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85K views 272 replies 68 participants last post by  crowie 
#1 ·
Drum Sander Tip

Just recently I managed to buy a second hand drum sander.
The sander is CARBA TEC badged but looks like a Jet 16 -32 Knockoff, as it certainly does not have the height of the current models.

Electrical wiring Gas Tableware Door Machine


I gave it a bit of a beating when I first bought it and sanded just about everything in sight one day, mainly to familiarise my self with its capabilities of what it can and cannot do.

In the process I managed to break a belt and clog some of the others with resin and wood.
The grits I had removed ranged from 60G 80G 120g and 240G from memory.

As these belts amounted to a significant purchase I was not prepared to just throw them away.

I later found out some information from degoose as to where to buy replacement Belts.

Well I have had the machine for about 3 months now and find that I have spent possibly more than the original purchase price on consumables and have about seven belts removed from the machine for clogging or being broken. They were incrementally cleaned whilst in use with belt rejuvenator but it did not fully remove the clogging

The place I got the belts from is The sandpaper Man at Manly West.
I was at the Sandpaper Man"s premises last week talking sandpaper as one would do at a sandpaper shop, when the topic of rejuvenation of the belts came up.

I found out as all the belts I have were polyester cloth there was no reason why I could not soak them in water or the likes to remove the clogging and scrub them with a brush or even use a pressure cleaner on them.

As I had all those items available I thought I would give it a go.

So first up into a bucket of water with some detergent added they went for an overnight soak.

Automotive tire Tire Wood Motor vehicle Cup


I then hung them up on the gate,
This is a top view of belt No 1

Wood Shade Tints and shades Glass Metal


This is a bottom view of belt no 1

Wood Wall Material property Tints and shades Trunk


and introduced the pressure cleaner to them.
The results being,

Wood Tints and shades Hardwood Composite material Wood stain

This is the second belt before cleaning.

I continued and pressure cleaned all the belts

Wood Tints and shades Natural material Liquid Pattern


This is the third belt before cleaning.

Wood Paint Wood stain Floor Wall


this is the third belt cleaned and forth belt ready for cleaning,
Note whatever the black contaminant was, it not all completely removed.

Wood Paint Tints and shades Metal Human leg

Belts 2, 3 and 4.

I worked my way through cleaning them all and obtained the following results

Wood Rectangle Wood stain Tints and shades Gas


and belts 1, 5, 6 and 7.

Font Gas Tints and shades Publication Rectangle


The Pressure cleaner removed almost all of the contamination from every belt including the broken one, of which I will cut up and use else where.

After they were dry I checked them again just in case the water had masked the contamination but all were good.

Conclusion:

Belt Rejuvenation:
No doubt belt rejuvenation whilst the belt is in use is important to prolong its useful life, drum sanders work hard moving material and need adequate dust extraction and cleaning when in use,
Contaminants:
Drum Sanders don't like sanding contaminants like paint and resins if they are grits around 80+ and will clog quickly.
So if there are traces of paint or resin up the grit abrasive range (You can get a 32 Grit) or use another method to prepare the timber.
External Cleaning:
External Cleaning does not restore the surface grit it simply removes contaminants, so if its worn out its now cleaner and worn out!

Enjoy
 

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#2 ·
Drum Sander Tip

Just recently I managed to buy a second hand drum sander.
The sander is CARBA TEC badged but looks like a Jet 16 -32 Knockoff, as it certainly does not have the height of the current models.

Electrical wiring Gas Tableware Door Machine


I gave it a bit of a beating when I first bought it and sanded just about everything in sight one day, mainly to familiarise my self with its capabilities of what it can and cannot do.

In the process I managed to break a belt and clog some of the others with resin and wood.
The grits I had removed ranged from 60G 80G 120g and 240G from memory.

As these belts amounted to a significant purchase I was not prepared to just throw them away.

I later found out some information from degoose as to where to buy replacement Belts.

Well I have had the machine for about 3 months now and find that I have spent possibly more than the original purchase price on consumables and have about seven belts removed from the machine for clogging or being broken. They were incrementally cleaned whilst in use with belt rejuvenator but it did not fully remove the clogging

The place I got the belts from is The sandpaper Man at Manly West.
I was at the Sandpaper Man"s premises last week talking sandpaper as one would do at a sandpaper shop, when the topic of rejuvenation of the belts came up.

I found out as all the belts I have were polyester cloth there was no reason why I could not soak them in water or the likes to remove the clogging and scrub them with a brush or even use a pressure cleaner on them.

As I had all those items available I thought I would give it a go.

So first up into a bucket of water with some detergent added they went for an overnight soak.

Automotive tire Tire Wood Motor vehicle Cup


I then hung them up on the gate,
This is a top view of belt No 1

Wood Shade Tints and shades Glass Metal


This is a bottom view of belt no 1

Wood Wall Material property Tints and shades Trunk


and introduced the pressure cleaner to them.
The results being,

Wood Tints and shades Hardwood Composite material Wood stain

This is the second belt before cleaning.

I continued and pressure cleaned all the belts

Wood Tints and shades Natural material Liquid Pattern


This is the third belt before cleaning.

Wood Paint Wood stain Floor Wall


this is the third belt cleaned and forth belt ready for cleaning,
Note whatever the black contaminant was, it not all completely removed.

Wood Paint Tints and shades Metal Human leg

Belts 2, 3 and 4.

I worked my way through cleaning them all and obtained the following results

Wood Rectangle Wood stain Tints and shades Gas


and belts 1, 5, 6 and 7.

Font Gas Tints and shades Publication Rectangle


The Pressure cleaner removed almost all of the contamination from every belt including the broken one, of which I will cut up and use else where.

After they were dry I checked them again just in case the water had masked the contamination but all were good.

Conclusion:

Belt Rejuvenation:
No doubt belt rejuvenation whilst the belt is in use is important to prolong its useful life, drum sanders work hard moving material and need adequate dust extraction and cleaning when in use,
Contaminants:
Drum Sanders don't like sanding contaminants like paint and resins if they are grits around 80+ and will clog quickly.
So if there are traces of paint or resin up the grit abrasive range (You can get a 32 Grit) or use another method to prepare the timber.
External Cleaning:
External Cleaning does not restore the surface grit it simply removes contaminants, so if its worn out its now cleaner and worn out!

Enjoy
Your belts are clogging up because your taking too much at one time. Try running your boards through the same thickness setting 3-5 times. I know it seems crazy, but, your sander will like it much better
 

Attachments

#3 ·
Drum Sander Tip

Just recently I managed to buy a second hand drum sander.
The sander is CARBA TEC badged but looks like a Jet 16 -32 Knockoff, as it certainly does not have the height of the current models.

Electrical wiring Gas Tableware Door Machine


I gave it a bit of a beating when I first bought it and sanded just about everything in sight one day, mainly to familiarise my self with its capabilities of what it can and cannot do.

In the process I managed to break a belt and clog some of the others with resin and wood.
The grits I had removed ranged from 60G 80G 120g and 240G from memory.

As these belts amounted to a significant purchase I was not prepared to just throw them away.

I later found out some information from degoose as to where to buy replacement Belts.

Well I have had the machine for about 3 months now and find that I have spent possibly more than the original purchase price on consumables and have about seven belts removed from the machine for clogging or being broken. They were incrementally cleaned whilst in use with belt rejuvenator but it did not fully remove the clogging

The place I got the belts from is The sandpaper Man at Manly West.
I was at the Sandpaper Man"s premises last week talking sandpaper as one would do at a sandpaper shop, when the topic of rejuvenation of the belts came up.

I found out as all the belts I have were polyester cloth there was no reason why I could not soak them in water or the likes to remove the clogging and scrub them with a brush or even use a pressure cleaner on them.

As I had all those items available I thought I would give it a go.

So first up into a bucket of water with some detergent added they went for an overnight soak.

Automotive tire Tire Wood Motor vehicle Cup


I then hung them up on the gate,
This is a top view of belt No 1

Wood Shade Tints and shades Glass Metal


This is a bottom view of belt no 1

Wood Wall Material property Tints and shades Trunk


and introduced the pressure cleaner to them.
The results being,

Wood Tints and shades Hardwood Composite material Wood stain

This is the second belt before cleaning.

I continued and pressure cleaned all the belts

Wood Tints and shades Natural material Liquid Pattern


This is the third belt before cleaning.

Wood Paint Wood stain Floor Wall


this is the third belt cleaned and forth belt ready for cleaning,
Note whatever the black contaminant was, it not all completely removed.

Wood Paint Tints and shades Metal Human leg

Belts 2, 3 and 4.

I worked my way through cleaning them all and obtained the following results

Wood Rectangle Wood stain Tints and shades Gas


and belts 1, 5, 6 and 7.

Font Gas Tints and shades Publication Rectangle


The Pressure cleaner removed almost all of the contamination from every belt including the broken one, of which I will cut up and use else where.

After they were dry I checked them again just in case the water had masked the contamination but all were good.

Conclusion:

Belt Rejuvenation:
No doubt belt rejuvenation whilst the belt is in use is important to prolong its useful life, drum sanders work hard moving material and need adequate dust extraction and cleaning when in use,
Contaminants:
Drum Sanders don't like sanding contaminants like paint and resins if they are grits around 80+ and will clog quickly.
So if there are traces of paint or resin up the grit abrasive range (You can get a 32 Grit) or use another method to prepare the timber.
External Cleaning:
External Cleaning does not restore the surface grit it simply removes contaminants, so if its worn out its now cleaner and worn out!

Enjoy
Thanks Roger
OK sound like a good Post tip to add, I can only agree with your comment.
 

Attachments

#4 ·
Drum Sander Tip

Just recently I managed to buy a second hand drum sander.
The sander is CARBA TEC badged but looks like a Jet 16 -32 Knockoff, as it certainly does not have the height of the current models.

Electrical wiring Gas Tableware Door Machine


I gave it a bit of a beating when I first bought it and sanded just about everything in sight one day, mainly to familiarise my self with its capabilities of what it can and cannot do.

In the process I managed to break a belt and clog some of the others with resin and wood.
The grits I had removed ranged from 60G 80G 120g and 240G from memory.

As these belts amounted to a significant purchase I was not prepared to just throw them away.

I later found out some information from degoose as to where to buy replacement Belts.

Well I have had the machine for about 3 months now and find that I have spent possibly more than the original purchase price on consumables and have about seven belts removed from the machine for clogging or being broken. They were incrementally cleaned whilst in use with belt rejuvenator but it did not fully remove the clogging

The place I got the belts from is The sandpaper Man at Manly West.
I was at the Sandpaper Man"s premises last week talking sandpaper as one would do at a sandpaper shop, when the topic of rejuvenation of the belts came up.

I found out as all the belts I have were polyester cloth there was no reason why I could not soak them in water or the likes to remove the clogging and scrub them with a brush or even use a pressure cleaner on them.

As I had all those items available I thought I would give it a go.

So first up into a bucket of water with some detergent added they went for an overnight soak.

Automotive tire Tire Wood Motor vehicle Cup


I then hung them up on the gate,
This is a top view of belt No 1

Wood Shade Tints and shades Glass Metal


This is a bottom view of belt no 1

Wood Wall Material property Tints and shades Trunk


and introduced the pressure cleaner to them.
The results being,

Wood Tints and shades Hardwood Composite material Wood stain

This is the second belt before cleaning.

I continued and pressure cleaned all the belts

Wood Tints and shades Natural material Liquid Pattern


This is the third belt before cleaning.

Wood Paint Wood stain Floor Wall


this is the third belt cleaned and forth belt ready for cleaning,
Note whatever the black contaminant was, it not all completely removed.

Wood Paint Tints and shades Metal Human leg

Belts 2, 3 and 4.

I worked my way through cleaning them all and obtained the following results

Wood Rectangle Wood stain Tints and shades Gas


and belts 1, 5, 6 and 7.

Font Gas Tints and shades Publication Rectangle


The Pressure cleaner removed almost all of the contamination from every belt including the broken one, of which I will cut up and use else where.

After they were dry I checked them again just in case the water had masked the contamination but all were good.

Conclusion:

Belt Rejuvenation:
No doubt belt rejuvenation whilst the belt is in use is important to prolong its useful life, drum sanders work hard moving material and need adequate dust extraction and cleaning when in use,
Contaminants:
Drum Sanders don't like sanding contaminants like paint and resins if they are grits around 80+ and will clog quickly.
So if there are traces of paint or resin up the grit abrasive range (You can get a 32 Grit) or use another method to prepare the timber.
External Cleaning:
External Cleaning does not restore the surface grit it simply removes contaminants, so if its worn out its now cleaner and worn out!

Enjoy
I soak mine overnight in undiluted Simple Green and the spray with pressure nozzle. Works as you describe. And I reuse the Simple Green many times.

"Poor folks have poor ways!"
 

Attachments

#5 ·
Reverse Glue Joint work 1 Aug 2013

I have a couple of Reverse glue Joint bits for my router and one cutter for my shaper.
I don't use them very much, and as I had some left over timber from my Slope Tray work, I decided to give them a run.
Or at least the shaper cutter.

The timber had been jointed previously so there was not a lot of preparation required.
Shop bought finished timber would be the same, rough sawn would require jointing prior to use.
The Reviews I read on using a Glue Joint Bit has a mixed opinion as to their usefulness and the process required to set them up.

So why would you use them in the first place? as there are T&G joints, Biscuit Joints and their various commercial counterparts, and lastly there is also a simple butt joint which work fine any way.

Reported advantages are:-

50% increase in glue surface area.
That's got to be good both for the reliability of the joint and the glue supplier!

Self alignment when assembled.
Definitely a bonus when clamping multiple pieces together.

One cutter/bit does both joints.
This is correct and makes cutting a one cutter process, no different to a slotting cutter though.

Some Disadvantages I found were.

1. The cutter required using test blocks to setup to get precise fit-up.
2. You need a shaper or a table mounted router with fences, and so set up of the fences is then required.
Now depending if you need an excuse to buy the equipment this could be a plus or a minus!
3. There is a loss of width from 5mm to 10mm min depending if you do two cuts or just the one on the outer sides or ends. No different to T & G cutters.

