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Tool Tip #32: Sell it and buy a new one

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Blog entry by robscastle posted 12-22-2017 11:56 PM 926 reads 0 times favorited 15 comments Add to Favorites Watch
« Part 31: Using the Standard Gifkins Dovetail Jig with timber wider than the recommended 310mm Part 32 of Tool Tip series Part 33: Adjusting your Irwin square if its a bit loose »

This blog is the result of GR8hunters post Inventors?? i need help!!

When I read his call for help it related to a Drill press he had without any table positioning mechanism, meaning the rack and pinion used to raise and lower the table.

There were a series of replies all having merit as to how to overcome the problem but involved retrofitting the Drill Press.

In my usual 36 grit reply I indicated the only solution was to update in the way of buying a new Drill press, and as it was almost Christmas it would be a great time to do it and added we didnt need to be imbuggered with dinosaur machines in this stage of our lives, as we were also getting old and could do nothing about it however our tools we could.

Anyway from down south came a duck echo saying that the crank was just as bad, so I accepted a task to conduct some scientific experiments to justify my abrasive comment.

This morning at the expence of other woodworking activites this testing was conducted.

The test involved measuring the amount of force needed to crank the Drill press table up and down.

I used some very accurate scientific equipment to verify the results I obtained and in the conclusion provided the uncertantity of measurements.

The test involved the following equipment
1 x radial arm drill purchased from carba tech specifically for the purpose
1 x Chinese high accuracy Luggage scale
1 x spray can of Smiths provided food safe lubricant
1 x chunk of plywood preped for making a aftermarket handwheel.
1 x test weight of some calibrated wood offcuts to simulated a job on the table.

The enviromental conditions were as below.
Bloody hot even at 0900 AM
No wind to interfer with the readings.

The test situation.
A general view of the clutter

Some more close up details of the mechanism

I conducted two tests one with the mechanisn not lubricated and one after applying a measured amount of lubrication to the rack and pinion mechanism.

Test One No lube.

Going up

Going down

Test two lubrication applied

Going up

Going down

Conclusion:

Going up: It took about 2kgs of horizontal force to turn the handle to raise the table.
Applying lub made no value added difference.

Going down: It took about 85 gms to force to turn the handle to lower the table.
Applying Lub reduced this figure to about 4 gms.

Is lubricating the mechanism worthwhile no just makes a mess and is ineffective at the greatest load, that of elevating the table.

Uncertanity of measurements: Dead accurate mate.

Alternatives to reduce manual effort.

The crank handle could be lengthened to reduce the effort in fact a wheel the size of a cars steering wheel or even a ships wheel (which I assume shipwright has on his drill press) could be added.

The Prototype wheel I prepared

I could supply blanks of this wheel and with a business arrangment in place have them customised to suit your needs, that would be with the skills assistants of the likes of htl, crowie, little black duck, or dutchy and all the other LJs who make fantastic looking wheels

Thanks for letting me waste your time !!

-- Regards Rob



15 comments so far

View pottz's profile

pottz

2957 posts in 1099 days


#1 posted 12-23-2017 12:40 AM

huh-sorry buddy I just got home from the company Christmas party and -well,ill just take your word for it-LOL! hell just buy a new one!

-- sawdust the bigger the pile the bigger my smile-larry,so cal.

View htl's profile

htl

4050 posts in 1274 days


#2 posted 12-23-2017 04:39 AM

I coulda used a lift at least two times today and like GR#8 my SS doesn’t have one but buy a new one I think not at this time, but I do need to come up with something. LOL
I new indexer will fix it, no not this time will have to come up with something else. lol

-- An Index Of My Model making Blogs here on Lumber Jocks.. http://lumberjocks.com/htl/blog/116729

View stefang's profile

stefang

15881 posts in 3448 days


#3 posted 12-23-2017 10:05 AM

Very good and scientific test Rob, but I am wondering if another type of lubrication might have worked better. Have you tried soap? I think too that the Australian heat probably expanded the metal enough to slightly freeze up the mechanism. I’m also thinking about the cranking speed and if it could have any effect. A drill press in a colder country might work better (have you thought about moving to Norway?) and speeding up the cranking action could provide enough momentum to keep the thing going, sort of like the flywheel principal. I am also wondering if the machine was perfectly level as weight distribution might also be a factor. More importantly, did you check that the gear was perfectly vertical on the column? A twisted one looks better, but doesn’t work quite as well.

