New Grizzly G0691 tablesaw -burning everything

run the saw without cutting anything ,
then see if things are still hot .
check if the blade is parallel with the miter slot ,
using the same tooth at front , then at back.
your table may be twisted slightly .
and the dumb question ,
are the teeth of your blade facing you on top ?

-- david ,new mexico ,allheart

I’m very close on the parallelism, no more than a hundredth off. Crosscuts with the miter gauge don’t exhibit the same burning. I ran it for several minutes before I ever put a blade on. The motor seems to be running fine, it’s not overheating or making any sort of unusual sound. There’s a bit more vibration than I thought there would be on a saw of this weight. The nickle falls over on start up but if you stand a nickle after start up and make a cut and turn it off the nickle stays standing. It’s on a mobile base so that could be aggravating the start up vibration. I haven’t checked arbor runout but there can’t be much. There’s no chip out or tear out on anything. Melamine and plywood edges are fine both ripping and crosscutting The only problem is the excessive burning.

there was a guy here the other day ,it turned out his blade was bent ,
check from fixed point and rotate blade completely .
another guy had a slightly bent shaft .
is the saw new , or used ?
if new you may have to get with manufacturing .
if used same thing , but their teck could help .
grizzly is good that way .
maybe you need a better blade , or to have yours sharpened .

-- david ,new mexico ,allheart

If you’re not getting burning on crosscuts too, then it’s likely the fence alignment. The Fusion has a dual side grind and very low side clearance for a highly polished edge, which can more easily lead to burning if something’s off, but if a decent 24T blade is burning 3/4” material, it’s likely that something is causing some pinching. Raising the blade a little can reduce burning but it sounds to me like you’re issue is way beyond blade height. Check the whole alignment over again. Also be sure the fence is straight on the cut side, not just aligned. Many manufacturers suggest toeing the fence out by just a couple of thousandths to ensure that it’s not toeing in. The splitter needs to be aligned well with the blade if installed. Be sure the blade is clean, and that your feed rate isn’t too slow.

Turn Your blade Around :-))

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop Southern Oregon

Blade? It didn’t come with one. Is that important? :-)

New saws need to be set up properly. It sound to be like that is your problem. I am including a link to a video that will walk you through the proper set up. It is also helpful for tuning up older saws. http://www.woodworkingtipsandtools.com/2009/02/15/table-saw-tune-up/

-- drbob at http://www.Woodworkingtipsandtools.com

Frank, when you said the parallelism was only .001 out, what were you referring to? You need the blade, miter slot, and fence to all be dead on parallel, or only .001 off. It your parallel to the slot then the miter gauge will work without burning, but it the fence is slightly off, then it will burn while ripping.

-- Julian, Park Forest, IL

The miter slot is pretty close to dead on to the blade and the fence is very close as well. I’ve worked the fence all the way through parallel from out in one direction through parallel to out in the other direction. Making small changes to the setting screw and it burns every time.

The deal is this saw is burning as badly or worse than my old Craftsman job site that I got for $200 25 years ago using the same blades. And you can see the blade wobble on that old 1hp saw. How “tuned” do you think a saw like that can be possibly be? Yet it cuts as well as this brand new 3 horse cabinet saw, and I use the term “cabinet saw” loosely I admit. At least that’s what the literature called it. It doesn’t seem to have much more power than a 1 horse, 25 year old Craftsman. I’ve been trying to convince myself that its me but from the shudder on startup to the burning it’s looking more and more like the Chinamen were having a bad day.

When aligning a saw’s rip fence, you usually check the fence at the “front” of the saw and the “back of the saw. Maybe the fence isn’t truly straight- bowed in the middle. If the fence bows towards the blade, it might cause this problem.

The fence is not flat. It’s at least a 64th out in the middle. from the ends. The arc of the very slight curve is such that I get the same distance reading at the front and back of the blade. That could explain the burning. It’s going to be a bear to shim.

Also I found the source of the startup shudder. The sector and the worm gear for blade elevation have at least an 1/8” of an inch of play. When you push the start button the motor it bounces. You can grab the motor and move it about an 1/8th, maybe more. If you wiggle it the arbor will actually drop. The worm gear will spin. You can see the hand wheel turn. This is not play at the motor mount. That is tightened down. It’s slop between worm and sector.

It seems weird to me. Is it normal to have that much slop? The same thing is evident on the tilt gears. The worm and sector are not even close to snug. Is that normal? My job site saw doesn’t have anywhere near that much movement, almost none at all. It’s like this saw is depending completely on the weight of the motor to keep the blade in place. Is that the way it is with cabinet saws?

Time to call tech support. I’ve heard they are very good a Grizzly. They’ll fix me up.

Frank – Don’t the fence face just attach with screws? I’d think a little tape in a couple of strategic places would do the trick.

Dunno about the gearing and motor mount on that saw. Hopefully the Griz Kids will fix you up.

Did you remove the shipping brace? Make sure you follow the direction of turn and put your blade on with the teeth facing the front of the saw…the side with the grizzly plaque and the height adjustment wheel.

You might want to check your voltage too – even if you tried different circuits, I would check both with an ampmeter…if the saw does not get enough amperage….it will not turn at the proper rpm’s….I had a friend that found out his 220 circuit to the garage had a short and was not delivering proper amperage. They lost a couple driers from this….and when he tried to use it for a saw he got the blade stuck in the wood he was cutting….and of course the blade was ruined from the heat.

