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Forum topic by JerryinCreek posted 06-03-2015 03:27 PM 939 views 0 times favorited 18 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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JerryinCreek

155 posts in 1305 days


06-03-2015 03:27 PM

A friend tells me that his research indicates that most all table saws (and other machines) come out of the same factory in Taiwan and that the only difference between a $1,500 Grizzly and my $4,000 Sawstop is the flesh detection mechanism. What is the truth?

-- Jerry, Johnson Creek, WI "If it was meant to be different it would be."


18 replies so far

View hotncold's profile

hotncold

762 posts in 1008 days


#1 posted 06-03-2015 03:37 PM

Jerry, I’m not sure about coming from the same factory. Maybe. But if that’s true, there are certainly differences in the “requirements” from Grizzly and Sawstop. My Grizzly jointer had so much cosmoline on it, it took some time just to get it ready to assemble. Not so with my Sawstop. The Sawstop, once assembled, required absolutely no “adjusting”. Not so with the Grizzly.
While they may come from the same “building”, I have a hard time believing the same workers build the machines to the same specifications.
I certainly can’t refute or confirm but circumstantial evidence seems to point to vastly different specifications.
Hope you are well.

-- Dennie - Tennessee

View BinghamtonEd's profile

BinghamtonEd

2281 posts in 1833 days


#2 posted 06-03-2015 03:49 PM

Did you ask your friend where he got this information? If someone told me that, I’d want some sort of data to back it up.

-- - The mightiest oak in the forest is just a little nut that held its ground.

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Don10

27 posts in 868 days


#3 posted 06-03-2015 04:28 PM

Hi Jerry, I read that both saws (SawStop and Grizzley 690) were made in the same factory in China not Taiwan. The Grizzley 1023 is built in Taiwan. I would have to agree that although the saws are built in the same plant, they would be held to a different quality standard. I would think that SawStop has a much more rigorous standard than the Grizz 690. As far as my source goes – I read it somewhere on the Internet and I cannot verify the source for accuracy. Hope this helps. The old adage you get what you pay for most certainly applies to table saws.

-- Don, Silver City New Mexico, parsimony, utility and elegance - blueprint for any project.

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JerryinCreek

155 posts in 1305 days


#4 posted 06-03-2015 07:49 PM

Thanks all for your input. Don, my SawStop 3hp cabinet saw was manufactured in Taiwan. Sounds like a plausible answer – same plant, different specs. Don’t forget to change your profile now that you’re out of the frozen tundra!

-- Jerry, Johnson Creek, WI "If it was meant to be different it would be."

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

4169 posts in 3206 days


#5 posted 06-03-2015 08:53 PM

Jerry – - suspect your friend was just jerking your chain to say you “wasted” money on a sawstop as it is the same machine as the grizzly.
Which isn’t true when you really compare.

But in general I agree that for many powertools… there are mostly color and warrantee differences, to base the shelf price from. Especially hand power tools like cordless drills, brad nailers, angle grinders, disc sanders etc… (stuff that really has no alignment or set up involved)

-- 'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' ~George Carlin

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moke

861 posts in 2240 days


#6 posted 06-04-2015 05:36 PM

If you do some research, power tools are manufactured in many different countries….most are Chinese, Korean, or the Pacific rim countries.

I have owned and operated a Camera store/Studio for a very long time. At one point I served on a board that contracted for various companies for After-market equipment. I learned one thing….that is the most confusing and complicated thing I have ever dealt with. To put it in woodworking example….and this is a “made up” scenario….one company may make wood lathes. That same building and workers may have several company names all at once, and they may change those names periodically. That company may actually make three, four, five or more lathes/brands. They may or may not look the same….but a lot of times they are identical but in a different color. But here is the wierd thing…..let’s say Rockler is one of the vendors….they may have their own set of tolerances with periodic inspections, which the company must adhere to, in order to maitain that contract. So in essence, while some of the lathes may look the same, and people swear the are the same lathe, they may not be the same quality. Lots of times the lathe that was not going to be tight enough in tolerance os sold at a lower price to another vendor, in a different color, etc….

I served on that board for only one term, (1 year) and got off. I am not sure how you could have kept track. At that time I was tracking Lenses and batteries. There were 19 aftermarket lens manufacturer…..if they stepped on another’s patent, they simply changed names and corporate papers. Now, batteries were different, I made freinds with the “battery guy”. There were only three manufacturers for all the battery companies at that time, but they were all in different countries. As you can see, for your friend to say thay are all made in the same factory is greatly over simplified from an extremely complex truth.

Keep in mind this was in 1994, it could be different now, but my guess would be with more countries embracing capitalism it is worse now!!!

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JerryinCreek

155 posts in 1305 days


#7 posted 06-04-2015 06:10 PM

moke – that is facinating information! And, it confirms the confusion! I often wondered when I saw a machine in a big box store that looked just like a brand I knew but had a greatly reduced price. Thank you for passing along your first-hand knowledge.

-- Jerry, Johnson Creek, WI "If it was meant to be different it would be."

