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There IS a learning curve, and it does have some limitations that can be overcome

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Review by Tennessee posted 03-17-2017 01:52 PM 4019 views 0 times favorited 15 comments Add to Favorites Watch
There IS a learning curve, and it does have some limitations that can be overcome There IS a learning curve, and it does have some limitations that can be overcome There IS a learning curve, and it does have some limitations that can be overcome Click the pictures to enlarge them

This is a copy/paste of the review I wrote on this system on Amazon with a very few changes/updates. (Kind of an Amazon review junkie)

I finally popped for a wet stone water system, after doing the high speed grinding thing with both 8” grinders and a large Harbor Freight unit, then went to the variable speed grinder with the Wolverine jig system for my lathe tools. Good, but not scary sharp and they still dulled fast on hard wood. I needed something that would put a world-class edge on my tools.
None of them can do what this thing can do, and no, I don’t believe you have to own the “T” machine, unless you are a sharpening addict, or do sharpening for a living. If you plan on sharpening on a daily basis for more than an hour, buy the “T”. For most of us who do woodworking or wood lathe work, this is just what the doctor ordered. I turn this on maybe two-three times a week, so it fits me just fine.

I do NOT know if Grizzly is discontinuing these, both the 8” and 10” are on sale now, but the attachment kits are not. I picked up the base unit, (10”), for $149. March 2017.

For the record, I ordered the unit from Grizzly, (even though these are listed on Amazon), since I wanted the direct connection to Grizzly if anything wrong came up. There have been some complaints that Grizzly will tell you that “It’s an Amazon Problem” if you order it from Amazon. Amazon is a bit easier to send back, but not for general support. On the other hand, there have been stories of “restocking fees” from people who had to return direct to Grizzly. I have had nothing but good luck with Grizzly over the years, so who knows. This is my third major tool from Grizzly, a planer and bandsaw being the other two.

I ordered not only the T10010ANV 10”, I also ordered the T10023 attachment kit, the T10024 attachment kit, and an Accu-Sharp chisel and plane iron unit with the attachment block for 12MM bar, which is what almost all of these units use as a support bar. Total investment, just under $400, about what a plain empty “T” 8” would have been with zero jigs. For my money, I got almost every jig you would need, save for maybe Irish Grind gouges.

Pros:
1, The unit does what it says it will do. The stone is fairly true out of the box, but any out of round can be conquered with the dresser stone provided with the T10024 attachment kit. Yes, I know they do not give you a stone with the standard T10010ANV, but mine was not that out of round. I have not dressed it to date, and it is providing extremely sharp tools. I think it was about .3MM out of round measuring with the bar almost touching the stone. Side to side, yes it shows some visible wobble, but I don’t plan on sharpening anything on the side of the stone and even if I did, I would have to stay very close to the outside diameter where the water rides. So in my mind, that does not count.
2. Despite what some people say, the leather is about 3-4MM thick, and is plenty thick for what you are going to do with it. I used a very light, almost lighter than 3-in-1 oil to fully saturate the leather stropping wheel. They tell you not to get it to where it drips, but I had a paper cloth folded up underneath it and just kept the oil coming until the paper was pretty saturated. At that point the leather was nice and supple. I applied the honing paste and it went on fine, and the leather performs perfectly. Three days later, it is still supple and good, even though I have not done any work on it. I think the oil is the key. Use more than they suggest. The leather should lay down and be almost like a smooth surface after oil and honing paste. It works great.
KEY: Turtle Wax Polishing Compound in the green can seems to be the EXACT same thing as the honing paste, and is about $4-5 for a 10.5 oz can, WAY cheaper than buying another tube or small tin of honing paste. I am using it right now, and it seems to work just fine and the metal seems to polish and comes off at the same rate.
3. The unit comes well packed, and I did not have any problems. Grizzly has attacked some problems with packaging in the past, and now the unit comes with not only the stone off and surrounded by styrofoam, but it also comes with the motor strapped to the unit for shipment, and a Styrofoam pad interference to also hold it. There is even an extra notice in the instructions on these packaging additions. UPS dropped these boxes on my porch, and no damage anywhere.
4. Although there is a learning curve, even on plain flat chisels and plane irons, it is fairly easy to use since it is virtually impossible to burn a blade on this thing. About all you can do is put on the wrong edge, which is always correctable. After the initial soaking up of water by the stone, and refilling the tray, a continuous film of cool water floats over the stone, preventing any heat from developing on your tool.
5. It takes off steel faster than you might think, out of the box. Just be aware of that. And it will put a slight bevel in your chisels, due to the diameter of the stone, but after stropping, you will easily cut arm hair with your newly sharpened chisel, which total sharpening should take no more than a couple minutes. Say goodbye to your old diamond dressing stone, and sandpaper on granite blocks.