My new G0691 did fine when I first tried it….it cut through some very hard Higuerilla without a hitch…whereas my bandsaw was having a heck of a time going through that stuff (of course the piece on the bandsaw was much thicker).

I have to agree with you on the Grizzly folks…every question/problem I have had has been handled by them quickly and completely….I hope they can keep that up as they grow in popularity (and get busier)...for now I rate them as excellent.

-- Woodworking.....My small slice of heaven!

Hey Franks
Change the height of the blade from 1/4” above the stock to 1 1/2 from top of the stock See if that works

reggiek,

Do you have slop between the worm and sector in the gears on your saw? Does the motor bounce when you turn it on?

Don’t have an amp meter but the voltage is fine. I’ll see if I can get hold of one. That would be an interesting test.

FrankS, the motor starts up very smoothly on mine…..I could do the dime test on this one I think. The only slightest amount of vibration is the blade guard (and that is from the air moving around the blade). I opened the motor door and listened in there while I started it…and the same thing – no vibration at all (the only sound is the motor fan turbines whistling).

I went in and tightened every bolt when I unpacked it and prior to doing the set up…(its part of the problem of being a perfectionist). I would be suprised if anything is loose in there…although the gear mesh is not something I can control….

I just ripped a few 2X6’s I needed to cut and the blade is only very slightly warm…so something wrong must be going on with that one you have? I think it is time to get the Grizzly folks involved.

-- Woodworking.....My small slice of heaven!

You said that parallism is no more than “a hundreth” off. “A hundreth” (0.01) is not good enough. With the types of blades you are using it needs to be within 5 thousands (0.005). Anythiing more will cause the type of burning you are experiencing.

-- Joe

To get burning and the blade teeth are facing the correct way, it’s the wood is getting pressed into the side of the blade.. If the crosscut is not doing that then that would show that the slot is parallel to the blade.

It comes down to the fence pressing the wood into the blade. I think you stated that you’ve adjusted the fence and the burning contuinues. If you tip the fence away from the blade at the back, you shold get burning on the left side of the blade. If the fence is tighter at the back then the burning should be on the right side of the blade.

Somewhere in between those two extremes should be a happy medium.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

reggiek,

Trade you saws. You’d have a lot of fun with this one. Not surprising that I’d get the lemon. Do me a favor. With the saw turned off, open the side door, grab the motor and try to push it toward the back of the saw. If there is any play between the worm gear and the teeth on the sector you will be able to move the motor. I can move mine quite a bit. Now with the door open turn on the saw and see if the motor moves at all. Mine bounces up and down and comes to rest. Because I have this slop in my trunnion gears belt tension on my saw is solely a matter of the weight of the motor.

Karson,

I’m getting burning on both sides of the blade when ripping. I haven’t crosscut much but I’m not experiencing the burning as when crosscutting.

Are you using a rip blade, Is it sharp. Push a board in about an inch and then back it out. Is it burned. How far can you push in the board before you get burning.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Franks,

Are you getting marks on the wood as well from the teeth, or just burning?

Also, how are you feeding the stock through the blade? Are you pushing the stock from both sides of the blade? I’ve found that if I push the stock on the outside toward the fence, while using a push stick along the fence I don’t get burning. Basically you have to be sure that the boards aren’t being pushed through and binding on the blade.

Another thing you can do is swing by Harbor Freight and get a magnetic base and dial indicator for about $20. I would also pick up a micrometer

Get them, and then set it up to see if there is any blade wobble and or arbor wobble. There should be none! Raise the blade as high as you can, mark several of the teeth with a sharpie and then check the distance between the front and back of the blade and the fence using the calipers, using the same tooth on the front and back. They should all be extremely close, 0.005 or less! The closer, they better your cuts will be.

If you the wood is burning on the both sides, something is either out of alignment or the stock is getting bound up by the way you are feeding it through.

Let us know what you figure out!

-- If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem. Roanoke, VA

Franks,

The play that you are experiencing on the worm and pinion can be adjusted, you should read your manual since different saws accomplish this in different maners.

Let’s hope you can iron out all your wrinkles, keep us posted on any progress os other questions

Franks,

The play that you are experiencing on the worm and pinion can be adjusted, you should read your manual since different saws accomplish this in different maners.

Let’s hope you can iron out all your wrinkles, keep us posted on any progress os other questions.

By the way I downloaded the manual for your saw and verified that the adjustement settings for the worm to gear play is done via 2 screws located right behind the turning wheels the blade height is done by losening the 2 screws and adjusting the position of the shaft. By going down you efectively raise the worm to the gear.
Do not make it to tight, nicely lubricated this mechanism should glide silky smooth. The tilt adjustment is the same only the direction of travel is side to side.

Have fun

Jerry,

I noticed those screws some time ago. The exploded diagram indicated they did nothing but hold on plates. I tried them anyway figuring that must be it but no, that’s all they do. The shafts ride in sleeves pressed into the cast iron and there’s no adjustment. The slop is either intentional or I have the wrong worm gear. I’ve asked reggiek to see if he can move the motor on his. He has no vibration and no problems on his saw. If he also has play then I guess it’s not slop but a design feature.

