"They" say we are out of the recession?

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Forum topic by Bob #2 posted 09-26-2009 03:33 PM 4149 views 0 times favorited 222 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Bob #2

3809 posts in 3985 days

09-26-2009 03:33 PM

Topic tags/keywords: resource tip

This is what declining world trade looks like…

From misc pics 2009

This picture was taken near the Port of Singapore – the busiest port in the world in terms of total shipping tonnage. There are no wakes. These ships are parked.

And the picture doesn’t do it justice. According to a report by the Daily Mail, this is the largest fleet of ships ever assembled in history. Locals say you can’t even see the horizon. More ships than that of the British and American navies combined!

It is a visible reminder of just how bad things are in the worldwide economy. Two years ago these ships would have been steaming towards the United States loaded with consumer goods for Christmas. Today, they’re idle. Not exactly a harbinger for a robust holiday sales season.
“exerpt from Investors Daily Edge”


-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

222 replies so far

View TomK 's profile


504 posts in 3838 days

#1 posted 09-26-2009 04:50 PM

That’s what I hear from Chairman Obama too. Wait until he nationalizes shipping too.

-- If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait until it's free! PJ O'Rourke

View SteveMI's profile


1092 posts in 3258 days

#2 posted 09-26-2009 05:09 PM

I was in Singapore for couple days in February 2006 and the port was a constant state motion. It is funny that Singapore is just a port that transfers the shiploads and doesn’t really produce any amount of goods. The country is very small actually and has all kinds of interesting stories.

Weather was great and from a tall building all I could see to the horizon were huge freighters.

Was told, at that time, there was a seasonal shortage of 40 foot steel containers.


View TheCaver's profile


288 posts in 3803 days

#3 posted 09-26-2009 05:31 PM

Maybe had we not spent $864 billion dollars on a useless, fear mongering war that continues to drain our coffers we’d have a few extra ducats in the coffers.

And no one said we were “out” of the recession, I’d like to see where your information came from, please post a link.

And FYI, all of the larger banks have repaid their loans, to the tune of about $39 billion dollars in interest (read profit to the fed), admittedly however, some of the smaller banks might fail and leave us with that burden, so if anything, TARP is a wash. See AP or NYT for a complete report on this issued at the beginning of this month).

What I am saying is, let’s keep calm and not use hearsay or personal experiences when dealing with global issues. Do some research (outside of Fox News) and try not to trend or localize worldwide patterns on a friends brother or your mother in law’s advise :)

As for health care Tom, I have a daughter that needed open heart surgery at 3mo of age which bankrupted us during a rough time. And just recently, even though I make 6 figures, a recent hospital stay (with good insurance) cost us 14k out of pocket, which I cannot pay. Like I said above, I try not to use personal experice when learning about these issues, the fact is that 67% of bankruptcies in the US are related to health care (I can send a link if you want the source). Is this who we are as Americans? Do we let people go bankrupt or die for a few extra dollars in taxes? If it is, shame on us.


-- Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan

View a1Jim's profile


117061 posts in 3541 days

#4 posted 09-26-2009 05:40 PM

Wow Interesting

-- wood crafting & woodworking classes

View Julian's profile


880 posts in 3489 days

#5 posted 09-26-2009 05:55 PM

I’ll steer clear of JC’s post and add that around here in the midwest where the housing market was a giant part of our economy that it has screached to a complete halt. There are subdivisions for 40 miles down my street that had just been started last year. Many of them have the sewer and water ran, and some even have curbs and roads with a few models and maybe a home or two. There hasn’t been any activity with the exception of one single subdivision which built two homes this year. This is a direct reflection of our economy and shows that it’s far from over. People with money are spending it, but not on new houses. They are spending it on upgrading their existing homes, which is why I am not framing houses anymore and switched gears to home remodeling.

The union workers are feeling this the most as they are the most expensive workforce in the country and are only geared up for mass production track houses. I had to cross a picket line just to work yesterday, and will be doing it again on Monday. All I say is “sorry folks, but you made your own bed, now lay in it. I need to work to feed my family.”

-- Julian, Park Forest, IL

View RetiredCoastie's profile


999 posts in 3146 days

#6 posted 09-26-2009 06:09 PM

Carver, I hope your daughter is OK. I have no problem helping Americans that need help with health care but I don’t believe that it is the governments job to take over health care and force the American taxpayer into a system that is run by the government. The government isn’t efficient in running squat. We send money to countries that hate us and want to kill us. Take that money and use it for our legal citizens and only those that need it. Take care of our citizens first before one penny goes overseas.