The General set up View

Hood Automotive lighting Automotive tire Liquid Wood


A bit hard to see anything but there it is.

Setting the height
This is where the center of the cutter is aligned vertically so its dead center of the timber to be cut.
Thus can be done by eye as after the first test cut there may be an adjustment required anyway.

Ignore the lack of precision as I was holding the phone camera and the rule as well.

Hood Wood Fluid Wood stain Automotive tire


Test Blocks

Cutting some test blocks

There are a couple of methods you can use to cut set blocks.

Method 1.

Cut the test "A" piece face up and the "B" piece face down. Turn the "B" piece right side up and fit them together to see how even the pieces are at the joint.
If the "B" piece is low, raise the bit one-half of the difference between the boards. If the "B" piece is highest, lower the bit one-half of the difference. Repeat the test cuts and adjust as necessary until the faces of the two boards are flush when fit together.

Method 2.

Cut a section of test material long enough to cut off 1 end. Mark the off cut B and the remainder A
Invert B and mate it to A check the alignment and adjust to suit. If a re cut is required cut off A and start again.

Don't forget, the material for the test blocks does not have to be your expensive project material.
The only requirement is that is that the Test Block material must be the exact thickness of the project material.

Wood Gas Tints and shades Rectangle Flooring


Checking the alignment.
As everything was good to go the timber was profiled. If not minor adjustments are now required and new test blocks as well, as you cannot re use them over the previous profile.

Wood Door Composite material Rectangle Flooring


Preparing the timber for clamping.
Here we go all in a row.

Wood Flooring Floor Hardwood Gas


In the clamps
I used 2 x simple sash clamps and a couple of F clamps

Wood Automotive tire Grey Road surface Floor


At Glue up.
You may not need any vertical clamps but I was not taking any chances with bowing.
Take a note of the raggedy ends, this is where I cut the piece from showing the cut off edge

Wood Flooring Automotive tire Composite material Hardwood


inspection of the joint from a cut off edge
A very tight fit I thought. Most satisfactory

Table Wood Flooring Floor Gas


Prepare to lose some width
The loss in width comes from the 5mm profile cut in the timber, and dependent upon setup can be deeper, add this to both sides/edges to be glued and a overall loss of 10mm min is revealed

Automotive tire Handwriting Road surface Asphalt Wood


Other types of cutters.

These are two other bits I have the left one is capable of cutting material from about 12mm up to 40mm.
I am not sure what the bearing is for as it would be outside the edge of the timber when in use.
Its possibly for doing joints at 90 degrees.

The one on the right is a router shank bit and works exactly the same as the shaper mounted bit

Gas Composite material Cylinder Plastic Carmine


Conclusion:

Depending on how much emphasis on the joint strength is placed its not necessarily a "Must have" cutter, but certainly ensures correct alignment at glue up, and is capable of producing an excellent joint.
 

Attachments

#6 ·
Reverse Glue Joint work 1 Aug 2013

I have a couple of Reverse glue Joint bits for my router and one cutter for my shaper.
I don't use them very much, and as I had some left over timber from my Slope Tray work, I decided to give them a run.
Or at least the shaper cutter.

The timber had been jointed previously so there was not a lot of preparation required.
Shop bought finished timber would be the same, rough sawn would require jointing prior to use.
The Reviews I read on using a Glue Joint Bit has a mixed opinion as to their usefulness and the process required to set them up.

So why would you use them in the first place? as there are T&G joints, Biscuit Joints and their various commercial counterparts, and lastly there is also a simple butt joint which work fine any way.

Reported advantages are:-

50% increase in glue surface area.
That's got to be good both for the reliability of the joint and the glue supplier!

Self alignment when assembled.
Definitely a bonus when clamping multiple pieces together.

One cutter/bit does both joints.
This is correct and makes cutting a one cutter process, no different to a slotting cutter though.

Some Disadvantages I found were.

1. The cutter required using test blocks to setup to get precise fit-up.
2. You need a shaper or a table mounted router with fences, and so set up of the fences is then required.
Now depending if you need an excuse to buy the equipment this could be a plus or a minus!
3. There is a loss of width from 5mm to 10mm min depending if you do two cuts or just the one on the outer sides or ends. No different to T & G cutters.

The General set up View

Hood Automotive lighting Automotive tire Liquid Wood


A bit hard to see anything but there it is.

Setting the height
This is where the center of the cutter is aligned vertically so its dead center of the timber to be cut.
Thus can be done by eye as after the first test cut there may be an adjustment required anyway.

Ignore the lack of precision as I was holding the phone camera and the rule as well.

Hood Wood Fluid Wood stain Automotive tire


Test Blocks

Cutting some test blocks

There are a couple of methods you can use to cut set blocks.

Method 1.

Cut the test "A" piece face up and the "B" piece face down. Turn the "B" piece right side up and fit them together to see how even the pieces are at the joint.
If the "B" piece is low, raise the bit one-half of the difference between the boards. If the "B" piece is highest, lower the bit one-half of the difference. Repeat the test cuts and adjust as necessary until the faces of the two boards are flush when fit together.

Method 2.

Cut a section of test material long enough to cut off 1 end. Mark the off cut B and the remainder A
Invert B and mate it to A check the alignment and adjust to suit. If a re cut is required cut off A and start again.

Don't forget, the material for the test blocks does not have to be your expensive project material.
The only requirement is that is that the Test Block material must be the exact thickness of the project material.

Wood Gas Tints and shades Rectangle Flooring


Checking the alignment.
As everything was good to go the timber was profiled. If not minor adjustments are now required and new test blocks as well, as you cannot re use them over the previous profile.

Wood Door Composite material Rectangle Flooring


Preparing the timber for clamping.
Here we go all in a row.

Wood Flooring Floor Hardwood Gas


In the clamps
I used 2 x simple sash clamps and a couple of F clamps

Wood Automotive tire Grey Road surface Floor


At Glue up.
You may not need any vertical clamps but I was not taking any chances with bowing.
Take a note of the raggedy ends, this is where I cut the piece from showing the cut off edge

Wood Flooring Automotive tire Composite material Hardwood


inspection of the joint from a cut off edge
A very tight fit I thought. Most satisfactory

Table Wood Flooring Floor Gas


Prepare to lose some width
The loss in width comes from the 5mm profile cut in the timber, and dependent upon setup can be deeper, add this to both sides/edges to be glued and a overall loss of 10mm min is revealed

Automotive tire Handwriting Road surface Asphalt Wood


Other types of cutters.

These are two other bits I have the left one is capable of cutting material from about 12mm up to 40mm.
I am not sure what the bearing is for as it would be outside the edge of the timber when in use.
Its possibly for doing joints at 90 degrees.

The one on the right is a router shank bit and works exactly the same as the shaper mounted bit

Gas Composite material Cylinder Plastic Carmine


Conclusion:

Depending on how much emphasis on the joint strength is placed its not necessarily a "Must have" cutter, but certainly ensures correct alignment at glue up, and is capable of producing an excellent joint.
I have an older Craftsman (King-Seeley) shaper with one of these joint cutters, and I think I just learned that cutter's purpose and how to set it up properly. Thanks, Robert!!
 

Attachments

#7 ·
Reverse Glue joint at 90 deg Aug 2013

Before dismantling my shaper I decided to do some more 90 degree reverse glue joint work.

I had some timber needing attention so I set it up again using method 2, cut the set up blocks from the single piece of timber.

From the initial eyball setup I made another two adjustments and it was again a perfect fit.

So bring on the 90 deg joint.

Keeping in mind I was just using the shaper cutter and not a bearing mounted bit this is the result I got.

Picture 1.

This is the test cut after alignment, some where in there is a reverse glue joint cut, the precision is impressive.

Wood Road surface Rectangle Asphalt Floor


Picture 2

This is the same test cut looking from the other end, the cut is just visible this time.
Wood Road surface Asphalt Composite material Flooring


Picture 3.

Here is another shot, same as picture 1 but with the joint deliberately off set to see the actual mating surfaces.

Note:

A point to note here on the vertical section there is a small rebate, this is due to using a shaper bit and not setting the fence at zero. Other wise this is where the bearing mounted cutter earns its bread.

Wood Road surface Asphalt Rectangle Flooring


Having a reasonable result with the 90 Degree I decided to go another step and try a 45 Degree joint.

Now the 45 Degree cutting was a breeze, simply a matter of clamping the material to the tee slide and passing it through.
However because the cutter has a high side and a low side although the joint worked perfectly again, using it this way resulted in a miss match in the material on the opposite sides of the inner 45 degree joint.

This in my mind was unacceptable so I binned the test cut.

I then examined a T&G cutter and upon checking the profiles the only difference between the two is that the T&G cutter has two parallel profiles either side of the tongue and groove cutter section, where as the reverse glue joint has an offset cutter surfaces either side of the T&G section.

This makes the T&G cutter suitable for 45 degree joints as opposed to the reverse glue joint cutter.

Conclusion:

Using the reverse glue joint on edges be it at zero or 90 degree works well, and if you are using it table mounted you can set the fence so there is zero timber removal when doing the face, otherwise that's why there is a bearing fitted to the bit
 

Attachments

#8 ·
Reverse Glue joint at 90 deg Aug 2013

Before dismantling my shaper I decided to do some more 90 degree reverse glue joint work.

I had some timber needing attention so I set it up again using method 2, cut the set up blocks from the single piece of timber.

From the initial eyball setup I made another two adjustments and it was again a perfect fit.

So bring on the 90 deg joint.

Keeping in mind I was just using the shaper cutter and not a bearing mounted bit this is the result I got.

Picture 1.

This is the test cut after alignment, some where in there is a reverse glue joint cut, the precision is impressive.

Wood Road surface Rectangle Asphalt Floor


Picture 2

This is the same test cut looking from the other end, the cut is just visible this time.
Wood Road surface Asphalt Composite material Flooring


Picture 3.

Here is another shot, same as picture 1 but with the joint deliberately off set to see the actual mating surfaces.

Note:

A point to note here on the vertical section there is a small rebate, this is due to using a shaper bit and not setting the fence at zero. Other wise this is where the bearing mounted cutter earns its bread.

Wood Road surface Asphalt Rectangle Flooring


Having a reasonable result with the 90 Degree I decided to go another step and try a 45 Degree joint.

Now the 45 Degree cutting was a breeze, simply a matter of clamping the material to the tee slide and passing it through.
However because the cutter has a high side and a low side although the joint worked perfectly again, using it this way resulted in a miss match in the material on the opposite sides of the inner 45 degree joint.

This in my mind was unacceptable so I binned the test cut.

I then examined a T&G cutter and upon checking the profiles the only difference between the two is that the T&G cutter has two parallel profiles either side of the tongue and groove cutter section, where as the reverse glue joint has an offset cutter surfaces either side of the T&G section.

This makes the T&G cutter suitable for 45 degree joints as opposed to the reverse glue joint cutter.

Conclusion:

Using the reverse glue joint on edges be it at zero or 90 degree works well, and if you are using it table mounted you can set the fence so there is zero timber removal when doing the face, otherwise that's why there is a bearing fitted to the bit
Enjoying this series.
 

Attachments

#9 ·
Painters Tape Test Sample

If you read my project post "Aurora's Lunch Caddy" you may have picked up on the weeping Black Dye problem I encountered.
Well MarkwithaK responded and directed me to an other product FROGTAPE.

So I checked it out on the net, not only did I find the tape I also saw some chevron tape as well both of which I would be interested to "Test Out"

I found Masters (an Ozzie version of Lowes) stock the product so I hopped off to purchase some.
Well sure enough there it was,
Green multi-surface "FROGTAPE" what a strange colour!
along with some,
Yellow Delicate Surface FROGTAPE, an even stranger colour!, tape as well but no chevron tape (boo hiss)

Any way after reading up on the product I see its designed specifically for latex paint and the green is mediun adhesion and the yellow low adhesion.

I purchased both and frogged it back home.

I set up a test block of ply the same as I used on the caddy.

Keeping in mind the Black dye is mineral based, this was my test setup

a piece of ply
1 x wad/pad
1 x bristle brush
1 x strip of my existing Blue painters tape 3M 2093 (Reported to be for mineral based paint)
1 x strip of my existing Green painters tape Shurtape CP150 ( reported to be suitable for all paints lacquers and varnishes)
Automotive tire Hood Bumper Cloud Automotive exterior

I applied the tape and used the pad to apply the dye
The pad test section is the horizontal section
Removed the tape and it was almost perfect! what could have gone wrong?

So I retaped the ply and used the bristle brush, removed the tape and there was the bleeding again.

The brush test section is the two squares.

Here is a close up shot
Rectangle Azure Textile Art Font


Flipping the ply over I applied the Green FROGTAPE and repeated the process.
The left section is the pad and the right the brush

Wood Font Handwriting Adhesive Wood stain


Conclusion:

Trying to dye timber with a high contrast mineral based dye and expecting a delineated line is pushing the envelope.
From my tests it can be done with a pad but do not expect the same results with a brush.

I will do some more checking for a better painters tape specifically for mineral based paint.
I expect there will be a product somewhere but as for tape suitable for dye I would have say, "Your Dreaming"

Solution:

Dye the material before fit up.

Enjoy. or have a good laugh !!
 

Attachments

#10 ·
Painters Tape Test Sample

If you read my project post "Aurora's Lunch Caddy" you may have picked up on the weeping Black Dye problem I encountered.
Well MarkwithaK responded and directed me to an other product FROGTAPE.

So I checked it out on the net, not only did I find the tape I also saw some chevron tape as well both of which I would be interested to "Test Out"

I found Masters (an Ozzie version of Lowes) stock the product so I hopped off to purchase some.
Well sure enough there it was,
Green multi-surface "FROGTAPE" what a strange colour!
along with some,
Yellow Delicate Surface FROGTAPE, an even stranger colour!, tape as well but no chevron tape (boo hiss)

Any way after reading up on the product I see its designed specifically for latex paint and the green is mediun adhesion and the yellow low adhesion.

I purchased both and frogged it back home.

I set up a test block of ply the same as I used on the caddy.