Still sounds like the blade is on facing the wrong direction. Only other thing I can think of is that the saw is wired backwards and is turning the wrong direction.

I think it’d be worth your while to try to get the fence face shimmed straight. A bow in the middle could cause pinching from the back of the blade during the first part of the cut, and pinching from the front of the blade at the exit as the board pivots on the hump of the fence…which could cause some burning. That doesn’t explain the lash your experiencing but it should be easy enough to do and should only help the situation. Just to eliminate other causes, be sure the blade is clean too.

I have experienced burning and bogging down when ripping. Being inexperienced I ddn’t have a clue what was causing it as previously I had no problems. My first “fix” was to clean the blade with Simple Green, and it worked! Thinking back, I had cut some treated pine on the saw and sap had attached itself, so just cleaning the blade solved the problem.
Hope this simple answer will help.

-- Roger, Rep. of Texas

I would get with Grizzly on your problems. I don’t own any of their stuff my self , but my cousin bought their 24” band saw and had some issues with it. After a quick call to them he had a new wheel,tires and blade on the way, free of charge. He said their tech folks were great and the new wheel fixed the problem.

-- Scott, South Carolina

Thanks for all the feedback and ideas. I’ve tried most of them and still get the burning. I suppose I was looking for a silver bullet and found that there really isn’t one. There are just so many issues that have piled up that it’s getting ridiculous. Here’s list so far.

1. There was a bit of rust on the top when I unpacked it. It was small, I scrubbed it off. Tried to forget about it; unsuccessfully. I’m probably not the lone ranger here but it’s annoying.
2. One of the hand wheels had rust on it right out of the box. Again, cosmetic but annoying.
3. The belts are not the same length. There are three and they each have a different tension. They appear to have set so long in the same position that they were warped. You can’t spin the blade freely, it pulls back on you, wants to go back to a “home” position. Annoying when you are trying to tune. Why did they have the belts on in the box? That’s nuts. They had a shipping brace to support the motor. Put the belts in a bag. Also makes me wonder how old this saw is; How long was it sitting in a warehouse?
4. There were metal filings in the gears. I poked my finger on one while cleaning off the packing gunk. It actually bleed. Weird. Laceration incident, should I sue?
5. Tremendous amount of slop in the blade height gear. The blade will lift up about 1/4”. Don’t know if its a real problem but it’s awfully funky.
6. Same kind of slop on the tilt gear.
7. The saw shudders on startup and the nickel falls over. It’s because the motor actually jumps. The nickel will stand while the motor is running but you can still feel the vibration. It’s hard to take pride in something you know what I mean?
8. The blade actually falls a tiny bit while you’re cutting. This has to be a problem on non-through cuts.
9. The fence is not straight and has a twist in it. I suppose that can be shimmed. Oh goody, that will be fun.
10. The glide pad on one side of the fence is canted so the back of the fence moves about 1/2” to the left as you tighten the handle. Makes it very difficult to set the fence accurately.
11. The holes for set screws that adjust fence squareness are not square with the flange, both set screws are canted as you thread them in. And they are canted in different directions, like they were drilled by a drunk with a hand drill.
13. The the fence is welded incorrectly. To get the face of the fence sort of perpendicular I have the top set screw on the right all the way in and the fence is canted on the rail. It’s a cosmetic problem and it may have functional ramifications. Again, very hard to take pride in something that’s visibly so goofy.
14. Metal parts on the extension table were loose in the box. The threads had been stripped. Not a big deal but annoying.
15. I’ve never seen iron like this. It rusts while you look at it. Far more corrosion developing much faster than the cast iron on my Craftsman bandsaw and Ridgid jointer.
16. The stock insert is not flat. Not a big deal but narrow rips will catch on the back. There’s nothing I can do about it because the first 3/4 of the thing is flat. If I raise the back the middle is too high. I’ll be using a zero clearance most of the time but I need this for beveled cuts.

There’s more but I’m out of breath and I have a few things to do. I’m going to get a dial indicator with table saw jigs, an amp meter and a full kerf ripping blade. The only blade I have now that I can use with this riving knife is the Frued combo. Got to get the ducks lined up.

On the plus side the paint job is very nice, it’s a very attractive looking piece of equipment. I think it looks as good as a SawStop PCS. That’s just cosmetic but it does mean something. More importantly the table is flat which is very big deal. The best thing about it is the blade guard and riving knife. The quick release works with the insert in place. In my opinion only the new Unisaw is better than this and then only minimally. And miracle of miracles I didn’t need to adjust the riving knife at all. For the first time in my life I feel comfortable making a fairly narrow rip from a fairly narrow piece with the blade guard on. That’s a big deal to me. And for what it’s worth, if this fence had any sort of quality control it would be the finest OEM fence on the market. Of course the one that came with my saw is a piece of junk.

