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Tool Tip #12: Liquid Hide Glue expired no good Pt 2 Stress test results

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Blog entry by robscastle posted 07-24-2014 06:11 AM 760 reads 0 times favorited 3 comments Add to Favorites Watch
« Part 11: Liquid Hide Glue expired no good? Pt 1 Part 12 of Tool Tip series Part 13: Cutting roof ridge capping on the Table Saw »

OK its 24 hr plus and the LHG test results are in.

Shear Test Method:
All I did was hold each of the ends and pull them apart in line with the glue joint, very scientific.
However there were some surprising results observed.

LHG Test piece 1. Medium amount of glue


Results:

The A sample broke shearing wood and glue
The B sample broke very easly and indicated a glue failure, no surprises there.

Observations:
As expected the B sample glue failed and failed very early in relation to effort required to break it.
The A sample held quite well and exibited some glue and timber failure.

Conclusion:
Throw the Sample B LHG bottle in the bin.

LHG Test piece 2. an additional amount of glue used.


Results:

Both the A and B sample broke equally, and exibited similar failure characteristics intrestingly enough the B sample looked no different to the A sample this time.

Observations:
Upon closer examation of the test samples there is clear evidence that a majority of the glue has failed in both tests.
There is also evidence of wood failure however this wood failure is of a smaller percentage as opposed to glue failure.

Conclusion:
Throw both LHG Bottles in the bin.


LHG Test piece 3 . A heavy spread application of glue used,as per manufacturers recommendations.

Results:
The B sample broke however I was unable to break the A sample in my bare hands. (standard test procedure)

Observations:
There is no doubt the additional amount of glue contributed to the strength of the joint.
The length of the test samples are slightly shorter than those in test 1 and 2 but I dont think this produced a major difference in results.
Sample B exibited a majority of glue failure again, there is some timber failure but again its a small percentage compared to that of the glue joint.
Using a “heavy Application”of glue contributed to its strength.
I dont believe anything else would be achieved in breaking the A sample just for the test as it would be a different breaking strain required.

Conclusion:
Throw the Sample B LHG bottle in the bin, and be very suspect of sample A.

The Setting Test

The A Sample

The B Sample

Results:
The glue formed a tack free to touch within 30minutes.
Overnight the glue had set without any more spread
I pushed my finger into both samples as a test, there was little or no depression on Sample A however Sample B showed a slight depression indicating the glue had not set correctly

Conclusion:
Throw the Sample B LHG bottle in the bin.

Findings:
LHG has from the manufacturer a shelf life of 12 months.
This is effectively an unopened bottle condition.
Application of LHG should be confined to specific projects and strict observation of the life after opening.
Both samples although each were out of date anyway exibited a high percentage of glue failure and should be discarded.

LHG should be purchased for specific task/project then discarded if not completly used in the imediate future.
This in itself makes the glue possibly a very expensive comodity if not all used at once.

-- Regards Robert



3 comments so far

View stefang's profile

stefang

13024 posts in 1988 days


#1 posted 07-24-2014 08:27 AM

Very interesting Robert. I will stick with my homemade version of LHG since it is well preserved with salt and therefore has no expiry date.

Your results showing that more glue equals more strength is contrary to my own results, so I will test to see if I get the same results again with my homemade LHG.

Of course for someone who uses a lot of glue more or less continually the commercial LHG would still be a good option, especially if his glue ups require a long open time, but maybe not for those who don’t.

I love this kind of testing because while it is not scientific they do probably reflect what actually goes on in our shops.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

7718 posts in 2706 days


#2 posted 07-24-2014 04:54 PM

Very interesting!

Can you narrow the Failed tests resulting in Discards down to Specific Time Frames, etc.?

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

View robscastle's profile

robscastle

1699 posts in 858 days


#3 posted 07-25-2014 08:59 AM

Joe,

I trolled through my invoices but could not find definative time I made purchases in relation to LHG, so:

From what I can work out the following is reasonably accurate

I made an original purchase about 2009 of Titebond liquid Hide glue

I did some experimental test but never posted them, They were a disaster.
Read as, I did no know what I was doing.

This glue then expired 2010. I didnt have the opportunity to use it again until 2013 then I was working on my Curved Front Box and found it had expired so I bought another bottle which must have been late 2013 or early 2014.

I did some tests then to determine if the glue was OK but again did not post the results.

I was only after reading Stefangs posts on his home brew glue I again showed interest in LHG.

I know Shipwright, Paul has posted some blogs on both LHG and HHG work in which he has detailed very accurately the requirements to be able to use and manage HHG.

I would consider myself as an amature in this field hence the excitment in using and testing glues of which some would consider Ho hum.

-- Regards Robert

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