Cons:
1. I did not like the way the bar adjusts up and down. It is only a coarse adjustment. My answer to that was to look in my tap and die set to see what a 12MM chromed bar would tap at, and 1/2”X20TPI was a good choice. I used the bar closest to the stone and put 1/2”X20TPI threads on it, which took a while since I had to remove the handles of my tap wrench every time I came around the other bar. Persistence paid off, and although the tap did not put in threads that were totally deep, the Stainless Steel nuts I bought at my local hardware store for .45 cents each work great, allowing me to have a “micro” adjustment. Now, I hold on to my jig and tool, and if not at the correct height or angle, just spin the nut either up or down and I get there in short order. The “T” machine boasts of this micro adjustment, and it was easy to do on the Grizzly, and made it a much better machine. Sanding the bar after tapping will eliminate any burrs, without removing the threads, and all is superb.
(SEE MY PIC OF THIS)
2. You have to realize this is a two sided machine. You will have to move the bar to another location to do stropping, and that is just the way it is. Every model I looked at save one, The Wen which features a reversing switch, is like this. Maybe others have a reversing switch, but I did not find one save the Wen. Since the Wen has a reversing switch, after I bought the Grizzly I realized that I could have worked from one side only if I had a reversing switch! (To be honest though, I would be hard pressed to buy the Wen, considering the reviews it plays to.) But now I want a reversing switch since that is MUCH easier than going around the machine, or in my case, since my shop is so small, I have to reverse the machine on its stand to get at the back. Oh well…
3. The attachment kits…Oh, the attachment kits. The T10023 is not bad. I like the knife and scissors jigs. Lots of heavy duty stuff. The T10024 is like something a person who had never spent any time doing anything mechanical devised. I still cannot figure out how I am supposed to do any kind of a woodturning tool in that round jig they give you, except skew chisels. It does come with the dresser stone, which is nice, but I think I wasted some real money on the T10024 #2 attachment kit. It basically seems to be a skew sharpening kit, but I have a lot more profiles than that! I will keep trying. As a sidenote, the bolt they give you to attach the round jig to the mounting plate, (for degreed adjustments), that bolt does not fit. Not long enough. You will have to go buy the right M6X1.0 bolt to put the round jig to the bar mounting plate…I settled on a M6X1.0X20MM Phillips head I had in a metric screw assortment in the shop. And as you move the round jig back and forth on the flat holder, the bolt will come loose.
4. You WILL need magnets in the tray, (not included), and no, you cannot remove a tray full of water from the unit without spilling some of the water…the stone will suck up most of your first tray of water. You refill, and all looks well. Then you stop work, and the stone dispenses about 50% of the water in the stone back into the tray. The magnets will be down there, (if you added them), full of metal. You need to get them out, and probably change the water. Pulling out the tray, if it is fairly full, (which it will be), is a fruitless exercise since you have to tilt it to get it from under the stone, and spilling water is going to happen. You will spill, so put it somewhere where spilled water will not hurt.

Overall, I think this is a wonderful option to the more expensive “T” unit, considering my usage. Yes, I will use it a lot initially, until all my tools are scary sharp and only touch-ups are needed. Once achieved, this will pay for itself in faster work, more accurate work, and a happy woodworker.
And your wife will thank you when you learn to sharpen all her knives with the T10023 attachment kit. (Without taking off too much metal!) It will produce scary sharp knives, at least for the kitchen.
ONE STAR OFF FOR THE CONS, BUT NONE OF THEM ARE FATAL. I like the machine…

-- Tsunami Guitars and Custom Woodworking, Cleveland, TN




View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2547 posts in 2327 days



15 comments so far

View JAY Made's profile

JAY Made

201 posts in 1857 days


#1 posted 03-17-2017 05:57 PM

Nice review

-- We all should push ourselves to learn new skills.

View cmmyakman's profile

cmmyakman

125 posts in 2468 days


#2 posted 03-17-2017 06:55 PM

Great review. I don’t have one, but it sounds like from reading your review that you might think about a big bucket under your bench with a large diameter (so you don’t have to wait very long) plastic tube for siphoning off the water filled container when you want to clean it out. That would take out most of the water and you wouldn’t ever have a spill. Dump your big bucket every once in a while, assuming evaporation doesn’t beat you to it.

-- You can't fail if you don't give up.

View DocSavage45's profile

DocSavage45

8318 posts in 2655 days


#3 posted 03-17-2017 07:14 PM

Hey Paul,

Nice toy err tool! LOL! Good luck with it.

-- Cau Haus Designs, Thomas J. Tieffenbacher

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

991 posts in 1807 days


#4 posted 03-18-2017 12:31 PM

I’m toying with the idea of attaching mine to a lazy susan, with some way of locking it down so it doesn’t spin. Then I could just spin the machine in place when I wanted to use the other side.

Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2547 posts in 2327 days


#5 posted 03-18-2017 01:16 PM

Brian:
I keep a lazy susan in my shop for spraying smaller items. I had thought the same thing. At this point, it is a PITA to reverse since I cannot put it in a spot where I can walk around 360’. I just don’t have the room.