The reason I have this saw is because my Ridgid R4511 granite top was recalled. I’m having good luck aren’t I? I paid $452 for the Ridgid back in April. Best table saw value in the history of the world. Ridgid was going to deliver a replacement to me free of charge. But being the genius I am I decided to take this opportunity to go ahead and get a 220v saw. I figured sooner or later I would outgrow the 1 1/2 horse saw. So I told Ridgid no thanks, I’ll just take my money back. They cheerfully complied and came to my house and picked up the saw. The Ridgid was everything you could want in a budget 1 1/2 hp saw. True riving knife, cabinet mounted trunnion, beautiful flat granite top. Poly V belt. Oversize hand wheels, not chrome but very functional. Coincidentally it had a bit of a shudder on startup, nowhere near as bad as this Grizzly. The nickel would fall over about half the time on startup but it was silky smooth after startup. You couldn’t tell it was running. Again far better than this Grizzly. I made a nice looking beech zero clearance insert for it. Really popped the look of the top. Still and all, it was underpowered and that’s where the rubber meets the road. Plus the fence wasn’t the greatest. It was a t-square fence but a little weak. Of course, it was flat and it was perpendicular to the top and parallel to the blade. I borrowed a dial indicator to test arbor runout and there was essentially none. The needle simply did not move. But I figured that if I had to assemble and tune another table saw I might as well make it my last. What a dope. I laid down $700 more for a trip through table saw hell.

I must have been dreaming to think I could get a quality cabinet saw for $1300. No Virginia, there is no Santa Clause. Now that the whole picture is clear we’ll see what Grizzly has to say tomorrow. In all fairness this rant can’t be considered a review, got to give Grizzly a chance. I won’t bother the lads in tech support on Labor Day. It’s not their fault they got an unluckiest customer on the planet. Someone should have warned them that I was coming.

frank ,
just send your last message to grizzly and call them ,
ask for a replacement saw !
they should be happy to do this , if you bought it new from them .
let them send a new one ,
and take back the old one .
you deserve better !
all of the grizly tools i got are great !
and their teck guys are nice .

-- david ,new mexico ,allheart

Frank, I agree with Patron…I checked my saw and there is none of the play or slop you encounter. The motor does not move on start up…on mine the bearings and gears are flush and I can’t jiggle the motor at all..I think you must have received a bad one. Grizzly will replace it quickly and without a fuss from what I have seen from them.

Oh, I had to add this. I emailed their customer support on an issue and they got back to me within that day with a fix. You might do this to get them going before you call – and they may answer you sooner then you think. I will continue to do business with them as long as they keep up the excellent service I received. And don’t dismay….the saw I received is excellent…and you will get there too…I am sure of it.

I had a tiny bit of rust on the table and a little bit on the extension tables…(their stuff sits in WA state before shipping…and it is very wet up there)....but that did not bother me that much….I scrubbed it off…and put a rust inhibitor on it…viola! no more rust. I had more rust on my jet lathe when I first received it then anything on the Grizzly. Considering how much cosmetic bumps and chips…etc…that the tools will get during their lifetime…Also, this way the tool has its first flaw and I don’t have to worry about the next ding…(like buying a new car…A friend of mine used to ding his under the rear bumper with a puch or some small tool…he said that way he quit worrying about the door nicks and hood nicks – go figure).

-- Woodworking.....My small slice of heaven!

I agree with Patron. Grizzly should pickup your saw and send you a new one.

-- Only the Shadow knows....................

You know, Ridgid is replacing the arbor assemblies free of charge on that granite top saw, and I believe they are sending out someone to do the repair for you!

If you felt it is underpowered and you have 220, you could have just rewired the motor to run on 220 and either had your blades sharpened or gotten new ones. True, it would still have a 1 1/2hp motor, but you will have the same voltage drop as running 110. Percentage wise, you get more power to the motor running 220. It made a difference on my saw!

I’ve got the Ridgid TS3650 cast iron table saw and LOVE IT! I have small shop so I need something easily movable. When I have to cut hard woods that are thicker than 1 1/2 inches, I just slow down the feed rate and let the saw do the work without forcing the workpiece.

Anyway, best of luck to you!

-- If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem. Roanoke, VA

FrankS- Sent you a PM on this but Patron is right. You send this list of complaints, which is a bummer, but it can happen, and they should get you a new unit to replace it.

Ryan,

They couldn’t find a service center that would come fix mine on site so they offered to replace. Your results by rewiring are interesting. The consensus I was seeing on the R4511 threads on the Ridgid forum was that it wouldn’t make much difference in cutting power and the only reason to do it was to cut down on the amps that would be pulled in case that might be a problem if there was a dust collector running or something. You’re making me feel worse, I have a 220 outlet in the ceiling just above. Oh well.

I don’t mean to make you feel bad!

My setup may be a bit different… I’m only about 15 feet from the sub breaker panel, and the transformer is on the pole I get my power from. I actually measure 242 volts at my saw. That could make a difference for me. Hey, if I had the room, I’d love to upgrade to a more professional grade cabinet saw.

I do agree with everyone, Grizzly will make good on the saw. Sounds like you go a lemon!

-- If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem. Roanoke, VA

Hang in there Frank. Your Griz will be up and running properly soon enough. It’s really in a different league than your hybrid was….no worries about the upgrade. I loved my 22124 hybrid, but it’s simply not in the same class as a 3hp industrial cabinet saw. Once you iron out the bugs with this one, you’ll be set for life with that saw.

BTW – A gain in performance from switching to 220v usually indicates that the 110v circuit was sub-par. I noticed faster startups and faster recovery from bogging when I switched, but the difference when I switched to 3hp is far more noticeable!

I don’t mean to make you feel bad!

