I love my Router Boss!

Cool! Another LumberJock with a Router Boss.

Glad you like it. Did you order the new Mortise Table and the X-axis DRO?

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

You bet I did. Gotta have the DRO. I didn’t get the vertical DRO though. I prefer to use brass setup blocks. I did get the precision stops, spiral bits, clamps and centering bit.
I’ve visited Franks woodshop. He’s the guy that does the videos for Lewis. Frank’s a great guy. We messed around in his shop for a few hours before I even realize 1 hour had passed.

It’s good that you’re close to frank. He’s got a good handle on the machine and can show you the cool stuff.

A few weeks ago I invited a fellow to come look at mine. Thought i ought to cut a dovetail joint to prove I could still do it before he showed up. I haven’t had much time in the shop since about January so I figured I’d be a bit rusty. I set up the machine to cut a quick dovetail joint and didn’t even bother with a test cut. The thing came out perfectly.

I need to make some time to get out there and use it more. I need to use all of my tools more.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

Ok..can anyone give me a link of where u buy these things? I am interested in getting one myself

-- Randall Child

Check out The Craftsman Gallery You of all people should have one considering your handle.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

I posted a link in my review. Get yourself an R.B.

Got it.. that’s great!! I love it..

-- Randall Child

The only thing worse than having a router boss and not being able to use it is having a WoodRat and not having time to use it…worse because I have had it longer (before the Boss was made).

-- jstegall

John, I had a Rat for about 7 or 8 years before I got the Router Boss.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

I looked at the videos and what I did not see was a way of putting mortise in the end of a rail.
I am thinking of 2 or 3 foot rail or longer.

Can the RB do this?

Virgil

Sure. It can put a mortise in the end of a rail. Since it mounts on the wall the limitation would be the height at which it is mounted. If you were thinking of mortising the end of a bed rail or something else large, though, you’d probably be better off with a hand held router and a mortising jig.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

Sounds great Dave.

I thing 4 feet would be the longest I would need for what I do.
I was thinking of balusters and porch rails.

Thanks.

Virgil

Virgil, I just went out and measured mine. There’s 47-1/2” under the base plate to the floor. I could have mounted it higher and would have if I was going to do longer stuff. My WoodRat was mounted at the same height and between the two machines, I have about 8 or 9 years of use. It was not a problem for me but then I never did balusters or porch rails.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

DaveR, what do you think the differences are? between the Rat and the Boss?

-- jstegall

Looks like some happy owners.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

John, there are a number of differences between the two machines. There’s no clamp in the “marker” position. Instead of marking up the machine face, you either reference off of cursors and the analog scales on the front or use the optional DRO. there are also story boards that can be used if you prefer to work to pencil marks. You still use the cursors though.

Instead of setting a pivot point for cutting dovetail pins, the angles are set with the green “wings” The geometry for cutting the pins is the same but because of the way the wings work, you can use them for cutting the sockets and then the pins with no joggle in the joint which is a common problem with the Rat. There’s also no need to figure a correction factor for setting up for the pins like you need to do for the button setting on the Rat.

The RB has an aluminum base plate which is stiffer than the phenolic plate on the Rat so the plate won’t sag as you slide the router out. The router plate is transparent so you can see through it more easily. It also contains some white LEDs to illuminate the work and some cross hairs to guide your cut. the router plate is drilled for the DW625, 621 and other DeWalt routers with the same mounting hole arrangement. All you need to do is screw the router on. there’s an adaptor plate for non-DeWalt routers. It is designed to make centering the router on it dead simple.

The extrusion is machined so the front face and top are square to each other. This means you don’t have to shim the base plate to get it square to the front of the extrusion.

The sliding parts for the bar make it possible to trim out any and all sloppiness in the sliding rail. It won’t sag forward under the weight of the work. The sliding bar is limited in its travel left to right on the Router Boss. This is to prevent the bar from sagging down when cranked too far to one side. To make up for the limitation in travel, there are optional longer sliding bars available. I have the middle sized one which has about the same capacity as the Rat. That travel limitation is also needed because the reader for the DRO is behind the sliding bar at the center of the machine.

The accessory Mortise Table (which is also drilled to fit on the WoodRat) is made so the table and the spine mount up square to each other. There’s a hole in the table so that you could clamp a door rail up through to cut tenons. this means that rails and stiles are set up in the same plane and you can use essentially the same set up with the Precision Stops and gauge bars for cutting tenons, mortises and even the groove for the panel on frame and panel doors. The horizontal table is drilled for stop pins at common angles and the table mounts vertically as well. this makes cutting spline slots in miters a no brainer.

There’s also a multi-angle work holder. Better dust collection, a nicer crank, optional DRO for the vertical and in/out directions, a router table accessory with adjustable fences.