Keeping in mind the Black dye is mineral based, this was my test setup

a piece of ply
1 x wad/pad
1 x bristle brush
1 x strip of my existing Blue painters tape 3M 2093 (Reported to be for mineral based paint)
1 x strip of my existing Green painters tape Shurtape CP150 ( reported to be suitable for all paints lacquers and varnishes)
Automotive tire Hood Bumper Cloud Automotive exterior

I applied the tape and used the pad to apply the dye
The pad test section is the horizontal section
Removed the tape and it was almost perfect! what could have gone wrong?

So I retaped the ply and used the bristle brush, removed the tape and there was the bleeding again.

The brush test section is the two squares.

Here is a close up shot
Rectangle Azure Textile Art Font


Flipping the ply over I applied the Green FROGTAPE and repeated the process.
The left section is the pad and the right the brush

Wood Font Handwriting Adhesive Wood stain


Conclusion:

Trying to dye timber with a high contrast mineral based dye and expecting a delineated line is pushing the envelope.
From my tests it can be done with a pad but do not expect the same results with a brush.

I will do some more checking for a better painters tape specifically for mineral based paint.
I expect there will be a product somewhere but as for tape suitable for dye I would have say, "Your Dreaming"

Solution:

Dye the material before fit up.

Enjoy. or have a good laugh !!
I did some art panel a while ago that had a similar problem . I ended up sealing the surface with sanding sealer than taping it up and spraying on the stain from a distance. The result was crisp lines I'm sure classicly trained wood finishers will cringe but I got the effect I wanted.
 

Attachments

#15 ·
Painters Tape Test No 2

I conducted a second test with wood dye after reading a post by badcrayon suggesting using Sanding Sealer to assist in masking the dye area.

Here are the results I obtained.

Picture No 1: The product used and the test Sample

Handwriting Font Gas Rectangle Circle


Picture No 2: Sanding sealer applied below the first tape

Rectangle Sleeve Handwriting Grey Wood


Picture No 3: The first tape relocated to the top of the sealer edge

Rectangle Road surface Asphalt Wood Beige


Picture No 4: A second tape applied to bare timber above the test area.

Rectangle Road surface Wood Beige Tints and shades


Picture No 5: The dye applied with a pad/wad.

Door mat Wood Rectangle Gas Flooring


Picture No 6: The results with both tapes removed from the test area.

Azure Rectangle Handwriting Textile Wood


Conclusion:

Looks like the application of sanding sealer in conjunction with Painters Tape is effective in preventing weeping and produces a far better result than any painters tape used on its own from the stocks I have used.
 

Attachments

#16 ·
Painters Tape Test No 2

I conducted a second test with wood dye after reading a post by badcrayon suggesting using Sanding Sealer to assist in masking the dye area.

Here are the results I obtained.

Picture No 1: The product used and the test Sample

Handwriting Font Gas Rectangle Circle


Picture No 2: Sanding sealer applied below the first tape

Rectangle Sleeve Handwriting Grey Wood


Picture No 3: The first tape relocated to the top of the sealer edge

Rectangle Road surface Asphalt Wood Beige


Picture No 4: A second tape applied to bare timber above the test area.

Rectangle Road surface Wood Beige Tints and shades


Picture No 5: The dye applied with a pad/wad.

Door mat Wood Rectangle Gas Flooring


Picture No 6: The results with both tapes removed from the test area.

Azure Rectangle Handwriting Textile Wood


Conclusion:

Looks like the application of sanding sealer in conjunction with Painters Tape is effective in preventing weeping and produces a far better result than any painters tape used on its own from the stocks I have used.
If you were to introduce a small groove an incision actually on the line it effectively stops the intrusion of dye to the unwanted area. I used this method on the Woodwhisper rocking horse build with great success.
Wood Hardwood Carmine Tree Wood stain
 

Attachments

#20 ·
Dye and Painters Tape Test No 3 and final

OK I have conducted yet another test using a suggestion by Jumbojack to score the edge of the timber before dying to contain the dye.

He (I assume Jumbojack is male otherwise apologies on the gender slipup) has added a comment and photos supporting his method on the previous Tool tip # 5 worth and well worth further investigation.

So here we go (and this is the last in the Dye Painters Tape series)

I set up another test sample, I needed to delineated the area so I drew a semi circle on two areas to be tested, this is purely for the ability to see where the score section is.

Picture No 1 The test area set out

Wood Rectangle Gesture Flooring Wood stain


I again used black dye the worst case test, for timber dye.

After drawing in the two test areas I used my hobby knife set to score the line into the pencil arc.
As I haven't used my Hobby knives for some time this was a bit tricky for me but I managed it without too much difficulty.

Picture No 2 The right hand semi circle scored

Wood Gesture Rectangle Wood stain Nail


I then used a brush, again a worst case process for applying the dye to each test ares.
I started at the left and finished on the right hand side.

Picture No 3 The final results.


Wood Material property Gas Font Chemical compound


Conclusion:

There is no doubt scoring the timber works and limits the penetration of the dye.

Care must be taken to ensure there is only a minimal amount of dye on the brush otherwise weeping will occur which is avoidable if practice runs on test areas are conducted.

Enjoy ….I am off the fire up the BBQ for a snack!!
 

Attachments

#21 ·
Dye and Painters Tape Test No 3 and final

OK I have conducted yet another test using a suggestion by Jumbojack to score the edge of the timber before dying to contain the dye.

He (I assume Jumbojack is male otherwise apologies on the gender slipup) has added a comment and photos supporting his method on the previous Tool tip # 5 worth and well worth further investigation.

So here we go (and this is the last in the Dye Painters Tape series)

I set up another test sample, I needed to delineated the area so I drew a semi circle on two areas to be tested, this is purely for the ability to see where the score section is.

Picture No 1 The test area set out

Wood Rectangle Gesture Flooring Wood stain


I again used black dye the worst case test, for timber dye.

After drawing in the two test areas I used my hobby knife set to score the line into the pencil arc.
As I haven't used my Hobby knives for some time this was a bit tricky for me but I managed it without too much difficulty.

Picture No 2 The right hand semi circle scored

Wood Gesture Rectangle Wood stain Nail


I then used a brush, again a worst case process for applying the dye to each test ares.
I started at the left and finished on the right hand side.

Picture No 3 The final results.


Wood Material property Gas Font Chemical compound


Conclusion:

There is no doubt scoring the timber works and limits the penetration of the dye.

Care must be taken to ensure there is only a minimal amount of dye on the brush otherwise weeping will occur which is avoidable if practice runs on test areas are conducted.

Enjoy ….I am off the fire up the BBQ for a snack!!
what was the snack? Cocktail weenies?
 

Attachments

#26 ·
Check out these monsters

Round Over bits 2, 2.5 and 3" ebay $14 to $16 free delivery, (takes a while) but worth the wait.

Awaiting delivery of the 3"
However here is a test run of the 2.5 in action

Picture 1, Tool set up Guards and etc removed as per the usual. I needed to do a glue up the get the size of 64mm approx.
Wood Table Gas Wood stain Hardwood


Picture 2. Work in progress.
Automotive tire Table Bumper Automotive design Wood


Picture 3. Trimmed and finished
Wood Wood stain Musical instrument accessory Hardwood Musical instrument


Picture 4. A close up of the symmetry.
Artifact Wood Pottery Art Sculpture


Picture 5. ebay details showing the item, the costs, delivery and the supplier
Font Screenshot Rectangle Web page Paper


A good purchase I thought hence the share.
Beats paying $50 upwards! durability well we shall see.
Resharpening costs,...why would you bother!
 

Attachments

#27 ·
Check out these monsters

Round Over bits 2, 2.5 and 3" ebay $14 to $16 free delivery, (takes a while) but worth the wait.

Awaiting delivery of the 3"
However here is a test run of the 2.5 in action

Picture 1, Tool set up Guards and etc removed as per the usual. I needed to do a glue up the get the size of 64mm approx.
Wood Table Gas Wood stain Hardwood


Picture 2. Work in progress.
Automotive tire Table Bumper Automotive design Wood


Picture 3. Trimmed and finished
Wood Wood stain Musical instrument accessory Hardwood Musical instrument


Picture 4. A close up of the symmetry.
Artifact Wood Pottery Art Sculpture


Picture 5. ebay details showing the item, the costs, delivery and the supplier
Font Screenshot Rectangle Web page Paper


A good purchase I thought hence the share.
Beats paying $50 upwards! durability well we shall see.
Resharpening costs,...why would you bother!
a good deal there robert

i have had from 1/16r to 1 1/2r for years
you are right about the sharpening
or even the quality
most don't get used but for a few minuets
every year or so

the ones i do use most
(1/8r - 1/4r)
i replace as they wear out

unless you are going to use them in a production setting
why spend hundreds on them
 

Attachments

#29 ·
Plastic spring hand Clamps

These clamps are in just about every shop, and are useful for all sorts of applications.

I was making some veneer inlay strips and decided to use them to clamp the work whilst the glue dried.

Well to my surprise they began snapping in various areas.

Hand tool Tool Wood Nipper Metalworking hand tool


The failures ranged from the tip right back to the pivot point, very odd to say the least.

As I had finished work for the day and I was about to bin them when I decided to dismantle them and make two sets from four.

Well that was a interesting exercise in wasting time I tell you.
I don't know how they were assembled in the first instance but the spring is so strong it is almost impossible to reassemble them, any way I tried but was not able to get them back together safely so in the bin they went.

Why did they break in the first place, I cannot identify one single cause apart from plastic fatigue.
Maybe the UV may have weakened them who knows.

They are almost a consumable item cost wise so I was not too concerned.

I also had a plastic F Clamp break as well some time ago just goes to show the plastic used does not stand up to the force capable of being applied to them in normal use.
 

Attachments

#30 ·
Plastic spring hand Clamps

These clamps are in just about every shop, and are useful for all sorts of applications.

I was making some veneer inlay strips and decided to use them to clamp the work whilst the glue dried.

Well to my surprise they began snapping in various areas.

Hand tool Tool Wood Nipper Metalworking hand tool


The failures ranged from the tip right back to the pivot point, very odd to say the least.

As I had finished work for the day and I was about to bin them when I decided to dismantle them and make two sets from four.

Well that was a interesting exercise in wasting time I tell you.
I don't know how they were assembled in the first instance but the spring is so strong it is almost impossible to reassemble them, any way I tried but was not able to get them back together safely so in the bin they went.

Why did they break in the first place, I cannot identify one single cause apart from plastic fatigue.
Maybe the UV may have weakened them who knows.

They are almost a consumable item cost wise so I was not too concerned.

I also had a plastic F Clamp break as well some time ago just goes to show the plastic used does not stand up to the force capable of being applied to them in normal use.
Consumable indeed… lots of these cheap tools are of limited use… and in time need to be binned…
 

Attachments

#38 ·
Cleaning large Dust Extractors

I have been working in Sydney with my boys doing electrical work at schools whilst the holidays are on.
One of the tasks was to repair restore broken switches and emergency stops in the wood working shop.

We then had to service the Outdoor Dust Collector/Extractor. (just the job for an electrician!)

Good thing I have an interest in wood working ! otherwise it would have been a "No Way reply!

My son and I accepted the task and away we went.

We opened the side access panels of the unit and removed one of the Pocket Filter Cassettes
Wood Building Gas Stool Facade

We then removed the pocket filter frame and withdrew the mesh inserts.
Rectangle Wood Mesh Composite material Gas

Opened the pocket filters up like a big book and vacuumed them.

Table Wood Plant Composite material Flooring


All very messy and lots of work.
Window Wood Flooring Composite material Gas


This led me to ask if we were doing the correct maintenance on these type of equipment.

Small home units no worries empty the bin and shake out the filter bag and reassemble.

However bigger industrial ones were a different matter, The units are very heavy requiring two men to remove the filter Cassettes/modules.

The work definitely needs an open area to work in as it creates massive amount of wood dust in the process.

We dismantled the pockets Frame and mesh separators first up, but later worked out this was unnecessary and they could be laid sideways and vacuumed on the table intact.

After blocking the shop vac a couple of times I used a dust pan and brush to pre clean the pockets, I was removing a pan full of dust from a single side each time.

Does anybody have experience in the correct maintenance procedure for these type DCs?

I looked on the net for service manual or maintenance instruction but there was none found, so I decided to approach the Brains Trust at LJs !!
 

Attachments

#39 ·
Cleaning large Dust Extractors

I have been working in Sydney with my boys doing electrical work at schools whilst the holidays are on.
One of the tasks was to repair restore broken switches and emergency stops in the wood working shop.

We then had to service the Outdoor Dust Collector/Extractor. (just the job for an electrician!)

Good thing I have an interest in wood working ! otherwise it would have been a "No Way reply!

My son and I accepted the task and away we went.

We opened the side access panels of the unit and removed one of the Pocket Filter Cassettes
Wood Building Gas Stool Facade

We then removed the pocket filter frame and withdrew the mesh inserts.
Rectangle Wood Mesh Composite material Gas

Opened the pocket filters up like a big book and vacuumed them.

Table Wood Plant Composite material Flooring


All very messy and lots of work.
Window Wood Flooring Composite material Gas


This led me to ask if we were doing the correct maintenance on these type of equipment.

Small home units no worries empty the bin and shake out the filter bag and reassemble.

However bigger industrial ones were a different matter, The units are very heavy requiring two men to remove the filter Cassettes/modules.

The work definitely needs an open area to work in as it creates massive amount of wood dust in the process.

We dismantled the pockets Frame and mesh separators first up, but later worked out this was unnecessary and they could be laid sideways and vacuumed on the table intact.

After blocking the shop vac a couple of times I used a dust pan and brush to pre clean the pockets, I was removing a pan full of dust from a single side each time.

Does anybody have experience in the correct maintenance procedure for these type DCs?

I looked on the net for service manual or maintenance instruction but there was none found, so I decided to approach the Brains Trust at LJs !!
My bet is you will find the recommend practice is to remove and replace the entire filter cassette assemblies.
They look similar to the "bag" filters we change in hospital air handling units on a regular basis but not as often as the pre-filters.
I'm sure your method will also produce and acceptable outcome.
 