The tarp bailout is another waist of taxpayers money. Let the free enterprise system work. Yes there are crooks out there and they should be punished along with the politicians that saw it and let it happen. If a company uses bad practises and it fails then I say good riddance but don’t take money out of my pocket to cover their poor choices. The biggest problem we have is this belief that someone owes us something as well as the instant gratification syndrome. No one wants to save for anything, they just go out and buy it on credit with no money down and then when they can’t pay for it they want to blame someone else for their bad luck. Well its time for people to accept responsibility for their Lott in life and quit looking for the government (taxpayers) to bail them out for poor choices they’ve made. Again I believe we as a nation should help those that can’t help themselves but I do not want to see us become a welfare state.

Get the government out of my life and quit stealing my hard earned money!

-- Proud Supporter of Homes For Our Troops

View poopiekat's profile


4349 posts in 3698 days

#7 posted 09-26-2009 06:11 PM

What good is international trade? America has been on the losing end of international trade for decades!!! Can anyone tell me how it benefits us to buy 4 times as much from China than they buy from us? Think about it, $4 of our money goes overseas for every dollar that comes back. Idle boats in the Asian ports strengthen America’s economy every day. Rejoice.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View TheCaver's profile


288 posts in 3803 days

#8 posted 09-26-2009 06:56 PM

If we’re staying on the topic of international trade then I suggest you try and imagine the cost of everything you buy on a daily basis if it were all made here.

There are some jobs that frankly we can do without. If Americans made say, flatware or some other small durable good noone could afford to live! If we didn’t have immigrant labor we’d pay $3 for an orange! I suppose I am on the wrong site to be arguing this point as most woodworkers seem to be of the nationalist, neo-con, faux news watching, conspiracy theory loving, immigrant (remember we’re all immigrants) hating variety.

I believe that most of the opinions above are slightly ignorant of the facts and the big picture. It’s easy to say “let the banks fail” and “the government can’t run anything” but its hard to defend those positions from a point of statistical relevance, ie, there is not much proof to support those claims. Is there excess and waste in gvmt? Sure. Are some people greedy scumbags? Sure. But if you believe that the majority of Americans are hard working, honest people then you have a very different outlook on life and government in general.

Healthy skepticism of gvmt is honorable and even necessary, but when theories, what ifs and nonfactual assumptions are used to make policy, it only hurts us as a whole.

Isolating ourselves from the world and building walls is NOT the way to prosperity. Becoming a global community free from nationalistic, dogmatic and religious barriers is the only way forward. It’s just a shame that the only thing standing in our way is us…..


-- Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan

View DaleM's profile


958 posts in 3347 days

#9 posted 09-26-2009 07:14 PM

So JC, the only reason anyone would disagree with you is because of ignorance? And you say don’t let personal experiences influence you? So, should I let Michael Moore tell me the real deal instead, and just be one of his sheep regardless of my real world experience? That might work for you, but not for me. It’s obvious you are very prejudiced and have already written off any comments anyone will make that are not like your own, so you enjoy your life with blinders on. You keep on thinking you know better than everyone on here and enjoy yourself and your hatred of your fellow Americans.

-- Dale Manning, Carthage, NY

View Gio's profile


29 posts in 3135 days

#10 posted 09-26-2009 07:21 PM

Well said Comrade JC.

-- Gio,

View reggiek's profile


2240 posts in 3234 days

#11 posted 09-26-2009 07:30 PM

An old saying goes – “Don’t discuss politics and religion if you want to stay friends,” so I will just get back to reviewing the craft related blogs.

-- Woodworking.....My small slice of heaven!

View RetiredCoastie's profile


999 posts in 3146 days

#12 posted 09-26-2009 07:31 PM

Typical socialist thinking, you have to call people names that don’t agree with your way of thinking.

I have no issue with immigrants coming here but there is a process in place to become a citizen and it should be followed. Statistics don’t always tell the true story because statistics can and are manipulated all the time depending on what you want them to show. The difference between the CBO and our liberal congress and the White house in regards to the cost estimates of health care is a prime example.

