NOTHING but issues and poor service on two different machines

Wow….that REALLY sucks! Thanks for the warning! Please keep us informed as to how this develops.

-- Don, Pittsburgh

WOW, I personally have never been all that impressed with Laguna Tools but I’ve never heard this bad of a horror story. I came close to this many years ago with an old Delta Table Saw but Delta not only replaced the saw right away, but they sent me a FREE Beismeyer Fence upgrade for free. Since then, Delta & Powermatic is all I’ve bought for my shop when needing big equiptment. Then again, I don’t give them that many times and options to screw me.Hope it works out in the end for you

John

-- http://www.webshots.com/user/jahness

How exciting for Laguna, you gave them ONE STAR !

-- Odie, Confucius say, "He who laughs at one's self is BUTT of joke". http://woodstermangotwood.blogspot.com/ (my funny blog)

Believe me if I could hae given them no stars I would have

And by the way I am sure that there will be those individuals who post about not being too judgmental or not having enough proof or giving them time- as far as proof I have several months worth of email correspondense and pictures, and as far as time how long sould I give them?

If you in fact paid by credit card you should contact your credit card agency. If it was a major credit card ie. Visa or Mastercard they have the power to get you a refund and force Laguna to take their defective machinery back at their expense.

CharleyL

I know a guy that thinks we are supposed to accept defective equipment from the manufacturers !! He says that I complained too much . My point is that when I buy something NEW , it should look new and work like it is new ! If I wanted to take chances , I would only shop at garage sales and flea markets !
I’m not one of those sue happy idiots , but with the amount of money and time spent and lost by you , I think you may want to speak with a lawyer to see where you stand . Sounds to me like Laguna doesn’t plan on being in business very long. Best wishes .

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .

their was a huge thread about a jock who had problems with a major tool company and their service just a few months ago. it went on so long and the comments got so serious, a company rep signed in to give the company’s side in the dispute.
the customer should always be right, and if you are not satisfied, then they did not deliver the item you thought you were buying.
From reading your story, i know i would want my money back.(a company will never pay for lost material or contracts without a civil suit)
and i would encourage everyone against their product.
maybe you could get some work done with a box store tablesaw? lots of guys do it.
best of luck

-- Junior -Quality is never an accident-it is the reward for the effort involved.

and luguna spends millions on advertisment and can’t get a single customer the equiprment he PAID for. have you written the ceo? does he know your getting screwed? he pays people to keep problems like this off his desk and off the web. i would get on the phone and stay there untill he took my call. that worked when i had a problem with sears.. after 2 months, 5 minutes talking to the ceo, the problem was fixed

-- It's not a sickness, i can stop buying tools anytime.

In recent years I started looking at “higher end” equipment and Laguna was one of the companies included in my research. Your story is definitely the worst I have heard but not the first, it is among many.

I have crossed any potential purchase of Laguna off my list a long time ago. I am sorry that you are going through all of this. I can understand how devastating it is to business.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/6628
This is the link to Nancy’s Laguna issues . Perhaps you can contact her as to the final outcome in her battle against Laguna.

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .

As a suggestion why don’t you contact Torben Helshoj. Torben is a member here and happens to be the company President. I am sure he would appreciate hearing about your problem(s).

-- With God's help all things are possible- even woodworking. Woodworking is not just a hobby, it is an (expletive deleted) expensive hobby.

I called Laguna Tools and told them my fellow Lumberjock was very disappointed with the company’s service and posted a review of their poor service on LJ. And, as a result, I would support a fellow woodworker by NOT considering buying a Laguna Tool in the future until he posted a very favorable and quick customer service outcome.

The lady said they were already aware of LJ and the post and were working hard to make it right (Evidently, other LJ’s have taken the same action, applying a little “consumer pressure”).

Anyway, if you’d like to call Laguna, call the company direct at 949-474-1200 and press “0” for a live person.

LumberJocks supporting LumberJocks…

-- Randy, Tupelo, MS ~ May I become more like the Master Carpenter every day.

Thanks for all the great responses Concerning the credit card company doing anything. I was told about two months ago that they would begin the process of trying to reimberse me the money but since it was the item that I requested just not in the condition that I expected it in it was going to take at least a month so I proceeded to try to resolve the issue with Laguna and let the credit card company (Bank of America) do there research. I received a letter from them stating that I have to write a letter with a lot of details (most of which I had already done) and I quote, “a signed second opinion letter from another MERCHANT on business letterhead indicating specifically each item listed on the original invoice that is defective or not as described.” Now where am I going to find someone to do that? This is a credit card that has a $21,000 limit and that I have never before disputed a charge on and have always paid on time. I also have charged and paid off about $60,000 last year. I received a follow up letter from them saying they are no longer persuing my refund.
I am sick of this kind of big business and the goverment is the only one keeping these undeserving crooks in business. If they were left to there own divises they would have fallen already.

Concerning emailing the CEO- I did that about a month to a month and a half into this fiasco and I have not heard a word from him. I am sure he is too busy with the paople who have already made a public posting of there frustrations. I would have posted sooner but, as always, I tried to give them the benefit of the doubt and, as always, they did not desrve it.

Concerning Nancy’s post- I am beyond that point I already gave them multiple opportunities to do right by me.

Believe me I am well aquanted with how to get a hold of them and they are well aquanted with me. I really would prefer not to talk to them in private but to have any one of them discuss this issue and there resolve openly on this forum.

“(Bank of America)” I guess you’re a glutton for punishment !! I told them that they need to remove Amerca from their title name as it is a disgrace to the country ! Nothing but bad results from BoA after years of being loyal to them. Never again !