Attachments

#40 ·
Inlay onlay with the Inlay Kit

This blog is based on using the Inlay Kit of which has been the subject of many reviews so I will not be going into any detailed description of the kit here, just its application a littile out of its intended design.

I was cleaning up and found a short piece of Camphor Laurel timber with a knot hole in it, pretty usless I thought and was going to dump it.

I didnt have much to do this day so put it on the table saw. It was there I noticed it had a massive twist in it also rendering it almost certainly rubbish.

I thought I would see if I could remove the twist as an experiment, no loss iif it didnt work it was off to the bin anyway..

First up I cut off the worst part of the twist and ran the remainder through the table saw to return it to parallel.

Wood Rectangle Hardwood Gas Wood stain


Not content with that result I decided to cut the twisted section down and make a medalion to cover the knot hole.

I made a template jig to match the medalion,and then centered it over the knot hole.

Wood Hardwood Wood stain Plywood Lumber


Next I used the Inlay kit to route out the base material
Here is the setup with the collar fitted.

Fluid Gas Composite material Natural material Circle


If you have one of these kits and wonder where the sipral bit is, well it broke early in the piece when I let the trimmer chatter. A replacement bit was more them a complete kit, so I sourced alternatives, bought four for the price of one.

Be aware they are very easy to break.

Here is the base material routed out

Window Building Wood Gas Tints and shades


With that done I replaced the medalion in the jig removed the collar and routed the medalion.

Water Liquid Fluid Sink Plumbing fixture


Applied a 45 deg chamfer applied some glue and fitted it up.

View No 1
Triangle Wood Rectangle Tints and shades Font

View No 2
Wood Rectangle Beige Flooring Tints and shades

View no 3
Brown Rectangle Wood Flooring Wood stain


I was so impressed with the result I did another one just to see if i had fluked it.
Wood Rectangle Floor Wall Wood stain

View No 4
Wood Table Rectangle Tints and shades Wood stain


After a sand.
Rectangle Wood Gadget Hardwood Wood stain

And after a coat of Orange Oil
Rectangle Wood Wood stain Hardwood Cutting board


A fitting annotation.
Brown Wood Rectangle Wood stain Hardwood


Conclusion: The Inlay Kit can be used to do medalion work quite sucessfully.
Just ensure you orient the timber grain to 90 deg from the base or any angle to suit I guess!

Use: Well it will go back on the shelf and reappear as a box top possibly, I liked the double diamond pattern , I guess because it reminded me of our MZ Force badge.

enjoy.
 

Attachments

#41 ·
Inlay onlay with the Inlay Kit

This blog is based on using the Inlay Kit of which has been the subject of many reviews so I will not be going into any detailed description of the kit here, just its application a littile out of its intended design.

I was cleaning up and found a short piece of Camphor Laurel timber with a knot hole in it, pretty usless I thought and was going to dump it.

I didnt have much to do this day so put it on the table saw. It was there I noticed it had a massive twist in it also rendering it almost certainly rubbish.

I thought I would see if I could remove the twist as an experiment, no loss iif it didnt work it was off to the bin anyway..

First up I cut off the worst part of the twist and ran the remainder through the table saw to return it to parallel.

Wood Rectangle Hardwood Gas Wood stain


Not content with that result I decided to cut the twisted section down and make a medalion to cover the knot hole.

I made a template jig to match the medalion,and then centered it over the knot hole.

Wood Hardwood Wood stain Plywood Lumber


Next I used the Inlay kit to route out the base material
Here is the setup with the collar fitted.

Fluid Gas Composite material Natural material Circle


If you have one of these kits and wonder where the sipral bit is, well it broke early in the piece when I let the trimmer chatter. A replacement bit was more them a complete kit, so I sourced alternatives, bought four for the price of one.

Be aware they are very easy to break.

Here is the base material routed out

Window Building Wood Gas Tints and shades


With that done I replaced the medalion in the jig removed the collar and routed the medalion.

Water Liquid Fluid Sink Plumbing fixture


Applied a 45 deg chamfer applied some glue and fitted it up.

View No 1
Triangle Wood Rectangle Tints and shades Font

View No 2
Wood Rectangle Beige Flooring Tints and shades

View no 3
Brown Rectangle Wood Flooring Wood stain


I was so impressed with the result I did another one just to see if i had fluked it.
Wood Rectangle Floor Wall Wood stain

View No 4
Wood Table Rectangle Tints and shades Wood stain


After a sand.
Rectangle Wood Gadget Hardwood Wood stain

And after a coat of Orange Oil
Rectangle Wood Wood stain Hardwood Cutting board


A fitting annotation.
Brown Wood Rectangle Wood stain Hardwood


Conclusion: The Inlay Kit can be used to do medalion work quite sucessfully.
Just ensure you orient the timber grain to 90 deg from the base or any angle to suit I guess!

Use: Well it will go back on the shelf and reappear as a box top possibly, I liked the double diamond pattern , I guess because it reminded me of our MZ Force badge.

enjoy.
Great save Robert and a new weapon in your salvage arsenal.
 

Attachments

#43 ·
Liquid Hide Glue expired no good? Pt 1

Earlier in 2014 I was working with Liquid hide glue, and had a container on the shelf, upon checking it there was a shelf life expiry date 20/2010 so I went and bought another.

I did some tests on both at the time, pre May 2014 and I did not see any discernable differences in the expired glue and the fresh batch I had just bought, so both went on the shelf.

There they stayed until today, I was readings Stefangs blog on his home made LHG.

He conducted some strength destruction tests on his batch of glue, and noted LHG had a short shelf life.

So this prompted me to get my lot out again.

Upon checking I found the batch I bought earlier this year had now also expired in May 2014.

I was going to do some more tests to see if there was any difference in the expired batch and current batch but this was not to be the case.

As I was not keen to spend another $14 AUD just to do the tests I decided to use both expired batches, so here we with Part 1 the Glue up and technical information of the products.

Firstly here is a shot of both samples.

Brown Liquid Bottle Fluid Drink


and the small print on the back showing the expiry dates.

Bottle B

Brown Liquid Bottle Fluid Glass bottle


Bottle A

Liquid Bottle Fluid Material property Gas


First up a viscosity or settling test, as this will indicate a problem if there is a vast difference in viscosity.

Wood Bumper Font Automotive exterior Gas


Glue up Tests

Test 1

I applied a sample of glue
Rectangle Automotive exterior Handwriting Font Bumper


Initally joined together and then separated to check glue spread.

Rectangle Wood Font Material property Automotive exterior


Test 2

I again applied a sample of glue

Handwriting Rectangle Wood Font House numbering


Then did a glue spread check again.

Wood Rectangle Door Gas Wood stain


Test 3

A result of reading the glue should be applied with a heavy spread.

Handwriting Motor vehicle Bumper Automotive exterior Vehicle door


Checking the glue spread again.

Wood Rectangle Automotive exterior Bumper Gas


Apply clamps for 30 minutes

Bicycle part Wood Bicycle accessory Bicycle frame Bicycle tire


After 30 minutes had expired I removed the clamps and took another shot of the
settling sample.

The skin of the glue must have set in the 30 m as there was an ant walking around on the glue, maybe he was a small LJ.

Wood Automotive exterior Font Line Wood stain


I will now leave them for 24 hours and continue with Test No2 the stress test in 24 hours

Some Preliminary observations/results

It appears the 20/2010 sample B is less viscous (more runny) then the May 2014 Sample A.
This is most evident in the settling sample and in the meniscus of the test samples.
 

Attachments

#44 ·
Liquid Hide Glue expired no good? Pt 1

Earlier in 2014 I was working with Liquid hide glue, and had a container on the shelf, upon checking it there was a shelf life expiry date 20/2010 so I went and bought another.

I did some tests on both at the time, pre May 2014 and I did not see any discernable differences in the expired glue and the fresh batch I had just bought, so both went on the shelf.

There they stayed until today, I was readings Stefangs blog on his home made LHG.

He conducted some strength destruction tests on his batch of glue, and noted LHG had a short shelf life.

So this prompted me to get my lot out again.

Upon checking I found the batch I bought earlier this year had now also expired in May 2014.

I was going to do some more tests to see if there was any difference in the expired batch and current batch but this was not to be the case.

As I was not keen to spend another $14 AUD just to do the tests I decided to use both expired batches, so here we with Part 1 the Glue up and technical information of the products.

Firstly here is a shot of both samples.

Brown Liquid Bottle Fluid Drink


and the small print on the back showing the expiry dates.

Bottle B

Brown Liquid Bottle Fluid Glass bottle


Bottle A

Liquid Bottle Fluid Material property Gas


First up a viscosity or settling test, as this will indicate a problem if there is a vast difference in viscosity.

Wood Bumper Font Automotive exterior Gas


Glue up Tests

Test 1

I applied a sample of glue
Rectangle Automotive exterior Handwriting Font Bumper


Initally joined together and then separated to check glue spread.

Rectangle Wood Font Material property Automotive exterior


Test 2

I again applied a sample of glue

Handwriting Rectangle Wood Font House numbering


Then did a glue spread check again.

Wood Rectangle Door Gas Wood stain


Test 3

A result of reading the glue should be applied with a heavy spread.

Handwriting Motor vehicle Bumper Automotive exterior Vehicle door


Checking the glue spread again.

Wood Rectangle Automotive exterior Bumper Gas


Apply clamps for 30 minutes

Bicycle part Wood Bicycle accessory Bicycle frame Bicycle tire


After 30 minutes had expired I removed the clamps and took another shot of the
settling sample.

The skin of the glue must have set in the 30 m as there was an ant walking around on the glue, maybe he was a small LJ.

Wood Automotive exterior Font Line Wood stain


I will now leave them for 24 hours and continue with Test No2 the stress test in 24 hours

Some Preliminary observations/results

It appears the 20/2010 sample B is less viscous (more runny) then the May 2014 Sample A.
This is most evident in the settling sample and in the meniscus of the test samples.
did the ant live?
 

Attachments

#50 ·
Liquid Hide Glue expired no good Pt 2 Stress test results

OK its 24 hr plus and the LHG test results are in.

Shear Test Method:
All I did was hold each of the ends and pull them apart in line with the glue joint, very scientific.
However there were some surprising results observed.

LHG Test piece 1. Medium amount of glue

Wood Rectangle Paint Font Gas


Results:

The A sample broke shearing wood and glue
The B sample broke very easly and indicated a glue failure, no surprises there.

Observations:
As expected the B sample glue failed and failed very early in relation to effort required to break it.
The A sample held quite well and exibited some glue and timber failure.

Conclusion:
Throw the Sample B LHG bottle in the bin.

LHG Test piece 2. an additional amount of glue used.

Door Wood Fixture Paint Rectangle



Results:

Both the A and B sample broke equally, and exibited similar failure characteristics intrestingly enough the B sample looked no different to the A sample this time.

Observations:
Upon closer examation of the test samples there is clear evidence that a majority of the glue has failed in both tests.
There is also evidence of wood failure however this wood failure is of a smaller percentage as opposed to glue failure.

Conclusion:
Throw both LHG Bottles in the bin.


LHG Test piece 3 . A heavy spread application of glue used,as per manufacturers recommendations.


Wood Handwriting Paint Gas Font


Results:
The B sample broke however I was unable to break the A sample in my bare hands. (standard test procedure)

Observations:
There is no doubt the additional amount of glue contributed to the strength of the joint.
The length of the test samples are slightly shorter than those in test 1 and 2 but I dont think this produced a major difference in results.
Sample B exibited a majority of glue failure again, there is some timber failure but again its a small percentage compared to that of the glue joint.
Using a "heavy Application"of glue contributed to its strength.
I dont believe anything else would be achieved in breaking the A sample just for the test as it would be a different breaking strain required.

Conclusion:
Throw the Sample B LHG bottle in the bin, and be very suspect of sample A.

The Setting Test
Brown Wood Font Wood stain Hardwood


The A Sample
Wood Varnish Hardwood Wood stain Font


The B Sample
Brown Wood Rectangle Font Varnish


Results:
The glue formed a tack free to touch within 30minutes.
Overnight the glue had set without any more spread
I pushed my finger into both samples as a test, there was little or no depression on Sample A however Sample B showed a slight depression indicating the glue had not set correctly

Conclusion:
Throw the Sample B LHG bottle in the bin.

Findings:
LHG has from the manufacturer a shelf life of 12 months.
This is effectively an unopened bottle condition.
Application of LHG should be confined to specific projects and strict observation of the life after opening.
Both samples although each were out of date anyway exibited a high percentage of glue failure and should be discarded.

LHG should be purchased for specific task/project then discarded if not completly used in the imediate future.
This in itself makes the glue possibly a very expensive comodity if not all used at once.
 

Attachments

#51 ·
Liquid Hide Glue expired no good Pt 2 Stress test results

OK its 24 hr plus and the LHG test results are in.

Shear Test Method:
All I did was hold each of the ends and pull them apart in line with the glue joint, very scientific.
However there were some surprising results observed.

LHG Test piece 1. Medium amount of glue

Wood Rectangle Paint Font Gas


Results:

The A sample broke shearing wood and glue
The B sample broke very easly and indicated a glue failure, no surprises there.

Observations:
As expected the B sample glue failed and failed very early in relation to effort required to break it.
The A sample held quite well and exibited some glue and timber failure.

Conclusion:
Throw the Sample B LHG bottle in the bin.

LHG Test piece 2. an additional amount of glue used.

Door Wood Fixture Paint Rectangle



Results:

Both the A and B sample broke equally, and exibited similar failure characteristics intrestingly enough the B sample looked no different to the A sample this time.

Observations:
Upon closer examation of the test samples there is clear evidence that a majority of the glue has failed in both tests.
There is also evidence of wood failure however this wood failure is of a smaller percentage as opposed to glue failure.

Conclusion:
Throw both LHG Bottles in the bin.


LHG Test piece 3 . A heavy spread application of glue used,as per manufacturers recommendations.


