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New Bandsaw (Grizzly tent sale) - Wheel Balance/Wobble Question

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Forum topic by Keith Kelly posted 06-07-2015 07:27 PM 1301 views 0 times favorited 29 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Keith Kelly

223 posts in 1124 days


06-07-2015 07:27 PM

I scored a 17” Grizzly G0513×2-BF at the Springfield tent sale (I’ll write up more about the sale in a separate topic).

The sticker said “some vibration, possible bad lower wheel.” So, I priced the wheel but took the saw home to get running first. Sure enough, there’s a very slight wobble. Super slight. The saw is in completely good shape otherwise… even costmetically!

The lower wheel actually looks good. It’s the upper one that seems to be the culprit. Here’s some details on my findings with a dial indicator.
  • Lower Wheel: 0.003” variance during spin. Variance not visible with human eye.
  • Upper Wheel: 0.014” variance during spin. Variance visible with human eye if viewing the wheel at an extreme angle (parallel)

This is good, because the upper wheel only costs $150 (the lower would have cost $213)

I’m assuming
  • .003” is within reasonable tolerances, so the lower wheel is fine.
  • the upper wheel needs replaced, since the variation is uneven. It’s not a gradual rise/fall like would be the case if it wasn’t mounted properly. The wheel seems to vary a bit throughout the range. For instance, at 90/180/270/360 rotation, the readout is more like .000/.007/.003/.012

Also, I positioned the dial indicator on the side of the wheel part where the tire is. Where the tire is mounted, the side edge of that. That was the smoothest part so I figured that would be the most accurate. If i need to measure elsewhere, let me know and I’ll do that.

Before I spend $150 on a new wheel, do you have any recommendations of other things to check?

-- Keith - Bolivar, Missouri, http://www.SquareOneWoodworks.com


29 replies so far

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

493 posts in 2783 days


#1 posted 06-07-2015 07:39 PM

The first thing I would do at this point is take the top wheel out of the equation. I would remove the band and run the saw, even if the lower wheel seems to be relatively round the vibration could be all or in part caused by a balance issue in the wheel. Note if the lower wheel is the issue the frequency of the vibration will be the same (or very close) but it is possible the amplitude will change without the band and upper wheel in the mix.

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Keith Kelly

223 posts in 1124 days


#2 posted 06-07-2015 09:34 PM

Great idea. I’ll do that. If it runs smooth then it has to be the upper wheel, right?

-- Keith - Bolivar, Missouri, http://www.SquareOneWoodworks.com

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JoeinGa

7479 posts in 1468 days


#3 posted 06-07-2015 09:38 PM

Might try to see if you can “clock” that upper wheel. Could possibly something as simple as a piece of dirt got under one edge of it when they were assembling it, causing that wobble.

-- Perform A Random Act Of Kindness Today ... Pay It Forward

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Keith Kelly

223 posts in 1124 days


#4 posted 06-07-2015 09:53 PM



The first thing I would do at this point is take the top wheel out of the equation. I would remove the band and run the saw, even if the lower wheel seems to be relatively round the vibration could be all or in part caused by a balance issue in the wheel. Note if the lower wheel is the issue the frequency of the vibration will be the same (or very close) but it is possible the amplitude will change without the band and upper wheel in the mix.

- AHuxley

Good idea.

ok, this is confusing. With the blade off, there is still vibration. Maybe a little less, but still vibration with just the lower wheel on.

Do you think it’s possible that the 0.012 on the top is OK, and maybe the issue is a weight balancing issue with the lower wheel?

-- Keith - Bolivar, Missouri, http://www.SquareOneWoodworks.com

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AHuxley

493 posts in 2783 days


#5 posted 06-07-2015 10:13 PM


Do you think it s possible that the 0.012 on the top is OK, and maybe the issue is a weight balancing issue with the lower wheel?

- Keith Kelly

This was what I suspected, it is unlikely the Grizzly tech went to the point of diagnosing it and then didn’t eliminate the upper wheel. There is still the issue of whether it is the lower wheel, the pulleys, the belt or the motor.

Now I would remove the lower wheel which if the vibration goes away then it gives indication that it is the wheel. Based on the diagnosis by Grizzly I would assume that is the case… more than likely. If removal does eliminate the vibration then make a temporary shaft (wood dowel, metal rod or even a large bolt) that can be clamped down. Spin the wheel on it an mark where it stops, doing it over and over will illustrate the heavy section if it stops at a specific point. If you find a heavy spot you can remove material from the wheel (you will likely see where it has been drilled from the factory on the back in some areas, many of the Grizzly wheels I have seen look like a moonscape on the back).

PS if you happen to have a smaller bearing that will fit inside the large wheel bearing you can balance the wheel on a screwdriver but I tend to use a large piece of Allthread that is near the ID of the wheel bearing.

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Keith Kelly

223 posts in 1124 days


#6 posted 06-08-2015 02:13 AM

Ok I pulled the bet off the motor and wheel to see if there was still vibration, and there was not.

I’m guessing it’s the lower wheel as Grizzly noted.

There is a slight scratching sound from the motor that I would like to debug. Probably something rubbing slightly. Here is a video: [scratch noise @ 1:30]


View on YouTube

-- Keith - Bolivar, Missouri, http://www.SquareOneWoodworks.com

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Keith Kelly

223 posts in 1124 days


#7 posted 06-08-2015 03:53 AM

Well I had some fascinating findings!