My setup may be a bit different… I’m only about 15 feet from the sub breaker panel, and the transformer is on the pole I get my power from. I actually measure 242 volts at my saw. That could make a difference for me. Hey, if I had the room, I’d love to upgrade to a more professional grade cabinet saw.

I do agree with everyone, Grizzly will make good on the saw. Sounds like you got a lemon!

-- If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem. Roanoke, VA

Very true about the 110 circuit. It was basically what came installed in the house, and shared power with the rest of the basement. Now that I think about it, I usually ran my shop vac and the saw on the same circuit. I changed to 220 at the same time as I hooked up a dust collection system…

-- If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem. Roanoke, VA

I have seen all sorts of good ideas in this thread, but no one has asked the simplest question. How old is the blade you are using. Regardless of how nice the blade is, if its dull and dirty it will burn stock on even the the most finely tuned saw.

-- http://www.efcabineture.com/ You can be tired, or you can be broke, but you should never be tired and broke.

The blade is not old. It’s sharp and clean. I had it in my little miter saw which is dedicated to cabinet parts and it was delivering beautiful cross cuts right up until I pulled it out. I cleaned it very well before putting it on the Grizzly. And I scrubbed the entire blade, not just the teeth. Even the gullets. Even so this is not the best combo for ripping, as Scott pointed out earlier in the thread. But it’s the only full kerf blade I have. I’m going to get a full kerf ripping blade tomorrow.

I’ve been trying different blade heights and feed rates and I shimmed the fence so it’s straighter. It’s a tiny bit wavy now but overall it’s straighter. It would be some chore to get it right. But in putting some of the advice I’ve gotten to work I’m getting better results.

But it’s still got the shakes. I found that if I raise the blade all the way up until the sector teeth bind on the worm the start up shudder is almost removed and a nickel will stay standing most of the time. At any other height it’s pretty bad. It’s a little disturbing to watch startup with the door open. That big motor bounces up and down and everything in there gets rattled quite a bit. “I dunna know how much more of this she can take Captain.”

It definitely sounds like something’s amiss. In addition to call or sending a note to Grizzly, you might even consider sending them a video clip of the shake you just described. Get a name of a tech and offer to email the video to them directly.

Called Grizzly and sent an email. A don’t think the poor tech support guy has ever encountered anyone like me. He didn’t say so but I take it he’s ever heard of a saw being in this bad a shape right out of the box. He escalated and said they’d be back in touch soon. I don’t think Grizzly’s ever had a customer with my luck. Well they’ve got me now. That’s what comes from taking orders over the phone from anyone with a valid credit card. It’s like a blind date except it’s more like a blind marriage.

Frank we are going to rename you “Smoke”. Just kidding, but once you get this resolved and this saw or replacement working, you should surely chronicle a blog starting with your R4511 adventures and then to Grizzly!!
Would make an entertaining read for everyone including you, once its all fixed up and you are a happy camper.

I know its a hassle now, but from everything I’ve read about Grizzly, they should take care of the problem for you.

Well just hear back from Grizzly. They say that the slop between the worm and the sector and the shudder on startup is something I’m going to have to live with. They will replace the fence the insert and the belts.

What do you gentlemen think? I’ll certainly never be completely happy with this saw but I guess that’s the way the cookie crumbles. Of course, if this is the way it stands Grizzly is going to get flamed pretty badly in the forums by yours truly.

I am not familiar with their triple belt system Frank, but if your belts were different lengths it would seem they would contribute to vibration, and replacing them may solve a host of problems with the motor jumping, the slop and the shudder.
I run some powerful 3 phase blowers at our plant, that are on 3 belts, and if the tension is not right and the pulleys not aligned pretty close the belts movement will cause a lot of vibration.

I hope that is the case, or rather that getting new belts will solve all but the fence issue, which you say they are going to replace.

Where did you buy the saw from?

-- If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem. Roanoke, VA

The belts could make a world of difference. I’m trying to figure out if belt tension alone can pull the gears together. If so then I’ve got no problem. The looseness in the tilt seems to be a pretty small matter and shouldn’t affect preformance.

Here’s a question. Griz sells those link belts, the red ones. Are they better? Maybe I can twist the tech guys arm a little and get them to send me three of those. That could be just the ticket.

I’m sick of putting saws together. I want to get this one fixed right where it sits. It’s a very nice looking piece of equipment and in theory should be plenty good enough for the likes of me. I’ll even replace the whole trunnion. But after messing with it some more this afternoon I’m determined. The bounce has got to go, one way or another.

Ryan,

I bought it directly from Grizzly. I’m sure they’ll help me get this thing ironed out. I want to be a happy customer.

Frank you got good suggests so far.

-- CJIII Future cabinetmaker

Belt slippage on start up could cause the motor and other stuff to jump around.

Think positive – I’ll bet you’ll be hitting on all cylinders real soon!

-- Joe

You indicated that you had burning on both sides of the piece. Sounds like a blade issue to me. You also indicated that you were going to get a different ripping blade. Did you ever try the new blade? Does it also burn the wood?

-- CutNRun - So much wood, so many trails, so little time

Well, another gentleman from Grizzly called. He’s concerned that there may be a bigger problem with the trunnion than the gears. A crack perhaps. They have seen that happen when pallets are dropped by the shipping people. No outside damage to the packaging but trouble inside. He confirmed that the play should not be there. He want’s me to pull the top off and check it out. He didn’t say so but I don’t think he wants me using it until I can confirm there aren’t any obvious cracks.