Wood Handwriting Paint Gas Font


Results:
The B sample broke however I was unable to break the A sample in my bare hands. (standard test procedure)

Observations:
There is no doubt the additional amount of glue contributed to the strength of the joint.
The length of the test samples are slightly shorter than those in test 1 and 2 but I dont think this produced a major difference in results.
Sample B exibited a majority of glue failure again, there is some timber failure but again its a small percentage compared to that of the glue joint.
Using a "heavy Application"of glue contributed to its strength.
I dont believe anything else would be achieved in breaking the A sample just for the test as it would be a different breaking strain required.

Conclusion:
Throw the Sample B LHG bottle in the bin, and be very suspect of sample A.

The Setting Test
Brown Wood Font Wood stain Hardwood


The A Sample
Wood Varnish Hardwood Wood stain Font


The B Sample
Brown Wood Rectangle Font Varnish


Results:
The glue formed a tack free to touch within 30minutes.
Overnight the glue had set without any more spread
I pushed my finger into both samples as a test, there was little or no depression on Sample A however Sample B showed a slight depression indicating the glue had not set correctly

Conclusion:
Throw the Sample B LHG bottle in the bin.

Findings:
LHG has from the manufacturer a shelf life of 12 months.
This is effectively an unopened bottle condition.
Application of LHG should be confined to specific projects and strict observation of the life after opening.
Both samples although each were out of date anyway exibited a high percentage of glue failure and should be discarded.

LHG should be purchased for specific task/project then discarded if not completly used in the imediate future.
This in itself makes the glue possibly a very expensive comodity if not all used at once.
Very interesting Robert. I will stick with my homemade version of LHG since it is well preserved with salt and therefore has no expiry date.

Your results showing that more glue equals more strength is contrary to my own results, so I will test to see if I get the same results again with my homemade LHG.

Of course for someone who uses a lot of glue more or less continually the commercial LHG would still be a good option, especially if his glue ups require a long open time, but maybe not for those who don't.

I love this kind of testing because while it is not scientific they do probably reflect what actually goes on in our shops.
 

Attachments

#54 ·
Cutting roof ridge capping on the Table Saw

In Dec 2013 I made a wooden Mower Shed from recycled materials.

In that construction I did not make or fit ridge capping to the roof.

I have just completed the second "Mower Shed" and due process has taken place and I have made some improvements.
Namely the fittment of custom made ridge capping.

Wood Plant Pet supply Gas Outdoor structure


This is how I did it:

First up select some suitable material for your Ridge Capping.

Wood Automotive exterior Bumper Floor Flooring


The standard roof pitch here is 20 to 30 degrees, so I chose 22.5 deg as my roof pitch angle.

So first up I set my table saw to 22.5 degrees.

Wood Font Motor vehicle Saw Gas


As we are going to make non through cuts and also working with small material the saw guard and splitter was removed.

You will not see it in the pictures but I replaced the saw guard with a face shield, which was on my head!

Hood Automotive exterior Wood Gas Glass


A word of warning to those not familar with the dangers of timber off cut projectile effect.

This process presents a danger to the operator if that if the position their body is in line with the saw blade and fence as the off cut timber trapped between the blade and the fence is produced it will eject with enough force to injure you!
One of the perils of a right tilting saw blade.

Sleeve Hat Bag Sportswear T-shirt


I am not saying it will completley penetrate the operator and come out the back but not lets have any any injuries please!

Gesture Sunlight Material property Gas Tints and shades


Stand to the side, or the back of the saw when using this process.

OK with the safety aspects covered here we go.

The first cut, The height is set by measuring a half way point on the timber, and setting the blade height, and be aware after the first cut this may have to be adjusted to ensure correct positioning, so you may choose to use a test piece first up.
Secondly the thickness is determined by the amount of stand off of the blade in relation to the distance to the fence.

Wood Stairs Automotive exterior Flooring Wood stain


A note: Cut 1 and 2 present no projectile hazard situations and are safe for all operators, its cut No 3 and No 4 where care must be taken.

Wood Stairs Automotive exterior Flooring Wood stain


After cut No 1 is completed commence cut No 2 by simply inverting the material.
Upon commencing cut No 2 verification of the correct height must be conformed otherwise over cutting or undercutting will occur.

Undercutting: Requires the blade to be raised and the process repeated.

Overcutting: May ruin the material at the finished product.

Wood Flooring Floor Rectangle Wood stain


As cut No 2 is completed the waste material will simply fall away in position.

Plant Wood Hood Grass Automotive lighting


Its a bit obsqured but I am using a push stick to move the material.

After resetting of the saw blade its time for Cut No 3 and No 4. Dont be surprised if the blade may be in the fence.

Cut No 3 is commenced.

Cut No 3 requires some table saw compentency skills here now as the operator will be at the back of the saw in part of the process.

This serves two purposes:
1 It removes any possible risk of operator impailment, and allows
2 Management of the process.

Wood Tread Flooring Rectangle Floor


As the material is fed into the saw the operator moves from the front of the saw to the back, this allows control of both the Ridge capping being cut and the hazardous off cut.

Wood Floor Automotive exterior Composite material Gas


Now at the back

Watch Hood Automotive lighting Automotive tire Gas


Dependent of you being left or right handed the hands will change to suit.

Wood Floor Wood stain Flooring Hardwood


Once the No 3 cut is complete invert the material again and repeat the process for cut No 4

Its the base material that has not been cut which maintains the stability and accuracy of the cuts.

Wood Composite material Rectangle Flooring Hardwood


Keeping this in mind and the fact that the operator is standing to the rear or side of the saw there is a possibility the very end of the ridge capping will/may have a taper in it, if the material is over length to start with simply just cut it off.

Wood Wood stain Automotive exterior Hardwood Plank


Remember the projectile hazard!

Motor vehicle Hood Bumper Sports equipment Automotive exterior


In closing if you have any concerns in making Ridge Capping using this method do not do it.

Go buy some from your local timber supplier.

enjoy
 

Attachments

#55 ·
Cutting roof ridge capping on the Table Saw

In Dec 2013 I made a wooden Mower Shed from recycled materials.

In that construction I did not make or fit ridge capping to the roof.

I have just completed the second "Mower Shed" and due process has taken place and I have made some improvements.
Namely the fittment of custom made ridge capping.

Wood Plant Pet supply Gas Outdoor structure


This is how I did it:

First up select some suitable material for your Ridge Capping.

Wood Automotive exterior Bumper Floor Flooring


The standard roof pitch here is 20 to 30 degrees, so I chose 22.5 deg as my roof pitch angle.

So first up I set my table saw to 22.5 degrees.

Wood Font Motor vehicle Saw Gas


As we are going to make non through cuts and also working with small material the saw guard and splitter was removed.

You will not see it in the pictures but I replaced the saw guard with a face shield, which was on my head!

Hood Automotive exterior Wood Gas Glass


A word of warning to those not familar with the dangers of timber off cut projectile effect.

This process presents a danger to the operator if that if the position their body is in line with the saw blade and fence as the off cut timber trapped between the blade and the fence is produced it will eject with enough force to injure you!
One of the perils of a right tilting saw blade.

Sleeve Hat Bag Sportswear T-shirt


I am not saying it will completley penetrate the operator and come out the back but not lets have any any injuries please!

Gesture Sunlight Material property Gas Tints and shades


Stand to the side, or the back of the saw when using this process.

OK with the safety aspects covered here we go.

The first cut, The height is set by measuring a half way point on the timber, and setting the blade height, and be aware after the first cut this may have to be adjusted to ensure correct positioning, so you may choose to use a test piece first up.
Secondly the thickness is determined by the amount of stand off of the blade in relation to the distance to the fence.

Wood Stairs Automotive exterior Flooring Wood stain


A note: Cut 1 and 2 present no projectile hazard situations and are safe for all operators, its cut No 3 and No 4 where care must be taken.

Wood Stairs Automotive exterior Flooring Wood stain


After cut No 1 is completed commence cut No 2 by simply inverting the material.
Upon commencing cut No 2 verification of the correct height must be conformed otherwise over cutting or undercutting will occur.

Undercutting: Requires the blade to be raised and the process repeated.

Overcutting: May ruin the material at the finished product.

Wood Flooring Floor Rectangle Wood stain


As cut No 2 is completed the waste material will simply fall away in position.

Plant Wood Hood Grass Automotive lighting


Its a bit obsqured but I am using a push stick to move the material.

After resetting of the saw blade its time for Cut No 3 and No 4. Dont be surprised if the blade may be in the fence.

Cut No 3 is commenced.

Cut No 3 requires some table saw compentency skills here now as the operator will be at the back of the saw in part of the process.

This serves two purposes:
1 It removes any possible risk of operator impailment, and allows
2 Management of the process.

Wood Tread Flooring Rectangle Floor


As the material is fed into the saw the operator moves from the front of the saw to the back, this allows control of both the Ridge capping being cut and the hazardous off cut.

Wood Floor Automotive exterior Composite material Gas


Now at the back

Watch Hood Automotive lighting Automotive tire Gas


Dependent of you being left or right handed the hands will change to suit.

Wood Floor Wood stain Flooring Hardwood


Once the No 3 cut is complete invert the material again and repeat the process for cut No 4

Its the base material that has not been cut which maintains the stability and accuracy of the cuts.

Wood Composite material Rectangle Flooring Hardwood


Keeping this in mind and the fact that the operator is standing to the rear or side of the saw there is a possibility the very end of the ridge capping will/may have a taper in it, if the material is over length to start with simply just cut it off.

Wood Wood stain Automotive exterior Hardwood Plank


Remember the projectile hazard!

Motor vehicle Hood Bumper Sports equipment Automotive exterior


In closing if you have any concerns in making Ridge Capping using this method do not do it.

Go buy some from your local timber supplier.

enjoy
sweet.
 

Attachments

#59 ·
Wood Polishing

I was polishing some wood this week and thought I should post the results for other LJs that may find the activity and results something they may want to try out.

The timber is recycled Jarrah

Riddled with nails screws and bolts.

This image shows a before and after shot of some timber.

Brown Wood Grey Rectangle Hardwood


Now a series of rotated images

Wood Rectangle Flooring Hardwood Wood stain


and again

Wood Rectangle Hardwood Electric blue Wood stain


Wood Flooring Floor Wood stain Material property


All well and good you may say but how was it done?

Firstly ensure you have a saw blade…...

Opps Looks like some of the blog has disappered, My sincerest apologies to those reading and wondering why the blog stopped suddenly !!

So continuing on:

......capable of cutting nails fitted to the saw, I am not saying to deliberately cut them but it may happen and you wouldn't want to ruin a good blade in the process.

I then cut off a end section of the pallet bearer, keeping in mind the timber is not the "normal" pallet timber.

It's Australian hardwood Jarrah.

I tried to remove the nails but is was not to be so.

I then Knocked out and kept the broken off bolt.
With my disc Sander sanded I then sanded the material back so it was square.
I then sanded on the chamfers.

The block is now sanded to about 60 Grit

The broken bolt was replaced.

Next up I setup my polishing motor and with a calico buff and some Pale green compound (originally sold as compound for polishing Stainless Steel)
Began to polish all the sides, upon completion I used a Terry towel cloth to remove most of the compound residue.

As you can see in the pictures any gaps still have the compound present.

At this stage I do not know how to get it out maybe PASs or some othere LJ polishers can provide some input here.

Later tried to improve the finish by using furniture polish on the block but it did not provide any improvement on the finish.
 

Attachments

#60 ·
Wood Polishing

I was polishing some wood this week and thought I should post the results for other LJs that may find the activity and results something they may want to try out.

The timber is recycled Jarrah

Riddled with nails screws and bolts.

This image shows a before and after shot of some timber.

Brown Wood Grey Rectangle Hardwood


Now a series of rotated images

Wood Rectangle Flooring Hardwood Wood stain


and again

Wood Rectangle Hardwood Electric blue Wood stain


Wood Flooring Floor Wood stain Material property


All well and good you may say but how was it done?

Firstly ensure you have a saw blade…...

Opps Looks like some of the blog has disappered, My sincerest apologies to those reading and wondering why the blog stopped suddenly !!

So continuing on:

......capable of cutting nails fitted to the saw, I am not saying to deliberately cut them but it may happen and you wouldn't want to ruin a good blade in the process.

I then cut off a end section of the pallet bearer, keeping in mind the timber is not the "normal" pallet timber.

It's Australian hardwood Jarrah.

I tried to remove the nails but is was not to be so.

I then Knocked out and kept the broken off bolt.
With my disc Sander sanded I then sanded the material back so it was square.
I then sanded on the chamfers.

The block is now sanded to about 60 Grit

The broken bolt was replaced.

Next up I setup my polishing motor and with a calico buff and some Pale green compound (originally sold as compound for polishing Stainless Steel)
Began to polish all the sides, upon completion I used a Terry towel cloth to remove most of the compound residue.

As you can see in the pictures any gaps still have the compound present.

At this stage I do not know how to get it out maybe PASs or some othere LJ polishers can provide some input here.

Later tried to improve the finish by using furniture polish on the block but it did not provide any improvement on the finish.
OK… I give up… how was it done? :)
 

Attachments

#67 ·
Flattening Timber

This is a topic just about flogged to death everywhere by lots of very knowledgable woodworkers. so I thought I should give it a go if only to exercise all the effort so many woodworkers have put into demonstrating the various methods and practices.

So here we go:

I was fortnunate enough to get a couple of small pieces of Water/Swamp Gum today.

Sky Hood Sculpture Tree Art


I brought it all inside and had a good look at it
Plant Wood Road surface Hardwood Concrete

There are six pieces all up

Wood Plant Hardwood Wood stain Shade


Wood Automotive exterior Bumper Hardwood Wood stain


One had a lot of twists and was just about small enought to fit into my thicknesser so I cut it up into useable sizes, one to see if I could remove the twists and two to see what the timber looked like finished.

The piece on the right was my first run

Wood Rectangle Gas Tints and shades Font


The twist was the worst in this piece so I took to it with my Arbour tec planner to get it to a reasonable working flatness.