-- Tsunami Guitars and Custom Woodworking, Cleveland, TN

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

4412 posts in 3056 days


#6 posted 03-18-2017 05:20 PM

Since I also do machining, I have to sharpen tool bits and cutters all the time. The way I do it is “offhand”, meaning no jigs or tool rests, just a bare wheel on the end of a motor shaft. It takes practice to get the hang of it, but it is a skill worth developing.

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2547 posts in 2327 days


#7 posted 03-19-2017 12:59 PM

MrRon: I have a number of older books on woodturning, maybe six or seven. Virtually every one of these “pros” maintain their tools by hand, and only one suggested what was at that time a basic tilting flat small table that was mounted in front of the wheel and hand made to boot.

With all that being said, my personal feeling is although I do some touch-up on a 1X30 Harbor Freight sander, when I do need a decent edge, I find that a jig gets me there faster and safer than I can do by hand. Maybe if I would have learned to hand grind when I was in my 40’s, but now, going on 68 I’ll take the jigs.

-- Tsunami Guitars and Custom Woodworking, Cleveland, TN

View chem's profile

chem

30 posts in 1417 days


#8 posted 03-21-2017 02:48 AM

Very nice review. I have the Tormek which works much the same way. I did not buy it because of the jigs or the ability to make a nice edge without burning. I bought it because it is zero dust. I was sharpening my chisels to do some turning and my air quality monitor went through the roof (much worse than when sanding on the lathe). Once I realized what those particles were I went out the next day and bought a Tormek.

-- chemist by day, woodworker time permitting

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2547 posts in 2327 days


#9 posted 03-21-2017 08:30 PM

chem:
The interesting thing about this is when you dress the wheel, I believe you dress it dry, so all that stone dust will still go airborne.
It only takes one time to realize you really need to mask up when you dress any kind of grinding wheel. The first time I dressed the wheel on my variable speed grinder with the Wolverine jig on it, I could not run away fast enough, grabbing a filter mask on the way by. I should have known, (and do know, doggone it), having been around wheels most of my engineering life. but almost all of that work was done by my crew.

-- Tsunami Guitars and Custom Woodworking, Cleveland, TN

View chem's profile

chem

30 posts in 1417 days


#10 posted 03-21-2017 08:36 PM

On the Tormek you dress it wet. No dust. No mask. No problem.

-- chemist by day, woodworker time permitting

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2547 posts in 2327 days


#11 posted 03-21-2017 11:43 PM

I might be wrong – have to go look at the instructions…

-- Tsunami Guitars and Custom Woodworking, Cleveland, TN

View JRAP's profile

JRAP

64 posts in 1762 days


#12 posted 03-22-2017 09:46 PM

I have the same machine. Haven’t even unboxed it yet. This review is VERY helpful though. I’ll look into some sort of lazy susan setup from the get-go. Thanks a ton.

-- -- Jim, Cumberland,RI -- Life is all the other stuff you do when you're not in the shop. - http://www.woodshopshed.com

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

1393 posts in 1802 days


#13 posted 03-23-2017 12:11 PM

I’ve had a T10010 for about 5 years. Still works well. The leather wheel has held up fine. Haven’t threaded the tool bar, but it would help speed things up. The T10023 jig kit is decent and I use parts of it, but the T10024 is fairly useless. The Tormek SVD-186 gouge jig is the way to go for gouges – does a great job. The angle setter and gouge setting jigs from Tormek are worth it. I use the Grizzly flat tool plate and blade jig. It is great for re-sharpening gouges, but not for reshaping where a lot of material is removed. I use a Tormek BGM-100 and a dry grinder for that, and w/o changing anything go to the wet grinder to finish.

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2547 posts in 2327 days


#14 posted 03-26-2017 01:05 PM

I just received the Triton TWSTGJ Gouge Jig in the mail from Amazon for $32.50. One third the price of the Tormek 186.
No instructions, (the main complaint), but a nice video posted by the Record wet sharpening system people on YouTube that features this jig.
It looks like it will work just fine, and I did find seven reviews on Amazon.UK that say its not too bad.
We’ll see, I’ll review it after I get a chance to use it.

-- Tsunami Guitars and Custom Woodworking, Cleveland, TN

View CyberDyneSystems's profile

CyberDyneSystems

251 posts in 2001 days


#15 posted 03-30-2017 06:45 PM

Thanks for the review.

I picked up a Jet version of this about 6 years ago on clearance at Woodcraft, and have enjoyed it. Some of the jigs I purchased afterwards are the Tormek brand, and I can see the improved design and quality control.

RE: Swapping the bar guide location, In all honesty I never read the instructions, so I have been freehanding the stropping on the leather wheel from day one. I can’t imagine any real benefit to stropping with a guide? Maybe I;’m missing something? Advantages to freehand are, no need to spin or swap anything. At least now I understand why some of the controls are on the other side! :)

-- Without the wood, it's just working

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