Scratching Noise: Fixed.
It was the motor brake. The manual mentioned an adjustment that could be made, and it turns out that the brake was misadjusted and slightly too close. I suspect there was a burr on one of the pieces that was rubbing each time it went around. So, I adjusted it, and the noise is gone. The saw still stops in 3 seconds.

Wobble:
  • Blade on = wobble more pronounced
  • Blade off = wobble, but slightly less bad
  • (I suspect this is just a result of the lower problem amplifying upward through the blade)
  • Wobble is slower when the 1700fpm is set via pulleys. Faster @ 3500fpm

New Findings
When turning the wheel with one hand, I let my other hand ride/feel the belt between the pulleys. I felt a thick spot, and it doesn’t seem to be at a seam. So, I loosened the motor to where it would still power the wheels to spin at full speed, but the belt was ridiculously loose. And, the wobble was gone. I’m beginning to think I may have a belt problem here.

So, I’m going to order a new belt (might as well get link style) and see what happens :)

-- Keith - Bolivar, Missouri, http://www.SquareOneWoodworks.com

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AHuxley

493 posts in 2783 days


#8 posted 06-08-2015 04:15 AM

Well you went through things exactly as I would have (except I was thinking don’t discount the belt when I watched the video before I read your post). I was going to say drop by a Harbor Freight and get a link belt but given where you are at unless you commute to Springfield it may be a hike. I would get a V belt locally even in a small town belts should not be hard to find, unless you really don’t mind waiting. In the end I think you have it narrowed down to the belt or one (or both) of the pulleys, the belt is a good guess based on what you felt but it still could be one or both of the pulleys. I assume you checked the pulley set screws are tight. You could always pull the wheel and see if you can see any eccentricity as the pulleys run and depending on your testing setup (easy with a magnetic base) you could check the runout on the pulleys BUT be aware the lips of cheap pulleys can be off by a lot but the pulley still run fine. If nothing else you are narrowing it down!

BTW how much did you pay for the BS?

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Keith Kelly

223 posts in 1124 days


#9 posted 06-08-2015 04:26 AM

Thanks for the additional info. I’ll stop by the auto parts store and pick up a belt so I can do some quicker debugging.

I haven’t checked the set screws on the pulleys yet, so thanks for the tip; I’ll try that.

$550

-- Keith - Bolivar, Missouri, http://www.SquareOneWoodworks.com

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AHuxley

493 posts in 2783 days


#10 posted 06-08-2015 04:33 AM

You got a steal of a deal especially when it seems your issue is limited to the pulleys and belt…

Oh and I assume you know the next order needs to be “real” blades and don’t judge the saw on the blade that came with it!

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Keith Kelly

223 posts in 1124 days


#11 posted 06-08-2015 04:37 AM

Yep. Considering that I was ready to buy the G0513X2 brand new for $1050, I feel like I can put quite a bit into this and still feel like I got a deal. I’m happy :)

And yes, I ordered some good blades from Highland Woodworking. I’ve been very impressed with each and every blade I have purchased from there (compared to other brands I have used). Their blades turned my old 10” craftsman into quite the super saw.

-- Keith - Bolivar, Missouri, http://www.SquareOneWoodworks.com

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

493 posts in 2783 days


#12 posted 06-08-2015 05:13 AM



Yep. Considering that I was ready to buy the G0513X2 brand new for $1050, I feel like I can put quite a bit into this and still feel like I got a deal. I m happy :)

And yes, I ordered some good blades from Highland Woodworking. I ve been very impressed with each and every blade I have purchased from there (compared to other brands I have used). Their blades turned my old 10” craftsman into quite the super saw.

- Keith Kelly

FYI is you are buying the Woodslicer from them you can get the same blade stock from Iturra as the Blade Runner for less and the “Kerfmaster” from Spectrum Supply for about half as much. By using Spectrum you cut out a middleman as they are an industrial supply house and weld theirs from blade stock where Highland buys them welded.

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Keith Kelly

223 posts in 1124 days


#13 posted 06-08-2015 05:17 AM


Yep. Considering that I was ready to buy the G0513X2 brand new for $1050, I feel like I can put quite a bit into this and still feel like I got a deal. I m happy :)

And yes, I ordered some good blades from Highland Woodworking. I ve been very impressed with each and every blade I have purchased from there (compared to other brands I have used). Their blades turned my old 10” craftsman into quite the super saw.

- Keith Kelly

FYI is you are buying the Woodslicer from them you can get the same blade stock from Iturra as the Blade Runner for less and the “Kerfmaster” from Spectrum Supply for about half as much. By using Spectrum you cut out a middleman as they are an industrial supply house and weld theirs from blade stock where Highland buys them welded.

- AHuxley

Good to know. Wish I’d known yesterday.

-- Keith - Bolivar, Missouri, http://www.SquareOneWoodworks.com

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AHuxley

493 posts in 2783 days


#14 posted 06-08-2015 05:31 AM


Good to know. Wish I d known yesterday.

- Keith Kelly

The silver lining is blades are consumable so you will have plenty of opportunities to save in the future. This thread has some of my thoughts on BS blades: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/86482

If you don’t need the specific attributes of the Woodslicer et al then bi-metal blades are much more economical in the long run since I am going to guess you are interested in a carbide tipped (~$300) blade for your saw…

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Keith Kelly

223 posts in 1124 days


#15 posted 06-08-2015 01:08 PM

I’m having trouble getting the lower wheel off. Any ideas before I go try knocking things or finding a puller of some sort?

-- Keith - Bolivar, Missouri, http://www.SquareOneWoodworks.com

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