Brown Wood Automotive exterior Road surface Brick


The finished result was so good I decided to do the other two,

Handwriting Rectangle Wood Wood stain Hardwood


Without boring everybody too much here are some progress photos:
Side 1 first run
Wood Rectangle Wood stain Hardwood Gas

Side 1 complete
Rectangle Handwriting Gadget Gas Font


Side 2 first run
Handwriting Wood Font Rectangle Material property


Side 2 progress, I added this as the final photo is blured and the features spoiled.
Wood Rectangle Floor Art Gas


Side 2 complete

Wood Handwriting Flooring Floor Font


I then did a third run and finished up with these pieces.
Brown Wood Wood stain Hardwood Rectangle


Surprisingly easy to flatten the twists.

Final thickness:

There is a slight variation in the final finished three pieces but generally for the second and third run there was about 6mm removed from each side.

The first one is thinner and it looks to have had up to 8 to 10mm per side removed so there is a massive timber loss flattening badly twisted timber.
 

Attachments

#68 ·
Flattening Timber

This is a topic just about flogged to death everywhere by lots of very knowledgable woodworkers. so I thought I should give it a go if only to exercise all the effort so many woodworkers have put into demonstrating the various methods and practices.

So here we go:

I was fortnunate enough to get a couple of small pieces of Water/Swamp Gum today.

Sky Hood Sculpture Tree Art


I brought it all inside and had a good look at it
Plant Wood Road surface Hardwood Concrete

There are six pieces all up

Wood Plant Hardwood Wood stain Shade


Wood Automotive exterior Bumper Hardwood Wood stain


One had a lot of twists and was just about small enought to fit into my thicknesser so I cut it up into useable sizes, one to see if I could remove the twists and two to see what the timber looked like finished.

The piece on the right was my first run

Wood Rectangle Gas Tints and shades Font


The twist was the worst in this piece so I took to it with my Arbour tec planner to get it to a reasonable working flatness.

Brown Wood Automotive exterior Road surface Brick


The finished result was so good I decided to do the other two,

Handwriting Rectangle Wood Wood stain Hardwood


Without boring everybody too much here are some progress photos:
Side 1 first run
Wood Rectangle Wood stain Hardwood Gas

Side 1 complete
Rectangle Handwriting Gadget Gas Font


Side 2 first run
Handwriting Wood Font Rectangle Material property


Side 2 progress, I added this as the final photo is blured and the features spoiled.
Wood Rectangle Floor Art Gas


Side 2 complete

Wood Handwriting Flooring Floor Font


I then did a third run and finished up with these pieces.
Brown Wood Wood stain Hardwood Rectangle


Surprisingly easy to flatten the twists.

Final thickness:

There is a slight variation in the final finished three pieces but generally for the second and third run there was about 6mm removed from each side.

The first one is thinner and it looks to have had up to 8 to 10mm per side removed so there is a massive timber loss flattening badly twisted timber.
Twist can be unfun. That looks like some nice lumber you got there Robert and the planing went well.
 

Attachments

#70 ·
Pull saw at work

I have a small pull saw and its a great asset in the wood tool kit.
Today I was making a Walnut Key Holder and in the production of it I needed to cut a small piece from the key to square off the key stop.
As it was right in the radius of the key slot I decided to see if my pull saw would do the job.

Wood Hood Table Office ruler Clock


This is a close up of the final result.

Brown Wood Grey Floor Flooring


I was very happy with the result, and with a little sanding later it will look OK.

So there you have it a pull saw at work and the results achieved.

So if you were thinking of adding a Pull Saw to the tool kit, simple job to help you decide.
 

Attachments

#71 ·
Pull saw at work

I have a small pull saw and its a great asset in the wood tool kit.
Today I was making a Walnut Key Holder and in the production of it I needed to cut a small piece from the key to square off the key stop.
As it was right in the radius of the key slot I decided to see if my pull saw would do the job.

Wood Hood Table Office ruler Clock


This is a close up of the final result.

Brown Wood Grey Floor Flooring


I was very happy with the result, and with a little sanding later it will look OK.

So there you have it a pull saw at work and the results achieved.

So if you were thinking of adding a Pull Saw to the tool kit, simple job to help you decide.
Well done Robert and a good suggestion. I have some Japanese pull saws and I find them very handy at times.
 

Attachments

#75 ·
Hollow Chisel Mortiser HCM Chisel Tune Up

I have been reading a FWW Magazine of which had heaps of articles of interest, one of those was an artice on Hollow Chisel Mortisers (HCM)

I had been making some M&T joints and a minature stair rail with my HCM.
The stair rail

Wood Rectangle Road surface Hardwood Composite material


Wood Road surface Gas Asphalt Font


The scale and Chisel size may not be the best and the M&T were garbage (NWP)

With the very unsatisfactory results I decided to do more research and checked out some LJ Blogs/reviews.
It seems HCM do not get rave reviews for all sorts of operational reasons.

However a common viewpoint almost every where was that the chisels need to be lapped and resharpened before use.

I had done this with mine when I first bought it but decided to revisit the procedure again.

I had two chisels of the same size so I used one as a comparasion as I reworked the other one.

I used a four sided diamond hone labeled 200,300,400 and 600,and grey polishing compound on the Auger flutes.

This is what the surface improvement looked like.

I started on the chip opening side first and progressed around the chisel, its fairly obvious the rework is on the left, and you can still see my previous lap work on the right chisel.

Natural material Wood Belt Everyday carry Sword


Next side 2 Again its visible the additional work was required

Natural material Tool Wood Blade Animal product


Then side 3 Much the same result here.

Wood Tool Metal Art Hardwood


and finally side 4 possibly not quite as much variation here.

Wood Musical instrument Artifact Wind instrument Metal


the Auger exposed is definately shiner and smoother.

Wood Tool Household hardware Metal Blade


The process took me about 1 hour using the diamond stone in a water bath.

Conclusion: Is it all worth the effort? Well the surface is certainly smoother so binding should be reduced.

I will do a comparasion test soon using both chisels (and buy some dry Lube as well) and report back soon.
 

Attachments

#76 ·
Hollow Chisel Mortiser HCM Chisel Tune Up

I have been reading a FWW Magazine of which had heaps of articles of interest, one of those was an artice on Hollow Chisel Mortisers (HCM)

I had been making some M&T joints and a minature stair rail with my HCM.
The stair rail

Wood Rectangle Road surface Hardwood Composite material


Wood Road surface Gas Asphalt Font


The scale and Chisel size may not be the best and the M&T were garbage (NWP)

With the very unsatisfactory results I decided to do more research and checked out some LJ Blogs/reviews.
It seems HCM do not get rave reviews for all sorts of operational reasons.

However a common viewpoint almost every where was that the chisels need to be lapped and resharpened before use.

I had done this with mine when I first bought it but decided to revisit the procedure again.

I had two chisels of the same size so I used one as a comparasion as I reworked the other one.

I used a four sided diamond hone labeled 200,300,400 and 600,and grey polishing compound on the Auger flutes.

This is what the surface improvement looked like.

I started on the chip opening side first and progressed around the chisel, its fairly obvious the rework is on the left, and you can still see my previous lap work on the right chisel.

Natural material Wood Belt Everyday carry Sword


Next side 2 Again its visible the additional work was required

Natural material Tool Wood Blade Animal product


Then side 3 Much the same result here.

Wood Tool Metal Art Hardwood


and finally side 4 possibly not quite as much variation here.

Wood Musical instrument Artifact Wind instrument Metal


the Auger exposed is definately shiner and smoother.

Wood Tool Household hardware Metal Blade


The process took me about 1 hour using the diamond stone in a water bath.

Conclusion: Is it all worth the effort? Well the surface is certainly smoother so binding should be reduced.

I will do a comparasion test soon using both chisels (and buy some dry Lube as well) and report back soon.
It will be interesting to see what result you get after these improvements Rob.
 

Attachments

#80 ·
Hollow Chisel Mortiser HCM Tune up More Preparation work

After completing lapping and polishing all the Hollow Chisel (HC) external surfaces it was time to go inside.
It was a pretty ugly view I tell you.

Wood Auto part Metal Office supplies Composite material


A very rough surface finish indeed, so out with the paper and dowel stick, (now this is OK for 5/8 1/2 and 3/8 but below that its very tricky so I used a dremmel. (Psst its really and Ozito Knock off)

My first results with paper were encouraging but very slow going so I fitted up the dremell with some stones and tried that. A much better result however the metal was eating the pink composition wheels as fast as.
I wasnt too concerned as they wore away I worked out how the smaller chisels would be done!

Tool Line Drill accessories Gas Auto part


The brown composition wheel showed very little wear so it was not going to reduce as fast. So it was only suitable for a couple of HCs.

Tool Gas Metalworking hand tool Hand tool Wrench


Here is a couple of shots of the pink composition

Wood Auto part Metal Gas Composite material


After all that a good wash and inspection showed great results, well at least they looked good.

Conclusion:-

Some observations I made along the way
nbeener has posted an almost similar process, Neil I think found the same info as I.

The augers have a tendency to suffer from run out especially the smaller ones 1/4 and so on.
This is no big deal as long as you use the HC to align your work instead of the auger point.
They can be corrected by some careful bashing, but I doubt I could get zero runout.
Trying to find a 5/8 suitable diamond cone hone is almost impossible so I was unable to hone the 5/8 at this stage.

Ready for testing.
 

Attachments

#81 ·
Hollow Chisel Motriser HCM Test run and Results

I conducted some tests using similar setup conditions

A piece of softwood and a piece of hardwod was used,
The gap between the auger and Hollow Chisel (HC) was 2.5mm in each test
A test instrument for automotive testing was used to measure temperature with a K type thermocouple
A luggage scale and chain was used for the force tests.

The test results are approximate only and are subject to human variations but I did my best to replicate identical conditions as much as possible.

So here we go.

Test 1 is with an unlapped and unpolished 3/8 HC
Test 2 is with a lapped and polished 3/8 HC

I used my phone to take the pictures as I ran the tests so they are all raw data shots so please bear with the blurring and framing.

Test 1 softwood

Two mortises were cut

The effort in kgs to do this varied from 9.5 kgs to 12 kgs
The temperature at the tip of the HC at completion was about 67deg C

Telephone Telephony Automotive tire Communication Device Motor vehicle

Satellite phone Telephone Telephony Communication Device Two-way radio

Gas Automotive tire Engineering Audio equipment Machine

Engineering Gas Scientific instrument Plant Machine

Measuring instrument Office ruler Tool Gas Metalworking hand tool


Test 2 Softwood same material

Two mortices were cut

The effort in kgs to do this varied from 9.2 to 9.7 kgs
The temperature at the tip of the HC at completion was about 50deg C

Measuring instrument Communication Device Automotive tire Telephony Gas

Gas Measuring instrument Machine Plant Gauge

Temperature Measuring instrument Gauge Gas Audio equipment


Test 1 Hardwood

Only one mortise was completly cut due to the HC blocking with chips, To remove the chisel and reset everything was not considered worthwile

The effort in kgs to do this varied from 14.2 to 16 kgs
The temperature at the tip of the HC at completion of only one complete mortice was about 70.4 deg C

Camera accessory Automotive tire Gadget Communication Device Gas

Wood Gas Composite material Concrete Metal

Temperature Measuring instrument Audio equipment Gas Gadget


Test 2 Hardwood same material

Two mortises were cut

The effort in kgs to do this varied from 15.8 kgs to 17.4 kgs
The temperature at the tip of the HC at completion was about 59 deg C

Temperature Gas Measuring instrument Display device Machine

Temperature Measuring instrument Gas Service Machine

Measuring instrument Gas Audio equipment Gauge Sports equipment


Observations:

The effort to cut the mortices appeared to be less (by feel alone) however the results for hardwood show differently.
The effort to withdraw the HC was certainly improved to the extent no jambing in both materials at all occured after lapping the sides.

Apperance of the finished mortise.
As the mortices were individual cuts only this was not assessed.
Temperature: There is a measurable reduction in temperature after lapping.

Conclusion:

Was it all worthwile? I would say for somebody who does mortises on a regular basis most certainly.
For those of us which the use is less fequent I would also say yes, conditionally on how much pride you take in your work and maintenance of your tools.

I should try and get Mathias to rig up some proper test rigs to accurately validate the work, he would possibly get a real kick out of it too!

Enjoy
 

Attachments

#82 ·
Hollow Chisel Motriser HCM Test run and Results

I conducted some tests using similar setup conditions

A piece of softwood and a piece of hardwod was used,
The gap between the auger and Hollow Chisel (HC) was 2.5mm in each test
A test instrument for automotive testing was used to measure temperature with a K type thermocouple
A luggage scale and chain was used for the force tests.

The test results are approximate only and are subject to human variations but I did my best to replicate identical conditions as much as possible.

So here we go.

Test 1 is with an unlapped and unpolished 3/8 HC
Test 2 is with a lapped and polished 3/8 HC

I used my phone to take the pictures as I ran the tests so they are all raw data shots so please bear with the blurring and framing.

Test 1 softwood

Two mortises were cut

The effort in kgs to do this varied from 9.5 kgs to 12 kgs
The temperature at the tip of the HC at completion was about 67deg C

Telephone Telephony Automotive tire Communication Device Motor vehicle

Satellite phone Telephone Telephony Communication Device Two-way radio

Gas Automotive tire Engineering Audio equipment Machine

Engineering Gas Scientific instrument Plant Machine

Measuring instrument Office ruler Tool Gas Metalworking hand tool


Test 2 Softwood same material

Two mortices were cut

The effort in kgs to do this varied from 9.2 to 9.7 kgs
The temperature at the tip of the HC at completion was about 50deg C

Measuring instrument Communication Device Automotive tire Telephony Gas

Gas Measuring instrument Machine Plant Gauge

Temperature Measuring instrument Gauge Gas Audio equipment


Test 1 Hardwood

Only one mortise was completly cut due to the HC blocking with chips, To remove the chisel and reset everything was not considered worthwile

The effort in kgs to do this varied from 14.2 to 16 kgs
The temperature at the tip of the HC at completion of only one complete mortice was about 70.4 deg C

Camera accessory Automotive tire Gadget Communication Device Gas

Wood Gas Composite material Concrete Metal

Temperature Measuring instrument Audio equipment Gas Gadget


Test 2 Hardwood same material

Two mortises were cut

The effort in kgs to do this varied from 15.8 kgs to 17.4 kgs
The temperature at the tip of the HC at completion was about 59 deg C

Temperature Gas Measuring instrument Display device Machine

Temperature Measuring instrument Gas Service Machine

Measuring instrument Gas Audio equipment Gauge Sports equipment


Observations:

The effort to cut the mortices appeared to be less (by feel alone) however the results for hardwood show differently.
The effort to withdraw the HC was certainly improved to the extent no jambing in both materials at all occured after lapping the sides.