A large portion of our produce is imported and that is why it’s as cheap as it is not because of an immigrant. Our farmers and ranchers are being chocked out so we can stop global warming (that hasn’t been proven) or save some obscure insect from extinction. At one time we were the largest food producer in the world and our farmers and ranchers were prosperous but then the government came in and tilted the table on them with crop manipulation and by the way we send tax dollars to countries to benefit there agriculture enterprises and have driven independent farmers out of business. I believe in conservation but lets be reasonable and do it in a way that makes sense.

No one is talking about Isolating ourselves but we should take care of ourselves first.

-- Proud Supporter of Homes For Our Troops

View TheCaver's profile


288 posts in 3803 days

#13 posted 09-26-2009 08:00 PM

Indeed Reggie.

Amazing how intertwined this philosophy is with religion. Anyone with the capacity for belief in something without evidence is also predisposed to thinking that the world is evil, the government is the enemy and any evidence to the contrary is “the work of the devil” or some other force. Even mulitple studies by independent agencies are somehow tainted as is the entire media world. Those Fox news nuts honestly believe that EVERY other major news outlet is a puppet of the “regime” and that Fox news is the shining becon of honesty in a sea of deceit and treachery. What a farce. Wake up and think about it (no, I don’t like Micheal Moore either, I think he’s just as bad in the other direction).

Wait, were we discussing politics or religion? It matters not as the lines are typically blurred on the right…..

And in case you haven’t noticed, America is NOT a democracy. Socialism and Communism are simply words the same old, tired, rightist propaganda engines use to try to scare Americans away from changing the status quo. Want to be responsible for meat or drug safety? Hell, lets do away with the FDA while we’re at it. We need government like it or not. What alarmist nonsense….Like we’re going to wake up to a Stalinist tomorrow or something…..oh, wait, you probably believe that too….

I get PM’s all the time on this site when I speak up, the vast majority of them positive but unwilling to back me up in public because the majority of woodworkers for some reason are in crazy camp, but not saying anything is worse IMO….Imagine that, a significant of your fellow WW’s on this site are afraid that you will no longer respect them or consider them part of the family because they think differently than you…..I still respect you all as woodworkers, but I won’t be a part of this nonsense….


-- Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan

View TomK 's profile


504 posts in 3838 days

#14 posted 09-26-2009 08:47 PM

Where to start, JC? I too had a daughter who had a mitral valve repaired before the age of two. She is now 15 and 1st in her HS class, and first chair flute in the band. We had known since her birth that she had the murmur, but at her 2 yr checkup they found it had gotten much worse. Within four days, surgery was completed and she spent a week in intensive care and another week in the recovery ward. This was 13 yrs ago, and my PRIVATE health insurance picked up the vast majority of the bill. I know that the surgery would not have happened this quickly or efficiently with government run “healthcare”. My personal physician has already told his patients that he is retiring (at age 50) if the “public” option is passed. Not because he is ready, but because he came from England and doesn’t want to work again under a government run healthcare system. He has “been there, done that.” The idea that public and private health plans can co-exist for more than a few years is ridiculous. The only reason our postal system is even half efficient is that they are prevented by statute from making a profit, so any analogies to healthcare are based on false logic.

Also, only liberals seem to feel comforted by applying general labels like neo-con to those who do not agree with them. There is nothing neo about me. I AM conservative and proud! I am all for legal immigration, but what is it about the word “illegal” that you don’t see an issue with?

How do you see conservatives as being more prone to believing in conspiracy theories? I argue with a co-worker all the time who’s favorite website is And, it seems to me the liberals like Oliver Stoned and Micheal Less have the conspiracy theory market sewn up.

I am glad your daughter recovered well and I think we are both blessed, yes I say again blessed!

-- If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait until it's free! PJ O'Rourke

View DaleM's profile


958 posts in 3347 days

#15 posted 09-26-2009 09:06 PM

JC, are you really schizophrenic or what? In your latest post, you said people who believe in something without evidence are wrong, but in your earlier post you said believe the news media (except Fox) and don’t believe your personal experiences. Also, you were the one who stirred things up here, just as you did a while back on Allison’s post, then reacted to everyone as if they were attacking you and said we needed to stick to woodworking. I guess JC is like a box of chocolates….

-- Dale Manning, Carthage, NY

showing 1 through 15 of 222 replies

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