I bought a floor model drill press about 17 years ago for the equivalent of about US$500. I found out after the guarantee expired that it ran slightly eccentric. After being mad about this for a couple of years I realized this flaw actually suited my style of woodworking pretty well.

Some years after that I had the great idea to use my DP to clamp something between the chuck and table (watch it guys I know what you are thinking!). This worked very well until the rack gear broke. I got it welded and it worked for awhile longer but eventually gave out again. I could probably get a new rack gear, but I did a shop fix, and no I did not use duct tape! This was done by strapping the gear to the column tube with a hose clamp, which means of course that I can’t use the entire height of the press. No matter, I have never needed it anyway and I still have lots of travel on it.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

View LittleBlackDuck's profile

LittleBlackDuck

1962 posts in 935 days


#4 posted 12-23-2017 11:29 AM

rc, I’m a powderpuff to you as the heaviest grit I use is 80 (except when I need 40 and then I just rip my 80 in half) .

Unfortunately I don’t fly (airplane food scares the bjesus out of me) so I do not have the luxury of a set of baggage scales (or for you importers… Chinese Luggage ones) so I just have to resort to other scientific measurements and algorythms.

I bought the handle on the right,

(for my previous Carba-Tec variable speed DP) and used it on my new DP to replace the one on the left.
The old handle also permitted the retro fitting of my old DP tabletop with minimal surgery,

Now talking, in what may sound like Mandarin, about “forces, levers, jemmys and fulchrums”, under ambient workshop lighting, the one on the right only turns two and one quarter of my knuckles white while the other manages three…. as us scientists say… QEDQuite Expected Deprivation (of blood).

Now what has this contributed to GR8 buying a new DP… absolutely nothing… but he probably won’t read this reply and feel guilty… and as all the other scientists say… QEDQuit Extending Disallusionment.

As for me… QED... Quiesce Exageration for Distilation (or better known as Christmas Cheer).

-- If your first cut is too short... Take the second cut from the longer end... LBD

View LittleBlackDuck's profile

LittleBlackDuck

1962 posts in 935 days


#5 posted 12-23-2017 11:31 AM



huh-sorry buddy I just got home from the company Christmas party …
- pottz
pottzy, I hear rumours that you have 10 jobs… which party did you return from?

-- If your first cut is too short... Take the second cut from the longer end... LBD

View robscastle's profile

robscastle

5244 posts in 2318 days


#6 posted 12-23-2017 11:38 AM

StefanG
Oh its great to have you back on deck again you have been missed I tell you…have you seen my Wanted poster on you yet? tee hee! I have been driving everybody mad asking about you I even asked Dutchy if he dropped in to check on you at his last visit.

LBD
36 Grit in the drum sander good for removing paint and surface finishes not something you would just get a little friction burn from if you accidently touched it.

I think I have the same after market table only mine does not have that fancy gold fence.
You can actually see it attached to the post with velcro tape

Whats that little socket drive doing on the back of your table?

Otherwise was any part of my experiments of any value to you, ...is your crank very hard to turn?

-- Regards Rob

View LittleBlackDuck's profile

LittleBlackDuck

1962 posts in 935 days


#7 posted 12-23-2017 01:02 PM

The socket is a 3/8” (bloody yank stuff) bolt I use to tighten the DP table. It’s a shade less in dia. than the original, so I can reverse fit a “loose” bolt and use a ratchet on the working side. It has a piece of wood that “captivates” the nut on the opposite end so I can ratchet from the near side. Actually I BS’d there, I think its a 12mm bolt vs a 1/2” original… forget the maths… the concepts the same, just go down a thread.

If you can’t afford a GOLD fence… go to uni and do a Midas course. Anyway… I got that fence before people became Incra friendly and it was still bargain basement (benefit of impulsive buys).

I thought about the crank... then I got a head slap from the missus for my attitude. Unfortunately a good working diameter may be too large… Perhaps if I make the circle 12” in one direction and 6” the other it may fit in the confined space… hmm…hmm… OK, un-hmm!.
Then again whoa, of I/we could “spindle” it away from the column… I/we could have a working solution… Problem is, the “spindle” would need the robustness of metal and I’m a pussyfoot timber man.