Apperance of the finished mortise.
As the mortices were individual cuts only this was not assessed.
Temperature: There is a measurable reduction in temperature after lapping.

Conclusion:

Was it all worthwile? I would say for somebody who does mortises on a regular basis most certainly.
For those of us which the use is less fequent I would also say yes, conditionally on how much pride you take in your work and maintenance of your tools.

I should try and get Mathias to rig up some proper test rigs to accurately validate the work, he would possibly get a real kick out of it too!

Enjoy
Very cool write-up. I'm in the process of sharpening/polishing my hollow chisels and found it an interesting read. Did you use a cone to sharpen the one chisel before lapping/polishing? If not, I'd be curious to know how that effects the results.
 

Attachments

#89 ·
Hollow Chisel Mortiser Tune Up Pt3

Hollow Chisel Mortiser (HCM) Tune Up Part 3

Well its been a long time coming for part 3 mainly because the HCM does not get much continual use, however because my No 4 son Toby asked for some more clothes dryers for his friends the HCM was brought out to do the job and it prompted me to finish the HCM Tune up blog series, so here we go.

Some Background

The project
The knock apart dryers have pegged mortices on the posts and shouldered tenons on the rails at each end.

Wood Shade Wood stain Tints and shades Hardwood


The Hollow Chisel Mortiser (HCM)

Machine Engineering Auto part Titanium Metal


Is a bench top model and has a capacity up to 5/8 or 16mm chisels

Accessories

The chisel set consists of five HC 1/4 inch, 5/16 inch, 3/8 inch, 1/2 inch and 5/8 inch
The sharpening Kit comprises of a HSS six flute cone reamer and four guide pins 1/4 inch, 5/16 inch, 3/8 inch, and 1/2 inch only. Notice the absence of a 5/8 guide.

Hollow Chisel Mortiser (HCM) Tune Up Part 3

OK now on with the tune up, first up thanks for all the feedback and suggestions provided regarding the chisel will benefit by sharpening the bevel.

My attempts to buy a diamond cone sharpening set locally were still unsuccessful so I settled for a HSS version. Personally I think this type falls short of the diamond set mainly because of the inability to sharpen a 5/8 chisel where as the diamond set by design covers all the sizes up to 5/8 I am assuming, (some are only 13mm or ½ inch.
And the quality of finish of diamonds as opposed to the chattering HSS fluted type.

Wood Musical instrument accessory Rectangle Musical instrument String instrument accessory


HMC Bevel Angles.

An interesting exercise if nothing else was an attempt to find out before I started what the bevel angle for the cutting edge of a HMC at manufacture was.
There seems to be no design specifications provided.

HMC Sharpening kit Bevel Angles.
I can advise that the cones are 60 degrees so I am assuming the Hollow chisels are all the same, however regardless they are going to end up at 60 deg by default after sharpening.

Out of interest I decided to determine the angle differences, so by applying a marker pen on the cutting surface and doing an initial grind it will hopefully show the result, This is what I found.

Wood Gas Adhesive Adhesive tape Electric blue


It appears to be the same angle as the cutter.

Gas Wood Auto part Machine Metal


After sharpening the Chisel there will be a slight burr left on the four outside edges. Use this burr as a guide as to how accurately you held the cutter on the chisel.
What you should have is a burr of equal proportions on all four sides.

Notice in my photo the left spur has some dye left on it. As small as it was there was a noticeable difference in the burr profile on this corner, so I repeated the process.

Recommended practices for carrying out this procedure vary considerably from: use only a drill press and vice, to to using a wood brace, then by hand only, and finally with a battery drill.

All very confusing if you are doing it for the first time but be guided first up by the suppliers recommendations then modify it to suit the best result.

To remove the burrs from the outside of the chisel draw the chisel across the diamond stone, Job complete!!

Additional sharpening

The cones come in two grits, Coarse 220 and fine 600 the application in sequence is required to achieve a satisfactory result.

There is also thought to filing grooves in the corners of the chisel to assist in chip removal. This was certainly something I was not aware of so I spent some time investigating. There is actually evidence of a patent back in 1929 covering this.

Have a look at the diagram and in particular fig 7.

Font Parallel Rectangle Pattern Engineering


So was it still done today was the next question, with some more research I found an article in the Popular Woodworking Magazine Blog HCM Tune up and again there was a reference to it.

"The last step is to file a notch on each of the inside corners with a triangular file. I wish I could take credit for thinking of this, but it is a feature found on some chisels. I first saw it on the premium chisel set from Lee Valley. Depending on the hardness of the chisel, this filing may take a while, but I think the results are worth it".

This provides some more clearance between the outside of the auger bit and the inside of the chisel. I also think it makes it easier to plunge the corners of the chisel into the wood to start the cut. The benefits of doing this aren't as great as the benefits of smoothing the outside of the chisel, but it doesn't hurt, and in some species of wood may really help.

Also within the Lee Valley site accompanying a set of HCs there was some more info and reason for doing the activity was also documented.

Relieving Inside Corners

Gesture Drinkware Art Font Drawing


Even with a finely honed mortising bit you may find that the chisel requires a lot of pressure to penetrate into the wood; particularly hardwood. This can be remedied somewhat by relieving the inside corners of the bit to reduce the wedging action of the chips. This is done with a small, very fine-cut square or round file. Clamp the mortise bit in a vise and stroke toward the inside, removing no more material than illustrated.

The next step was to attempt this relief corner work, with my chisels and available tools I was not able to successfully do it so I ceased work on it. I might add trying to do this on chisles smaller than 5/16 would be almost impossibe at home, in a engineering workshop well maybe.
But its there for information.
Dont forget, as an aside you may also be able to use the sharpener to resharpen your wad cutters too, sure beats trying keep the outside surface concentric.

HMC Sharpening the Auger.

To sharpen the HC auger a flat or triangular file is used much the same as a conventional wood auger.

The HCM auger differs slightly from convention as it only has one cutting edge and cutting spur, in most cases, but it appears from research thet you can buy twin cutters at least however I was unable to find any twin cutter and twin spur versions in my investigations.

Cutting surfaces

One cutting edge and spur

Tool Office supplies Font Household hardware Nickel


Two cutting edges
Legend has it that if there is two cutting edges it's of an English origin where as if its only one cutter the origin is Taiwanese or Japanese.

I will leave you to form your own opinion here!

No examples two cutting spurs were to be found.

To sharpen the auger simply file the cutting edges on the inside , do not touch the outer edges of auger anywhere.

Exception
Polishing the Chisel and Auger.

No doubt you are aware all HCM bits require honing of the business end and sharpening to suit each users requirements before use. This is a one off step which pays dividends later in the life of the HMC.

How I did mine.


Bicycle part Nickel Auto part Metal Font


Tool Office supplies Nickel Gas Ratchet


Font Asphalt Metal Fashion accessory Titanium


I used a fine linisher belt to remove the grinding marks on the chisel body then a Scotch Brite belt to final polish everything I used the Scotch Brite belt only to polish the auger chip extractors up to the cutting surface.

Inspect closely the Point of the Auger
This is an addition point worth mentioning as I had a auger with an off centre filed point. It has a run out of 2mm. this may be of no consequence but reinforces the fact the chisel should always be aligned on the outer edge of the chisel and not the centre point.

Ruler Light Black Wood Office ruler


Black Wood Plant Wall Font


Wood Ruler Office ruler Font Tints and shades


Find an HC you want but the shank is too long? They are designed that way simply cut it to length with a hack saw they are soft in this area.

Use of Dry Lubricant.
I did some tests with dry lubricant and it certainly made the extraction easier

Food Wood Ingredient Staple food Recipe


Other modifications.

I also added a strip of cloth backed grit to the clamp face. I considered doing the back surface of the vice as well but decided against it due to the fact I use the vertical surface for initial setup alignment of the chisel.

Comfort Wood Art Carmine Automotive design


Conclusion:
Was it all worth it
This is now up to the user to decide, in my opinion polishing is a must.
If you are not convienced check out the photo of the chisel at the Pt 1 of this series.

Polishing after the square surface on the chisel is purely cosmetic but that was the width of the belt so it got done by default.
A Hollow Chisel Mortiser would have to be the least used tools I have, and is only good for a single use, making square holes. It requires meticulous set up to produce quality work, it's a heavy brute, but when set up and used correctly an irreplaceable tool if you do a lot of mortices.
Subjectively would I buy another one, the answer would have to be no in my work application.
Dont get me wrong its now a great little machine, and the more I use it the more I like it.
Having a chuck it could suffice for a single speed drill press.
 

Attachments

#90 ·
Hollow Chisel Mortiser Tune Up Pt3

Hollow Chisel Mortiser (HCM) Tune Up Part 3

Well its been a long time coming for part 3 mainly because the HCM does not get much continual use, however because my No 4 son Toby asked for some more clothes dryers for his friends the HCM was brought out to do the job and it prompted me to finish the HCM Tune up blog series, so here we go.

Some Background

The project
The knock apart dryers have pegged mortices on the posts and shouldered tenons on the rails at each end.

Wood Shade Wood stain Tints and shades Hardwood


The Hollow Chisel Mortiser (HCM)

Machine Engineering Auto part Titanium Metal


Is a bench top model and has a capacity up to 5/8 or 16mm chisels

Accessories

The chisel set consists of five HC 1/4 inch, 5/16 inch, 3/8 inch, 1/2 inch and 5/8 inch
The sharpening Kit comprises of a HSS six flute cone reamer and four guide pins 1/4 inch, 5/16 inch, 3/8 inch, and 1/2 inch only. Notice the absence of a 5/8 guide.

Hollow Chisel Mortiser (HCM) Tune Up Part 3

OK now on with the tune up, first up thanks for all the feedback and suggestions provided regarding the chisel will benefit by sharpening the bevel.

My attempts to buy a diamond cone sharpening set locally were still unsuccessful so I settled for a HSS version. Personally I think this type falls short of the diamond set mainly because of the inability to sharpen a 5/8 chisel where as the diamond set by design covers all the sizes up to 5/8 I am assuming, (some are only 13mm or ½ inch.
And the quality of finish of diamonds as opposed to the chattering HSS fluted type.

Wood Musical instrument accessory Rectangle Musical instrument String instrument accessory


HMC Bevel Angles.

An interesting exercise if nothing else was an attempt to find out before I started what the bevel angle for the cutting edge of a HMC at manufacture was.
There seems to be no design specifications provided.

HMC Sharpening kit Bevel Angles.
I can advise that the cones are 60 degrees so I am assuming the Hollow chisels are all the same, however regardless they are going to end up at 60 deg by default after sharpening.

Out of interest I decided to determine the angle differences, so by applying a marker pen on the cutting surface and doing an initial grind it will hopefully show the result, This is what I found.

Wood Gas Adhesive Adhesive tape Electric blue


It appears to be the same angle as the cutter.

Gas Wood Auto part Machine Metal


After sharpening the Chisel there will be a slight burr left on the four outside edges. Use this burr as a guide as to how accurately you held the cutter on the chisel.
What you should have is a burr of equal proportions on all four sides.

Notice in my photo the left spur has some dye left on it. As small as it was there was a noticeable difference in the burr profile on this corner, so I repeated the process.

Recommended practices for carrying out this procedure vary considerably from: use only a drill press and vice, to to using a wood brace, then by hand only, and finally with a battery drill.

All very confusing if you are doing it for the first time but be guided first up by the suppliers recommendations then modify it to suit the best result.

To remove the burrs from the outside of the chisel draw the chisel across the diamond stone, Job complete!!

Additional sharpening

The cones come in two grits, Coarse 220 and fine 600 the application in sequence is required to achieve a satisfactory result.

There is also thought to filing grooves in the corners of the chisel to assist in chip removal. This was certainly something I was not aware of so I spent some time investigating. There is actually evidence of a patent back in 1929 covering this.

Have a look at the diagram and in particular fig 7.

Font Parallel Rectangle Pattern Engineering


So was it still done today was the next question, with some more research I found an article in the Popular Woodworking Magazine Blog HCM Tune up and again there was a reference to it.

"The last step is to file a notch on each of the inside corners with a triangular file. I wish I could take credit for thinking of this, but it is a feature found on some chisels. I first saw it on the premium chisel set from Lee Valley. Depending on the hardness of the chisel, this filing may take a while, but I think the results are worth it".

This provides some more clearance between the outside of the auger bit and the inside of the chisel. I also think it makes it easier to plunge the corners of the chisel into the wood to start the cut. The benefits of doing this aren't as great as the benefits of smoothing the outside of the chisel, but it doesn't hurt, and in some species of wood may really help.

Also within the Lee Valley site accompanying a set of HCs there was some more info and reason for doing the activity was also documented.

Relieving Inside Corners

Gesture Drinkware Art Font Drawing


Even with a finely honed mortising bit you may find that the chisel requires a lot of pressure to penetrate into the wood; particularly hardwood. This can be remedied somewhat by relieving the inside corners of the bit to reduce the wedging action of the chips. This is done with a small, very fine-cut square or round file. Clamp the mortise bit in a vise and stroke toward the inside, removing no more material than illustrated.

The next step was to attempt this relief corner work, with my chisels and available tools I was not able to successfully do it so I ceased work on it. I might add trying to do this on chisles smaller than 5/16 would be almost impossibe at home, in a engineering workshop well maybe.
But its there for information.
Dont forget, as an aside you may also be able to use the sharpener to resharpen your wad cutters too, sure beats trying keep the outside surface concentric.

HMC Sharpening the Auger.

To sharpen the HC auger a flat or triangular file is used much the same as a conventional wood auger.