That ought to get you started anyway.

I liked my WoodRat a lot despite its problems. It was always my go to machine for a lot of things I did in my shop. I learned as you probably have, John, how to work around many of those things like the wobbly carriage, the unsquare extrusion and the button setting inaccuracy. A machine like this is nice because it is always put away yet it is always ready to go.

The Router Boss has addressed those problems and eliminated them and I think it is a better machine.

Both machines do some things that no one else is doing. I think having the router right side up has a lot of advantages. Climb cuts are safe with these machines and the way to go for cutting tenons because you don’t get the break out you get with normal cutting. There is absolutely no limitation for cutting dovetails. You can use any bit angle you want which isn’t true of even the Leigh jigs and you can cut dovetails on wider stock on the Rat and Boss than you can with the Leigh jig.

As a side note, I’ve read a number of comments claiming that the Router Boss is just a copy of the WoodRat but that’s not accurate. I’ve even seem some rather acrimonious remarks about the Router Boss by WoodRat owners. The machines may, at first glance look similar but there are a lot of differences. Curiously, I’ve never seen a single complaint about all the manufacturers who have bandsaws that look almost identical to the old Delta 14” saws from years ago. There are many machines that look identical and are more alike than the Rat and Router Boss but no one ever says a thing.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

Thanks for the comprehensive comparisons Dave. That gives me the info I wanted. I have an extensive cabinet makeover coming up and I had been considering a Router Boss. I use the Hitachi now (close out special at Lowes) but I like the dust collection chute on the DeWalt. I agree about the “look alike” band saws. Mine is so old that it still says Rockwall.
I have seen the arguments and it reminds me of the Festool-EZ Smart owners going back and forth.

Thanks again DaveR

-- jstegall

John, it is my pleasure. Am I correct that you already have a WoodRat?

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

Yes, I do have the WR but I am seriously considering the RB. I have been checking out Aldel’s site and I like what I see.

-- jstegall

Doesn’t anyone have problems in terms how long it takes to set this machine up? In the demonstration video they had a couple of different machines so it was hard to tell how long it would take to switch between setups. That always makes me nervous. And with all of the accessories it looks like this machine is over $1000. I would be interested to hear about this.

Tim

-- www.responsetolight.com - A Woodworking & Renovation Blog & www.craftedbytim.com - I make. You buy.

Tim, it doesn’t take that long to set up the machine to do the various things. In my shop it would usually take more time to clear a space for something like the Leigh jig than it takes to set up the Router Boss.

As to the price consider what you would spend for, say, the Leigh D4R, FMT Each with all the accessories you need to cut any dovetail joint and mortise and tenon joint. How much have you got invested in that stuff?

Now consider the other things you can do with the Router Boss that you can’t do with those machines.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

Dave’s right. But it’s good question to ask. I contemplated it many times too. And there are times where I wish I didn’t have to change to this attachment or that one. But then I realize what that would be, a cnc machine and I think those start at $5,000.

I just came in from cutting a sliding dovetail on the Boss. Yes, I’m actually using it. I suppose I have about 10 minutes in the set up and the joint fit the first time. I’m going out to cut another one right now.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

Given the responses, I’ll have to reconsider this. I’m a sucker for these kind of jigs (Dowelmax, Jessem Zip Slot, Akeda dovetail, Woodline Dadomax ect.) but as I mentioned it seemed overly complicated for the price. Thanks for the review and comments!

-- www.responsetolight.com - A Woodworking & Renovation Blog & www.craftedbytim.com - I make. You buy.

I have a WoodRat and really enjoy it. I have not used it to it’s full potential but like Dave says, it is the go to machine.

For what it costs it is a good deal. It is accurate and it allows me to mill material in a way that makes more sense for many projects.

I could see that the improvements in the Router Boss would be worth having, but my wife would notice a repurchase and that could be the death of me.

I use two DeWalt routers with the plunge bars set up on their own phenolic base. I change the base with router instead of changing bits. The routers keep their settings and this is valuable to me as a business.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

The Router Boss should be viewed in a different way than all woodworking jigs. First of all the RB is not a jig. In order to expand it’s potention it should be viewed as a major component of the shop like the tablesaw, bandsaw and router table. It’s not obvious to the beginner all of the things you can do on the tablesaw. At very first glance it doesn’t look like it can do anything other than cut wood into pieces just like the bandsaw. But when you get to know the tool and what you can do with it you’re only limited by how far your creativity and imagination can carry you.
Has anyone ever tried to use Photoshop without learning how to use it first? I have, and I wasn’t instantly aware of all of it’s capabilities. Not even close. Also, once you have learned Photoshop it won’t finish a project by itself. It’s still up to the user to decide when and how to use it’s many wonderful tools to create something great. It’s the same with the Router Boss.