View DKV's profile

DKV

3940 posts in 1968 days


#8 posted 06-04-2015 08:45 PM

To piggyback on moke..The attention to detail of a finished product, most often referring to a manufactured products (cars, handguns, etc) but also applicable to almost any human production (tv shows, websites, etc). Fit refers to how well the component parts come together, and finish refers to the completeness or perfection of the work.
It’s all about specified form, fit, function, finish. Lesser (cheaper) products are a lot more loosey, goosey with the form, fit, finish…etc.
You get what you pay for.

-- This is a Troll Free zone.

View moke's profile

moke

861 posts in 2240 days


#9 posted 06-05-2015 05:54 PM

DKV is exactly right….the fit/finish is exactly what the fulltime contractors look at first….it is not always the only factor, but a very important one. I think as we buy a cheaper tool, that would be prudent to consider.

While I was never in the Orient, there are guys that travel there and generate the reports that people like me read. They look at all the products, photograph the plant exterior, interior and some of the products. I always suspected they would assess a number of industries, and generate reports, then the “middle-man” would purchase those reports. I have to say that when I was doing this, was when China/Vietnam was really coming into being a major manufacturers. It was kind of like the old-west….anything goes kind of scenario. Now, I know there are a lot more international laws. Back then patents, really only meant something to the country purchasing, and corporate spying to steal others product ideas, was very common.

I have noticed many similar woodworking products which I am sure fall under some of the Aftermarket manufacturing things I have mentioned. A bunch of the cheaper oscilating spindle sanders for one, I bet I have seen 6 or 7 different brand names, triton, central machine, ryobi, just to name a few. They are identical except for the color. I have noticed that the bigger HF lathe looks like a stripped down Jet, too. Jet used to be a Korean company, and used to brag the had the best iron on a tool in the industry, so I wonder if the HF lathes are Jet rejects on tolerances.
Just my .02
Mike

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SirIrb

1239 posts in 694 days


#10 posted 06-05-2015 06:31 PM

Well gents, from an engineering standpoint I thought you would like to hear a story.

When I first started my design engineering apprenticeship I was working for a company that is known for their 8lb vacuum cleaner. They also owned another company that made a very well known brand. One day I went to the assembly line and watched them make the “Steemer”. I watched it all the way to the end where the hot stamped parts were put on and they were placed in their boxes.

The next day I went back and watched the same parts go together on the same line. They changed the parts that were hot stamped to show the other brand they owned. Then packaged them in a different box.

The difference? $200. Same exact product.

What does this have to do with Table Saws? I dont know. Just never be surprised.

-- Don't blame me, I voted for no one.

View JerryinCreek's profile

JerryinCreek

155 posts in 1305 days


#11 posted 06-05-2015 10:09 PM

This is what I mean, the truth is hard to find. But I’m not surprised at anything. My Dad once worked for a liquor distributor. He told me that a very well known brand name brandy sold for premium dollars, yet you could get the same product in an off brand bottle for considerably less. What a world—

-- Jerry, Johnson Creek, WI "If it was meant to be different it would be."

View SirIrb's profile

SirIrb

1239 posts in 694 days


#12 posted 06-06-2015 03:10 PM

I need brand names, good man. Brandy is wonderful. Though I just gained a taste for Bushmills.


This is what I mean, the truth is hard to find. But I m not surprised at anything. My Dad once worked for a liquor distributor. He told me that a very well known brand name brandy sold for premium dollars, yet you could get the same product in an off brand bottle for considerably less. What a world—

- JerryinCreek


-- Don't blame me, I voted for no one.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

3926 posts in 2707 days


#13 posted 06-12-2015 05:16 PM

I’m pretty certain it’s a closely guarded secret that the manufacturer doesn’t want the public to know. Their ability to make money relies on the public not knowing the facts.

View Woodbum's profile

Woodbum

732 posts in 2529 days


#14 posted 06-12-2015 08:12 PM

SirIrb: Excellent example. Bushmills and Jameson. Both are terrific Irish whiskies. Are they the same? I think not. But both are owned by Irish Distillers and share the same grain source in many cases. Irish Distillers is owned by Pernod-Ricard, a French company known for cognacs, brandies and other such drinks. They are like many other trans-global companies; very diversified. It’s a global economy, and who knows anymore who makes/owns what unless you dig for facts. This kind of throws cold water on the age old Protestant and Catholic whisky controversy, Jamesons being “Catholic” and Bushmills being “Protestant” But there are still folks who won’t drink one or the other because of their own religious affiliation. What does this have to do with tablesaws? Nothing really but just another example of the world economy and how it can all be interconnected no matter what industry that it is.

-- "Now I'm just another old guy wearing funny clothes"

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

3668 posts in 1185 days


#15 posted 06-12-2015 08:44 PM

Car manufacturers have been doing this for a very long time. Brand engineering. One GM platform might contain the same engine, transmission and suspension but have different sheetmetal and interior installed and you’ve got the same car as your neighbor but it costs $15K more. The difference with cars are albeit a little more than just a different paint color as you might see on a wood working machine, but the concept is very similar.

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