-- If your first cut is too short... Take the second cut from the longer end... LBD

View stefang's profile

stefang

15881 posts in 3448 days


#8 posted 12-23-2017 02:16 PM

I’m more used to not-wanted posters being circulated about me Rob.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

View pottz's profile

pottz

2957 posts in 1099 days


#9 posted 12-23-2017 08:22 PM


huh-sorry buddy I just got home from the company Christmas party …
- pottz

pottzy, I hear rumours that you have 10 jobs… which party did you return from?

- LittleBlackDuck

only rumors ducky,hell I barely work the one job I do have.why do you think I have so much time to b-s with you guys-lol.

-- sawdust the bigger the pile the bigger my smile-larry,so cal.

View robscastle's profile

robscastle

5244 posts in 2318 days


#10 posted 12-23-2017 09:16 PM

Oh yes Incra should have realised, looks good, Uni … touch’e

Hey a question how much help did you give Dutchy with the VW Bulli Combi plans?

and wait there is more.

I have wanted to build a Regent Double Decker bus for a few years now as I have fond memories of my grandmother taking me to the beach when I was in Sydney on holidays. I have some pictures and a line drawing but I have never attempted the project as I wanted it to look as close as possible to original and wanted it to be so big kids could put “stuff” inside it (and for me so could see what I was doing)

If this is this something of interest to you I could PM you (make that email as there are pictures and PDFs) with the information I have so far so you could take a gander at it.

-- Regards Rob

View LittleBlackDuck's profile

LittleBlackDuck

1962 posts in 935 days


#11 posted 12-24-2017 01:20 AM


I m more used to not-wanted posters being circulated about me Rob.

- stefang


Personally stefang, I keep an eye out for wanted posters… pray they misspelled my name and my portrait is out of focus….

fortunately the cops think I’m a goose!


... I have so much time to b-s with you guys-lol.

- pottz


Oh glory me… total disillusionment… self flagellation… forehead banging against the wailing wall for the next two weeks…

pottzy, I say this with a bowed head and as a penitent man… To think I took you seriously and forever emblazed in my heart every word you professed… in the past…


Hey a question how much help did you give Dutchy with the VW Bulli Combi plans?
...
- robscastle

Bugger all, in a way. He provided the .DWG file which had all the measurements and profiles. All I did was convert it (trace over it and did a few push/pulls… in SketchUp speak) from 2D to 3D… and some help from my Sketch-O-Matic.

As you may have guessed, I’m not a mechanical techo… I can follow plans but those need to be fairly comprehensive as my interpolation skills are somewhat limited when it comes to non-risqué shapes/parts/forms.

Now having said that, I can always have a sex change and take a gander, however, don’t be upset if I find it a tad hard and reverse the operation and duck for cover.

PS. Didn’t realise Dutchy released the Buli without my dust... But then again I have a visit from my ex-missus that has sent my brain cells into self-destruct, PC keyboard into malfunction and the alcohol profit by my local publican soar…. (and probably me looking for a good surgeon if she happens to read this addendum).

-- If your first cut is too short... Take the second cut from the longer end... LBD

View robscastle's profile

robscastle

5244 posts in 2318 days


#12 posted 12-24-2017 01:28 AM

OK got it somethng for later I guess, now on another matter did you see my drivel about Rockwell at Lillydale Sheep road and the Marondah highway ?

Its too hot here to do anything outside just yet so jst goofing about on the PC.

What about Dutch’s VW Kombi pretty amazing work eh! I saw one sold at Shannons for over $60K

Speaking of risque did you see Hunter71 carving? its a wonder the front wheel stays on the ground!

-- Regards Rob

View htl's profile

htl

4050 posts in 1274 days


#13 posted 12-24-2017 01:37 AM

What about Dutch s VW Kombi pretty amazing work eh! I saw one sold at Shannons for over $60K

- robscastle

robscastle?
A model or the real thing, Oooo!!!

-- An Index Of My Model making Blogs here on Lumber Jocks.. http://lumberjocks.com/htl/blog/116729

View robscastle's profile

robscastle

5244 posts in 2318 days


#14 posted 12-24-2017 01:44 AM

It was the real deal ! and obviously in very good condition I will see if Ican find it again if you are interested in taking a look , I was amazed at the prices they pull these days.

-- Regards Rob

View Duffy69's profile

Duffy69

1 post in 268 days


#15 posted 12-24-2017 02:35 AM

Do what you have to do the best you can ,with what you have to do it with !

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