Rick, you make some good points.

Todd, I can understand your reluctance to buy a Router Boss. Good idea to keep two routers set up and switch between them.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

Rick’s analogy to the photoshop expresses my experience – with both. Well said Rick!

Here you can see the first set of dovetails cut on the WoodRat. You can also see the base that I made for it.

I do not have room to leave it set-up on the wall and I like having the router cutter at this height to see. The base makes it mobile but it is a hog! Notice that I created an area on each side to clamp it down.

I really like the idea of LED lights to illuminate the cutting area. Sometimes I have to clamp on a lamp, as I get older I notice that the need for light is greater.

I was quite impressed with the first fitting.

I still cut my mortises with the mortising machine but I cut the tenons with the WoodRat. This is before the walls got sheetrock in my shop.

Another Perfect Fit!

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

Good images, Todd. I like your bench mount for the Rat.

Good go for your first dovetail joint. Must have used a 14° bit, huh? Notice the little joggle between the two parts? That’s common on the WoodRat. Doesn’t happen on the Router Boss, though.

Yes, the LEDs are handy for lighting things up. I used to have a hard time getting light in under the router with the WoodRat. I still use a light over the Router Boss but with the transparent router plate, the light shines through.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

I want the Router Boss!

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

Well, maybe you can sell the Rat.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

I can’t remember what bit I used, it was a couple of years ago that I did that.

One thing I have not been please with is that the applied stickers for the angles get caught by the router plate and start coming up. As soon as the edge starts coming up it is all over.

I was thinking that they should make them laser engraved or something.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

Sell the Rat? Hmmm… that could work.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

I don’t really know of many woodworkers do you? Is there a way to find a community of woodworkers and reach them?

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

We should start a web site designed to do that. Oh man. This is gonna be big!

I suppose we could have some sort of forum. :-D

I know what you mean about the labels under the spirals. They aren’t much use anyway so I would just remove them. I always used an angle gauge to set the dovetail angle and brought the spirals up tight to the router plate.

I think one big problem with the Rat is the applied scales. The ones under the spirals were originally intended to be useful. The early version of the manual included spiral setting along with button settings. It turned out that the spiral setting numbers weren’t correct anyway.

The scales for the button setting and the label on the Centre Plate were not applied accurately either. I had two different Centre Plates and, with the same Router Plate, one of them required I add 2.4mm to the button setting. The other one was slightly more than 6mm. I know of users who had zero correction and some that had to subtract from the calculated setting

I had made the suggestion to Martin that he either laser etch or even machine cut the scales instead of using the stickers. That way every one of them would be same. He gave me a sort of thanks-for-the-idea-but-I’m-not-interested reply.

I think the WoodRat is a great idea but the execution of it isn’t quite there. With time you can learn to work around the shortcomings but I think a lot of folks wouldn’t be bothered to do that. Especially for what they cost now.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

Dave – It is good to know that you took the scales off. I had considered it because I was setting the angles manually anyway.

All of the bits and manual references were in euro mm’s and something did not reconcile 100% into inches for the setup. It may have been due to the other issues that you stated.

Other than that, I have found it to be an incredible milling machine. I can realize and appreciate the improvements on the Router Boss just from the description you have provided.

I think a lot of guys are turned off by the price, but they do not realize what the machine is capable of. I believe that it is incorrectly compared to dovetail and fingerjoint jigs. But it is not a jig. It is a milling machine.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

Todd, I agree with you about the classification of the machine as a jig. I think a lot of people would say, “That’s a lot of money for a dovetail jig.” It’s so much more than that, though.

As far as dovetails go, one thing I’ve come to appreciate, first with the Rat and then the Router Boss, is that cutting them is much closer to hand cutting in concept than it is to following a template with the router jigs out there.

Out of curiosity, Todd, what sort of correction do you have to add/subtract to make the dovetail pins the right size?

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

OK, I am really embarrassed here, but I just make the adjustments manually as I see them.

I also am caught a bit because I quit dragging it back and forth from Montana to Ohio when I was working out there. I bought an Akeda dovetail jig at the Woodcraft Store in Columbus, OH.

There were a couple of benefits to this; it wasn’t as difficult to pack and travel with and the repeatability is of some value.

The last couple of projects that required dovetails I used the Akeda here in my the shop. The shelf that I keep the WoodRat on has a lot of lumber and sheet goods stacked in front of it for a big project that I am neck deep in.

But I love my Rat nonetheless.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

I understand traveling with equipment.Smaller would be easier to deal with.

If you ever get back to cutting DTs with the Rat, let me know. I’ll walk you through figuring the correction factor you need to apply to the calculated button setting so you don’t have the trial and error of getting the pins the right width. I made an Excel-based calculator some time ago to aid in calculating button settings and it can deal with the correction factor so you don’t have to remember it.