He said they’d be happy to replace it. Here we go again. But at least the are concerned about making it right me.

take a new saw , that way someone there has to be aware of it completely ,
not just pass the issue on to the ” shipper guys ” or the ” pallet people ” or whoever ,
if some bigger guy is aware of a problem , let them resolve it .
not only will you have a perfect saw , you will be a good spokesperson for the quality of their service .
otherwise send this whole post to them , and let them see that you are not alone , and that there are
other serious customers here , waiting to see what they do !

-- david ,new mexico ,allheart

I agree with Patron, so far my experience with Grizzly has been very very good….They have come forward on every item and very expeditiously…I now have 3 of their big items in my shop – G0691 TS, G0654 Planner and G0531B Bandsaw..and that would not be so if I was not happy with their equipment or their support….so far I am extremely happy with all of them…

But you as a customer should not have to diagnose a problem with their product (if they ask for a visual or to confirm some action on the machine thats fine). You should receive a new saw in working condition without any wobble or problems…you did not buy a used, blemished, or rebuilt item….if it doesn’t work out of the box…they need to get you one that does…period….”Living with the Problem” is NOT an option unless you buy an item marked as is. My saw did not and does not wobble…nor does it burn the wood…once you confirmed it was not the blade or some external problem then it is up to Grizzly to make good. Keep us up on your progress…I think all of us are concerned that a company needs to provide a quality product with good service…if not…we will all vote with our checkbooks.

My guess is that this will resolve with you receiving a new saw from them and another bit of compensation for the inconvenience….that is how I have seen them respond in the past.

The last problem I had with them, I counted 8 emails from different departments all answering my questions and offering various bits of information and support….they usually overwhelm you with responses.

-- Woodworking.....My small slice of heaven!

Here’s the latest. They are replacing the saw. They are sending me a shipping voucher, I will contact the local carrier and schedule pickup. Meanwhile they are assembling and testing a new saw and will ship it to me. They are covering all shipping costs.

From where we are now Grizzly is doing the right thing for me. I’ve spent quite a bit of time on the saw but except for the original unpacking it was all time spend between other things and at night. I’ll get over it when the new one arrives. They haven’t mentioned any other “bit of compensation” but I do like the sound of that. And I do have an idea. Maybe they could replace the stock belts with those link belts? That would be a nice touch, I may mention that to them.

I was just cruising by during a break and saw your post. Excellent!...so far half of my guess is right. I would ask for the belt “upgrade” it is not that much and certainly should be done for the inconvenience you have been through….and you have helped them to diagnose a problem that may or may not occur again….also it goes towards good will….really you shouldn’t have to ask…but do…

-- Woodworking.....My small slice of heaven!

I would recommend checking with a belt supplier or at least Grizzly on whether the linked belts are appropriate for a multi-belt application. In our heavy equipment applications the belts are either matched sets of v-belts or a power band (multiple v-belts with a common wide backing). I don’t know how you would maintain a common belt length and tension with the linked belts.

-- CutNRun - So much wood, so many trails, so little time

Be interesting to hear what they say about link belts. I always thought that link belts aren’t applicable to mulitbelt saws because each belt in the set might not be precisely the same as the others. Wouldn’t that prevent all 3 belts from sharing the load?

-- Joe

New latest.

The Grizzly techs all over the place have been looking at G0690’s and 91’s at several facilities. You can move the motor in all of them. There is play. At the blade movement is averaging out a 0.1 inches. The engineers say that the force of the inertia and the weight of the motor serve to keep the blade in place despite this play.

To test this I just went and made a number of non-through cuts of different depths on European beech and white oak and low and behold the trench is a consistent depth. There is no blade lift at all. . And I mean no blade lift, not even 1/100th of an inch.

But what other 91’s don’t have is the bouncing on startup. They think it’s the belts on mine. So here’s the deal, we’re going to try the link belts. The link belts can be used on this saw and should be better than stock belts. We’re going to see if that eliminates the jumping around of the motor. They are sending me three belts to try.

I’m happy to try this, it’s better than a replacement. I’m sick of assembling table saws so if we can fix this one up that’s a better solution for me. The table is flat, I’d rather just keep this one.

The fact that they are willing to replace it if we can’t straighten it out is good enough for me.

I thought new link belts would actually be more consistent in length and tension, with each link being the same and assuming you use the exact # of links. And the brochure I saw has it shown on multi-belt pulleys too.

If you get it it’d be a nice bonus, it cost me $40 to fit my tablesaw with one belt. You buy it by length and chain it to any size loop you want. 3 belts would be well over $100 if you had to buy it seperately

-- Ed

I was coming from the standpoint of tolerance build up due to multiple links chained together. Obviously it’s not a problem based on Ed’s experience and Grizzley’s willingness to provide same

-- Joe

Don’t know about anyone else, but I’m on the edge of my seat!

Edit: Seriously (didn’t want anyone to think that was a sarcastic snark)

Frank, Glad to hear that progress is being made. At least now you are pretty much in the cat bird’s seat and that is good.

I know what you mean by wanting to get the one on your floor running properly if possible, because it at least is a known, and like you say the assembly gets old after the first time.