The HCM auger differs slightly from convention as it only has one cutting edge and cutting spur, in most cases, but it appears from research thet you can buy twin cutters at least however I was unable to find any twin cutter and twin spur versions in my investigations.

Cutting surfaces

One cutting edge and spur

Tool Office supplies Font Household hardware Nickel


Two cutting edges
Legend has it that if there is two cutting edges it's of an English origin where as if its only one cutter the origin is Taiwanese or Japanese.

I will leave you to form your own opinion here!

No examples two cutting spurs were to be found.

To sharpen the auger simply file the cutting edges on the inside , do not touch the outer edges of auger anywhere.

Exception
Polishing the Chisel and Auger.

No doubt you are aware all HCM bits require honing of the business end and sharpening to suit each users requirements before use. This is a one off step which pays dividends later in the life of the HMC.

How I did mine.


Bicycle part Nickel Auto part Metal Font


Tool Office supplies Nickel Gas Ratchet


Font Asphalt Metal Fashion accessory Titanium


I used a fine linisher belt to remove the grinding marks on the chisel body then a Scotch Brite belt to final polish everything I used the Scotch Brite belt only to polish the auger chip extractors up to the cutting surface.

Inspect closely the Point of the Auger
This is an addition point worth mentioning as I had a auger with an off centre filed point. It has a run out of 2mm. this may be of no consequence but reinforces the fact the chisel should always be aligned on the outer edge of the chisel and not the centre point.

Ruler Light Black Wood Office ruler


Black Wood Plant Wall Font


Wood Ruler Office ruler Font Tints and shades


Find an HC you want but the shank is too long? They are designed that way simply cut it to length with a hack saw they are soft in this area.

Use of Dry Lubricant.
I did some tests with dry lubricant and it certainly made the extraction easier

Food Wood Ingredient Staple food Recipe


Other modifications.

I also added a strip of cloth backed grit to the clamp face. I considered doing the back surface of the vice as well but decided against it due to the fact I use the vertical surface for initial setup alignment of the chisel.

Comfort Wood Art Carmine Automotive design


Conclusion:
Was it all worth it
This is now up to the user to decide, in my opinion polishing is a must.
If you are not convienced check out the photo of the chisel at the Pt 1 of this series.

Polishing after the square surface on the chisel is purely cosmetic but that was the width of the belt so it got done by default.
A Hollow Chisel Mortiser would have to be the least used tools I have, and is only good for a single use, making square holes. It requires meticulous set up to produce quality work, it's a heavy brute, but when set up and used correctly an irreplaceable tool if you do a lot of mortices.
Subjectively would I buy another one, the answer would have to be no in my work application.
Dont get me wrong its now a great little machine, and the more I use it the more I like it.
Having a chuck it could suffice for a single speed drill press.
Very interesting…

Thank you for posting it…
 

Attachments

#92 ·
Drilling Dimples or more correctly Pips in wood

In my Woodworking adventures I have been attempting to cut Dimples or Pips in wood.

What I have discovered may be of interest.

The various methods I used.

1 . Router cove bit in a Radial Arm Drill.

This worked to a varing degree and gave equally varing results.
However a drill press cannot obtain the RPM expected for routing good results.

2. Hand held die grinder and carbide bit
Fail (see the raggedy yellow pip)
Too hard to hold in position



3. Die grinder in drill Press
Produced reasonable results but again does not now spin at the accepted speed.
As a result it tends to clog dead center and burns the wood.



3 HSS rotary rasps
Fail, again
constantly clogged with wood
almost useless, sorry about that supplier!

So how do you do it with acceptable results.

Suggestion 1.
Use a INSTY BIT (If you can buy one)



Suggestion 2.
Bench mount somehow a carbide die grinder in a drill press, or a dremmel.

Suggestion 3.
Grind a twist drill with a curved cutting edge, or

Suggestion 4
And possibly the most appropiate these days
Use a CNC
 

Attachments

#93 ·
Drilling Dimples or more correctly Pips in wood

In my Woodworking adventures I have been attempting to cut Dimples or Pips in wood.

What I have discovered may be of interest.

The various methods I used.

1 . Router cove bit in a Radial Arm Drill.

This worked to a varing degree and gave equally varing results.
However a drill press cannot obtain the RPM expected for routing good results.

2. Hand held die grinder and carbide bit
Fail (see the raggedy yellow pip)
Too hard to hold in position

Brown Rectangle Wood Material property Tints and shades


3. Die grinder in drill Press
Produced reasonable results but again does not now spin at the accepted speed.
As a result it tends to clog dead center and burns the wood.

Automotive tire Camera accessory Camera lens Audio equipment Cameras & optics


3 HSS rotary rasps
Fail, again
constantly clogged with wood
almost useless, sorry about that supplier!

So how do you do it with acceptable results.

Suggestion 1.
Use a INSTY BIT (If you can buy one)

Microphone Audio equipment Font Electronic device Hammer drill


Suggestion 2.
Bench mount somehow a carbide die grinder in a drill press, or a dremmel.

Suggestion 3.
Grind a twist drill with a curved cutting edge, or

Suggestion 4
And possibly the most appropiate these days
Use a CNC
Yep, to really get it RIGHT… The CNC approach would be painless!

Use a computer program to draw what you want, with dots where you want them… Print it to actual size.

Find someone with a CNC setup & ask if it would be hard to do… (really not very hard)...

BINGO… You supply the wood & he supplies the CNC… You're done…

Then the other challenge will be to paint the dots without messing up everything else…

Just some thoughts of how it may be done…
Finish the wood in it's final stain, lacquer, etc., etc. ... Let it cure really good…
Cover the whole thing with a thin good coat of wax…
CNC the Dots into the wood through the wax…
Just slop the Paint enamel over & into all of the dots & finish with lacquer… Let dry really good.
Using Paint Thinner, wipe off all of the wax… lightly sand with a high grit to get it all smooth…
Touch up, etc. as desired…
Cut it all up to get the Dominos… Finish the edges…
All done.

I probably would try the Drill press method & make it work... wax a little around each dimple, drill them setting up stops that would cover all dimples in that position, setup for another set of dimples & drill'em, etc.
With a fine point brush, paint the dimples & let dry real good.
Sand it all smooth for final finishing.
Dab wax into all of the dimples very carefully…
Stain & finish the remaining wood… etc. etc.

Just blabbing off the top of my head… Hope you get some ideas… That work…
 

Attachments

#97 ·
Yonico Router bits

This blog although factual is technically incorrect see Yonico Router bits Technical information

Somebody really goofed with these, apart from the sucker who bought them.

I saw these on ebay

Font Screenshot Web page Brand Logo


I have some Yonico bits so I was not too concerned, but I should have been starting from the heading.
5x Rail & stile half round, I am not sure how you would use them for Rail & Stile work however the are certainly half round.
Somebody has corrected the heading later in the body of the advertisment to:-
Half round bull nose Set.

The "Set" comes in five individual containers, as shown in the supporting photos
All the containers have no markings whatsoever displayed on them so I set about measuring them so I could mark the containers.
I should never have done that!
I made a total of six measurements, A the shank. B the bearing. C the top edge of the cutter. D1 and D2 the distance of each half round sections, and E the bottom edge of the cutter.
This is what I found,

Handwriting Font Parallel Rectangle Drawing


Apart from the advert stating diameter sizes in two places the sizes are actually the radius measurements.
Secondly there is a variation in the measurements of at least 3mm in Dimension C and dimension E considering they, (in my mind) should be parallel not having a difference of about 3mm its very poor workmanship.

Now looking at the second picture
Product Font Cylinder Auto part Drinkware


The shank is shown to be 1.1cm or 7/16 not half an inch thankfully its wrong also.

In my measurements on the left is their reported dimensions (2cm to 3.5cm) on top of each bit Of which I an not really concered as to their width but again would assume both should be at least parallel to each other.
See the refelected actual measurenets in Columns C and E.

The D1 D2 measurements should be 19.05,15.8, 12.7. 9.5. and 6.35
the 2.2cm or 3/8 should be 9.5225mm not 8mm otherwise its a ring in!

I am sure somebody has made some real klinkers here or am I just too fussy?

Some return correspondance

An up date, I would have thought the 1.1 would be explained away as a typo too,

received a email back saying 1.1cm is 1/2"
from memory 1.1cm is

0.437 expressed as a decimal or
7/16 expressed as afraction or
11.112 if expressed as mm

I also checked one of the other Yonico Bullnose bits I have

Measurement 1

Gas Machine Cylinder Metal Fixture


Measurement 2

Gas Machine Cylinder Temperature Event


So confirming the two surfaces are in fact parallel I checked some other non Yonico bulllnose bits still the same parallel surfaces C and E.

So I sent off another email asking about the 8mm as opposed to 9.5mm?

I dont hold too higher expectations as to getting some factual replies but will keep you posted.
 

Attachments

#98 ·
Yonico Router bits

This blog although factual is technically incorrect see Yonico Router bits Technical information

Somebody really goofed with these, apart from the sucker who bought them.

I saw these on ebay

Font Screenshot Web page Brand Logo


I have some Yonico bits so I was not too concerned, but I should have been starting from the heading.
5x Rail & stile half round, I am not sure how you would use them for Rail & Stile work however the are certainly half round.
Somebody has corrected the heading later in the body of the advertisment to:-
Half round bull nose Set.

The "Set" comes in five individual containers, as shown in the supporting photos
All the containers have no markings whatsoever displayed on them so I set about measuring them so I could mark the containers.
I should never have done that!
I made a total of six measurements, A the shank. B the bearing. C the top edge of the cutter. D1 and D2 the distance of each half round sections, and E the bottom edge of the cutter.
This is what I found,

Handwriting Font Parallel Rectangle Drawing


Apart from the advert stating diameter sizes in two places the sizes are actually the radius measurements.
Secondly there is a variation in the measurements of at least 3mm in Dimension C and dimension E considering they, (in my mind) should be parallel not having a difference of about 3mm its very poor workmanship.

Now looking at the second picture
Product Font Cylinder Auto part Drinkware


The shank is shown to be 1.1cm or 7/16 not half an inch thankfully its wrong also.

In my measurements on the left is their reported dimensions (2cm to 3.5cm) on top of each bit Of which I an not really concered as to their width but again would assume both should be at least parallel to each other.
See the refelected actual measurenets in Columns C and E.

The D1 D2 measurements should be 19.05,15.8, 12.7. 9.5. and 6.35
the 2.2cm or 3/8 should be 9.5225mm not 8mm otherwise its a ring in!

I am sure somebody has made some real klinkers here or am I just too fussy?

Some return correspondance

An up date, I would have thought the 1.1 would be explained away as a typo too,

received a email back saying 1.1cm is 1/2"
from memory 1.1cm is

0.437 expressed as a decimal or
7/16 expressed as afraction or
11.112 if expressed as mm

I also checked one of the other Yonico Bullnose bits I have

Measurement 1

Gas Machine Cylinder Metal Fixture


Measurement 2

Gas Machine Cylinder Temperature Event


So confirming the two surfaces are in fact parallel I checked some other non Yonico bulllnose bits still the same parallel surfaces C and E.

So I sent off another email asking about the 8mm as opposed to 9.5mm?

I dont hold too higher expectations as to getting some factual replies but will keep you posted.
The important dimensions are what they should be. A will fit a 1/2" chuck D1 & D2 are the same. E and C would only matter if material thickness is at or slightly over D and if so should go up in size anyway.

Yes you may be too fussy.
 

Attachments

#101 ·
Yonico router Bits Technical information

After posting the blog on the Yonico Bullnose router bits I did some extensive reseach on why this "manufacturing Goof" could happen.

As it turns out I recieved physically exactly what was advertised, albeit description errors which could be explained away in "translation errors" or possibly more correctly possibly lack of technical knowledge on the matter. (My self included)

So what did I find?

1 Router bits with this type of profile come in two forms or styles.

The first being what we all possibly know as a double bead or a Bullnose Router bit. or simply a Bull nose bit.
A Fairly straight forward Bit having a required radius and two parallel and equal width "wings"

The Double Bead or Bullnose bit

Gas Wood Rectangle Titanium Wood stain


The second is a Corner Beading Router bit
This has the required radius again but the "wings are not parallel or equal in width.
The exact reason for this is unknown to me at this stage and I am awaiting an answer

The Corner Beading Bit

Gas Auto part Font Cylinder Wood


Both these images are courtesy of CMT.]

Now the Yonico sets

The Bead and Bull nose Bits code 13515

Rectangle Font Line Parallel Cylinder


and The Corner beading bits Code 13516

Font Line Parallel Rectangle Circle


In conclusion two completely different bits two completely different applications

I will add another blog after I use them.
 

Attachments

#102 ·
Yonico router Bits Technical information

After posting the blog on the Yonico Bullnose router bits I did some extensive reseach on why this "manufacturing Goof" could happen.

As it turns out I recieved physically exactly what was advertised, albeit description errors which could be explained away in "translation errors" or possibly more correctly possibly lack of technical knowledge on the matter. (My self included)

So what did I find?

1 Router bits with this type of profile come in two forms or styles.

The first being what we all possibly know as a double bead or a Bullnose Router bit. or simply a Bull nose bit.
A Fairly straight forward Bit having a required radius and two parallel and equal width "wings"

The Double Bead or Bullnose bit

Gas Wood Rectangle Titanium Wood stain


The second is a Corner Beading Router bit
This has the required radius again but the "wings are not parallel or equal in width.
The exact reason for this is unknown to me at this stage and I am awaiting an answer

The Corner Beading Bit

Gas Auto part Font Cylinder Wood


Both these images are courtesy of CMT.]

Now the Yonico sets

The Bead and Bull nose Bits code 13515

Rectangle Font Line Parallel Cylinder


and The Corner beading bits Code 13516

Font Line Parallel Rectangle Circle


In conclusion two completely different bits two completely different applications

I will add another blog after I use them.
I learned something I didn't know before. Thanks, Rob. Now, would you mind 'splainin' the variations on the orgee bit? You know. There's a Roman orgee, and something that's not a Roman orgee. I know that none of the variations involve wearing a toga. Oh. there's something called a "Reverse orgee. I'm not sure I even want to know what that one is.
 

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