On the Router Boss of course, there’s no need for the correction factor.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

The funny thing is that When I bought the Akeda I compared it to the WoodRat’s ability and freedom to make variably spaced dovetails.

With the Akeda I have a blend of fixed repeatability and a minor loss of freedom for spacing dovetails in comparison to the WR.

With the Akeda material dimensions have to fall on 1/8 increments but with the WR I can totally ignore fixed dimensions.

I notice on the Akeda that as the template bushings get beat up, the accuracy for fit is lost. This of course is inherent to any brand that uses template bushings.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

I know what you mean.

The material dimension thing is an important consideration on most dovetail jigs. The other thing is the bit choice. I prefer the slender HSS dovetail bits. To me dovetail joints cut with carbide bits look clunky and don’t have a lot of visual appeal to me. I know that HSS bits probably wouldn’t stand up to large scale production work but for the home shop user, they can’t be beat.

I really dislike the dovetail joints that look like zipper teeth, too. If my choice was to use a comb-type dovetail jig/template or some other joint, I’d pick a different joint every time. There’s no point making an ugly joint if it is going to be exposed.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

Here is how I set up the WoodRat; I pull it out and the routers too, I install the bits for the joint, I fiddle with it a bit – and it works.

I could not give a class on it. I use it intuitively, sort of like my Mac.

I agree on the zipper teeth jigs.

I had wondered about the HSS dovetail bits. They definitely have a look that I prefer, but I have yet to purchase any.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

I only use the carbide dovetail bit I own for sliding dovetails.

The intuition thing is good but a few simple steps done once takes out at least some of the fiddling.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

Well I haven’t put my dovetail bits to a ton of use but I got the HSS dovetail bits from the Craftsman Gallery. I’m told that they produce a sharper and cleaner cut when they are kept sharpened. Plus they’re much easier to sharpen because they is no carbide. I use this little guy http://www.thecraftsmangallery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=W/PROD/S/32-100 with a few passes on each side of my dovetail bit. How often I do that depends on how often I use it. But after a few passes my bit is as sharp as the day I got it. I don’t know if you can do that with carbide bits as easily.
At least this is the method I view as the best at this moment.

I did get carbide spiral bits because I can’t sharpen those.

Those little diamond cards are good for honing the HSS bits. Make sure you only hone the flat side and not the beveled side. I’ve got some WoodRat striaght bits in HSS, too. They make nice shavings instead of dust. Most of the time I use carbide spiral bits though.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

Rick did you get the Mortise Table, too?

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

Oh ya. That’s one of the things I liked most about the RB. Now I can clamp up a decorative box on the mortise table and precisly cut the mortises for any kind of hinge. The quadrant hinges are the most difficult but they’re so much easier and safer to do with the RB and the mortise table. I can also do inlay soooooo easy with it. Just secure my box in place, set my stops for length and depth while using the digital readout as well and they’re perfect. I don’t have to set anything down onto a moving bit and place markings on my fence so that I know where to stop.

That’s great to hear. You ought to take some pictures of your set up and send them to Lewis. I bet he’d like to see them.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

I would have better pictures on here right now but I have a small shop and at the moment I’m still waiting for my cast iron table replacement for my bandsaw and the replacement circuit board for my jet air filter. Both of those are taking up valuable floor space in the middle of my shop and my planer is parked in front of my router boss right now. I notice that not many people have pictures of their shop on LJ’s but I intend to once I get some things out of the way.

Hopefully that’s soon.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

Excellent information Guys .
This thread is worth a lot for us novices.
“times they are a changin”

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Do any of you use a router other than the Dewalt on the RBoss? I have a Bosch 1617 plunge router that I’m attaching to the Boss. I’ve modified the transition plate to attach to my router and now all i have to do is buy the proper length screws to be able to attach the transition plate and router to the RBoss plate.

Ted

Ted, I own the woodrat rather than the RBoss. I use my Bosch 1613 (light duty) and my Hitachi M12V which works just fine. I bought the base for the Hitachi and I cannot remember if I bought a special base for the Bosch or just modified one.
If yours works, then you did the right thing.
I had thought of buying the Boss but if I retire, I probably will pass.
john

-- jstegall

As John wrote, you shouldn’t have any problems with the router you have. I use the DeWalt DW625 but that’s because I bought it when I had the WoodRat. The DW625 probably is the best suited of the plunge routers because you can remove the factory handles and attach the Plunge Assist bar but certainly it isn’t a requirement.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

thanks guys,,, i just purchased some shorter 6mm screws to attach my Bosch 1617 to the Boss and it works pretty well. The only issue I see is dealing with the depth adjustment gauge which is located in the back. Now I’ll need to perform a bunch of test runs to get the hang of this awesome tool.

Ted