Wish you well and either way you will have a good working saw soon, so good deal.

I’m prolly late on this but try setting the rip fence to the left side of the blade. if the fence is bent this should end the burning. if this is the case you need a replacement fence.

skeez

-- hey honey! watch this!

Frank
Sorry to hear your having this trouble. I cam across this forum last night and it bugged me. You see I bought the G)691 and have had it almost a couple of weeks. It set up with no problems. I have it sitting on a Shop Fox heavy duty mobile base and extention (1300 lb) set up. I have only made a couple of cuts with it (been working long hours)but after reading your hell novel, when I got home I tried to move the motor, didn’t budge. Next I made about 15 or so cuts on some 3/4” oak plywood and some solid 3/4” oak boards. It cut with no problems, no burning saw shuttering etc. I felt the blade and was just warm. I felt relieved but I really feel bad for you. I know Grizzly will make it right and if not I behind what reggiek said, we will vote with our checkbooks. I will keep checking back here to see what the outcome is, hopefully they will give you a new saw. GOOD LUCK

Thanks mgb!

Here’s the deal on the moving motor. If I lean over and put one hand on the motor and shove hard I get nothing. If a stoop down and put both hands on the motor and grunt I can move it. I weigh 285.

Grizzly is working hard to get it right. As of noon today we were talking about an exchange and they’d cover everything. That was great but I’d still have to get this one out and the new one in. Later this afternoon I spoke with them and we decided to try new belts. They are sending me three of those link belts. The belts I have jump all over the place on startup. I can’t get them tensioned correctly because they have stretched unequally. It could very well be, as some have stated in replies here, that the belts are the problem with the shudder and the nickel falling over.

They began testing the G0690’s/91’s they have at their sites across the US and they found that the ones they have on hand all have some play. They average out at about a 10th of an inch of movement at the arbor. I may have a bit more, maybe 0.125. The engineers say that this play is not a problem. They say that the weight of the saw and the angular momentum of the blade will keep the arbor locked down in cuts so play or slop in the gears of this nature is irrelevant.

To test it I made a number of non-through cuts in European beech and white oak with my combination blade. The depth of the trenches varied no more than a few thousandths across their length. Easily within the tolerance of the flatness of the boards. So there is no lift during cutting with full kerf blades.

Another test I ran was to set a board right over the blade slot and raise the blade so it was right up to the bottom of the board. I held the board in place with a push block right over the blade and turned on the motor. Remember, this is on startup where my motor is bouncing about twice before it settles down. I tried it several times and there were only the slightest scratches on the board. The blade is not rising much on startup and none during a cut. The engineers are right. But I still have the shimmy and the nickel still falls down on startup. We’ll see if the belts help.

Haven’t tried the dado stack yet. I’ll do that tomorrow.

As far as burning goes I’m doing better there. I shimmed my fence a little to get it straighter. Actually I just loosened the screws and put some little wood chips behind the plastic and that got it flatter. The fence has other problems of course and a new one is on the way to me I believe. Anyway, that and some of the advice I got from other replies here has helped. The Freud Fusion blade I’m using is only marginally a combo blade It’s not a great ripping blade, the teeth have almost flat sides and don’t stick out much past the blade body which has micro coating. It polishes the heck out of anything you cut, almost like a dedicated crosscut blade with 60 or 80 teeth. Crosscuts are just plain shiny. And it’s only a small jump from shiny to burned. Anyway I raised that blade all the way up and tuned my feed rate and got cuts through 3/4 and 4/4 with out burns. Almost got through some of the 8/4 QS oak but that still burns. One thing to note. On all the sheet goods I’ve cut I get very clean edges, no chip out, even crosscutting hardwood ply.

How do you like the extension? I got the same mobile base but not the extension. I was thinking of building something with drawers or shelves that would attach to the mobile base under the saw and have casters out at the end where the legs are. There’s space under there. All space has to be used. Where did you put the swivel casters, under the door or the dust chute?

Welcome to the wonderful world of Grizzly. They have some of the nicest customer service and tech people. I had the pleasure of dealing with them when I purchased a lathe. After more than a year, a boat load of replacement parts, and countless hours I finally solved my frustration. I purchsed a Jet.

You can read my review here: http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/624

-- My favorite piece is my last one, my best piece is my next one.

Trifern, I remember your review..(which was very enlightening by the way) and I almost bought the top line Grizzly unit before I read it….but since I like turning…and do alot of it…I squeezed out the extra money and bought the PM 3520B. I have, to date, never regretted my purchase even though this lathe is quite pricey. I had a used stubby which was an excellent lathe…the problem I had was getting parts (from Australia) and the fact that the lathe was ancient and not being made anymore (the new ones start at $5000.00 way out of my budget as a hobbyist). I also have a jet midi that I use for spindles (since PM is expensive for additions and to expand the jet was neglligable).

I think Grizzly does not spend alot of resources on the division that does the lathes…at least that is what I have heard…(there is too much competition I believe and their machines are more for the casual user) so I would not recommend them for such. They are very good at other machinery (which is build for commercial use)...TS, BS, Planer, Jointers….I have one of each but the Jointer and have not had any reason to complain about them. As we all know, there will always be a lemon…and every manufacturer has one…What we all are interested in is the response that you get from the company when you inform them of such. I do not fault a manufacture for one problem machine…but if it is continuous (replicable)...and their response is as bad (for example Laguna) I will not consider them for any future purchase I will make.

