takes commitment and dedication, but then at least you’re doing something you love doing – which is more than a lot of people can say. There’s always a reason NOT to do something – I prefer to ask the question: “under what conditions can i…?” Then set about meeting those conditions and follow your passion.

Cheers
Jerry

-- Jerry, Australia

Just figure 9 out of 10 don’t make it. I’ve seen many fail because of too much work. Is your wife making $35.00 an hour? Would you? This economy has yet to turn.

-- http://www.woodsongsfurniture.com

My two cents worth on this is to ask “Are you vested in the state system?” That can make a difference in your decision. Being vested gives you a few extra options.

-- There is no such thing as scrap wood, only smaller projects.

Jerry

I went to your site and your work looks great. I would strongly suggest that read up and work on “website optimization” so that you site gets more exposure. Here is an example of an easy improvement on your site, that can make a huge difference… Currently you home page’s title says “Top Quality Cabinets”, where as is should be something that you customer bas would search for… “Custom Cabinet Builder San Antonio, TX”. I know plugging on a computer is not as fun as getting out there and working, but it’s essential for local companies to do this. Your customer base wants to find you just as much as you want them to. You basically need to “tell the search engines what you want to show up for”. http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=35291 Here is a good link to get you started. Hiring a company to do this for a local company, will almost never work out for many different reasons. Hope this helps and good luck to you!

-- Brent Builds Fences in Georgia http://www.profenceworks.com http://www.profenceworks.com/wood_fencing/custom.html

I have one thing for you to think of. Once it becomes a “product” that means it is a job, and all the fun is now gone because it is work. I like my job, but it is a job, I get to do woodworking on the side, even a kitchen or 2 here and there, but it is my choice so it is still a hobby, that makes money. Don’t get yourself into a position where you “have to” take jobs to make ends meet and then you don’t enjoy the woodworking any more.

Also the paperwork, insurance and taxes, to me aren’t worth the hassle sometimes.

just my 2 cents

If you have a “real job” with steady income and benifits then my suggestion would be to keep that job with the benifits. With the turn down in housing cabinet shops are folding everywhere and I doubt very seriously in my life time I’ll be able to tell someone again you’re 3rd or fouth in line before we can get to you.
Like one poster said it’s fun when you maing money but when you’re not making money then it get’s depressing and the fun goes away.
I would think family first, job second and cabinet shop last. This is all I’ve ever done and for over a year now it’s not been nice to us nor any cabinet shop I know. Overhead doesn’t stop nor do the other bills and especially the family bills. I’m in agreement like tool dad, the paperwork, the taxes, the insurance and if you’re self employed then the list goes on. I know of one shop that had all they could keep up with last year durning the turndown, today he’s laying his people off and closing his doors. I have another friend that was a one man shop geared up with a big showroom and design center..no longer in business and that shut him down so now he’s working for a roofing company at the age of 60 and says he can’t last much longer. I can tell you horror stories about working for design centers and a lot of builders..they get their money first and the cabinet man is last on their list of paying and I’ve seen it happen many times, the cabinet man doesn’t get paid.
Job Security you seem to have, my advise would be to keep it and let the cabinet business make it’s on way and if it doesn’t then you still have Job Security and time to “enjoy” woodworking. My 2 cents worth

Bruc

-- "Give The Gift of Life, Adopt A Child"