-- Woodworking.....My small slice of heaven!

Frank
Glad to hear things are progressing. About the base, I put the swivel casters under the motor cover door. I had to modify the long rails on the base and the long rail from the base to the extention. I used my Rotozip which made it pretty fast and easy. I was also looking at putting a drawer under the extention table. I’ve seen pictures of the unisaw and that got me thinking about it. I don’t believe it would be that difficult. Anyways keep us posted on what’s be resolved about your saw.

Here’s the latest from the front. The new belts made an big difference. There is much less vibration, and only on the slightest jiggle of the motor on startup, no bouncing. The nickel doesn’t even shake all the way from power up through a cut and power down. If these belts had been on from the beginning I wouldn’t have started this thread.

Bought a ripping blade. The Freud 30 tooth Glue line and it does cuts everything I’ve tested with no burning. 8/4 white oak was a piece of cake. A noticable difference between this saw and the 1 1/2 hp Ridgid. The Ridgid didn’t go through the 8/4 as easily using a good quality Freud 24 tooth thin kerf ripping blade.

Crosscutting with the 40 tooth Fusion is a dream. The end grain will need no further work, ready to stain. That blade is really not a ripping blade.

I’m a happy camper. Almost there, still need a new fence and standard insert. But I’m told that is on the way. And that’s not stopping me from working. It really hasn’t been a problem, I’ve taken this time to go ahead and install piping for dust collection. Tired of tripping over hoses.

Good deal Frank. Glad to hear things are coming together. Were the original belts a grooved poly V like the Rigdid uses? I had heard you could not use the link belts on a grooved pulley system.

The original belts were old fashioned v belts, like fan belts. That shouldn’t have been a problem at the beginning because those belts have been used successfully for generations. And the ones others got on this very model were fine. But the ones I got were a mess.

You can use link belts on grooved pulleys. And you can use them on multi-belt setups. In fact the picture on the cardboard sleeve that Power Twist belts come in shows a three belt configuration. And it’s working for me.

Wow! What a great thread.
In another browser window, I have an order for a G0691, I am ready to click “Proceed to checkout”, then I thought I should do one last bit of research and found this thread.
If Grizzly is listening to “LumberJocks” (or reading), this place has a great deal of power to influence a purchase. I am now on the fence, and will wait to do more due diligence.
I currently have a $99.00 “Home Depot special” table saw. I do all my work, ripping and crosscutting, dado’s and the like, on a 1953 DeWalt RAS that has been in the family for 50 years. The Home Depot toy is for rips wider than 18’. You would be surprised on how few rips are greater that 18’.
I have the space, a good 220 outlet, and not a lot of money ($1,400.00 max).

Now the point of this post: Do I buy a G0691?

-- Integrity is who we are when no one else is watching.

Well you came to the right person. I’ve been round and round on this saw and here’s the short answer to your question.

Yes.

If there are problems, and there may well be, Grizzly will make it right. I’m sitting on an RMA right now. If I want I can send it back for a replacement. But I’m not going to. The addition of the link belts did the trick. This thing is extremely smooth now. The nickel doesn’t even jiggle. It just stands there like you haven’t even turned the saw on. And power transmission is much better. The thing sounds different now. I don’t think the blade was coming up to full RPMs before with those messed up stock belts. The motor doesn’t bounce anymore either everything is nice and smooth. I put a 30 tooth Freud glue line ripping blade and it ate up quarter sawn 8/4 white oak with ease. No burning at all and a beautiful cut. The slop in the gears is a non-issue. The blade doesn’t move a bit, neither on startup nor in a cut.

I’m waiting on a replacement fence but I’m not held up. I can cut. It just takes a little extra to line up the fence because one of the little glide pads is screwy.

So, I got the worst one they ever sent out and still I like it and still I recommend it.

Kudos to Grizzley!!!They are now back at the top of my list for a new saw when I am ready!!! And thanks to you Frank for keeping us advised.

-- With each new day, celebrate life. Love God with all of your heart. Share Jesus with those around you and make a positive impact on those you meet. Bob

I’m getting a Grizzley. Nothing better than great customer service.

-- Robert M. Herring

To: FrankS;
Thanks for the quick response. Convinced. I’ll pull the trigger this weekend, then post a pic.

Thanks again for bringing us all along on your Grizzly adventures. I hope I don’t start one of my own.

Wes

-- Integrity is who we are when no one else is watching.

It’s been fun. But the title of the thread is no longer appropriate. Now it’s burning nothing. Oh well, you can’t judge a book by it’s cover.

glad you got some resolve ,
now let’s get to work !

and thanks grizzly ,
for standing up .

-- david ,new mexico ,allheart

Hey Frank
Glad everything worked out. It had to be hard going through it but it seemed you handled it in a very composed manner. Probably Grizzly’s customer service helped you along. I know from my own experience with them, they have always came through.
Again, glad everthing worked out for you.

Hey FrankS,

I just read this entire thread (mini novel really). I’m glad things worked out for you.

I have never ordered from Grizzly but I will now. Customer service is very important to me.

Thanks for posting and hope you have many years of happy cutting with that saw.

;;
J

-- Professional kitchen designer, amature woodworker.