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .

I think that DaveR really brought up a thought that I did not express and that is this;

What kind of company waits until there is a public outcry before they make things right? This kind of customer service is simply not acceptable.

I tend to stick with purchasing name brand, new tools and the main reason is that I expect warranty and service for these purchases.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

I was just looking into Lagunas’ 8 inch jointer the other day and now I guess I’ll have to pass it over . Thank goodness ( and Martin ) for our site and the LJs that review items on it .

Scott Bryan ,no offense to you , but regarding Torben Helshoj , he isn’t actually a member here , he just signed on to counter Nancys’ claim against Laguna .That was 56 + days ago and he hasn’t been back here since then .
No projects , no comments = not a LumberJock.

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .

haven’t we been through this only 2 months ago?

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

I have a feeling we will be through this two months from now

I was thinking maybe I should state what I would concider a reasonable resolution (since they can’t seem to come up with anything on there own): I would like an immediate and full refund of all charges concerning the purchase of these two machines (including shipping) so that I have the money to buy a machine(s) that works, they, at their expense can come to Maryland and remove these machines, an appology on this forum for the inferior products and customer service provided to not only me but, also the scores of others who have posted or not posted there issues, and a reasonable compensation in the amount of $20,000 for the time and money lost due to the issues that I have faced (I am sure if they sacrificed a few advertisements or sponsorships it would be more than enough to cover my losses and would keep them from litigation).
I would think it a wise thing at this point for them to employ a few of us lumberjocks to inspect and or try out there equiptment so that they can make the necessary changes in order stay in business and regain the confidense of there current and future customers. Unless of coarse they do not want to stay in business?

To the people at Laguna. I am in the process of equiping a brand new cabinet shop. All companies can have a lemon come off there assembly line. It is what they do to correct the problem that counts. I had a fein shop vac that was bad and they overnighted me a new one. Thats called customer service! It appears you do not know what that is. For that reason I would not even consider buying one of your products.

-- Mc Bridge Cabinets, Iowa

All this from a ” High Price” company and we complain about Craftsman, of which I have a shop full that works.
Sorry for your problems ARaisch and wish your where closer to me, you would be welcome to use my shop anytime.

-- Guy Kroll

Frankly this thread is painful to read and I’m not even a Laguna customer. I had considered buy some serious equipment from them, requested their DVD’s and got them. They sent them out right away and kept sending me emails. I guess their sales force is more eager to get customers than their service department is to KEEP THEM.

Thanks for the post. LAGUNA tools is now officially off my LIST of potential suppliers.

-- I love the smell of sawdust in the morning....

They have attempted to contact me again via phone which tells me they want nothing to do with a public reconciliation. Either that or they are trying to make a private deal to avoid further public scrutiny. I will tell them this- your timeframe for private resolution has expired and unfortunately I have been taken advantage of one too many times in life. I am making it my position to hold Laguna Tools publically accountable and, as such I will keep this and other posts active and reply as often as I can until a response is made on this forum! If Laguna wishes to redeem themselves before a large organization of it’s comsumers I will give them that opportunity. I understand if they do not want to talk money in front of the world but, there is alot more to discuss here than that. Humanity diserves to be treated better than the way you and companies like you have been teating us. If this forum blocks me I will set up a web site against Laguna Tools! Its time we take back this country from greed!

Did you talk to them? Any news? It took all I had not to start hitting that broken, worthless machine in my shop with a sledgehammer.

Oh, by the way, fellow woodworkers, I am the friend that has suffered right along side ARaisch in all this. I can attest to everything he has suffered through from the staff at Laguna. From failures to return phone calls, to just having no idea what the machine is supposed to do, to not even knowing what supposed to be included with the machine. Ever question asked was dealt with in the same way, “I will have to check on that and call you back.” That’s after having to make numerous phone calls to get in touch with anyone there.

The whole thing has been horrifyingly painful. How does a company stay in business treating people this way? i can tell you all, and Laguna as well, that I will tell EVERYONE that I know to stay far away from Laguna. This includes numerous friends in the woodworking business, as well as every related supplier in my area. And I will be right there with my friend in the blogs and on the internet to get that word out.

And, I just heard from him, that they offered to ship a new motor out for the giant paperweight sitting in my shop that goes by the name Laguna Pro 2700 Panel Saw. And just who is going to install it? considering the cast iron top will have to be removed, and god knows what else. I am not laying under or over that machine doing their work for them. So, LAGUNA, I ask you, what flight will your repair tech(s) be on? I am 5 minutes from BWI airport. I would be happy to pick them up and bring them over to perform the needed repairs. While they are here, they can dismantle and crate up that giant catastrophe as it shall not be living in my shop, eating all my food and drinking all the beer.

It started drinking our beer!

In response to what has been discussed throughout this thread:

We are fully aware that the first machine received by Mr. Raisch was not acceptable in fit and finish. We are very sorry that he was not satisfied with the machine and we offered to exchange the machine or issue a refund. The exchange was discussed and both parties came to the agreement of upgrading to the 9’ panel saw. We offered this upgrade at a highly discounted price. The offer was taken and the new machine was shipped. We were happy to hear that Adam was very satisfied with the quality of the new machine and answered the questions he had at the time. Just yesterday it was brought to our attention that an issue was developing in the motor. We consulted with Mr. Raisch as to what it could be and promised to resolve the issue. We thought it would be good to talk with the in house electrical engineer and discuss where the origin of the problem might be. Since this time, just a few hours, this thread was created. We are naturally very concerned with what has been discussed and have attempted to resolve the issue several times today without any response from Mr. Raisch. It is our job to support our machines and we fully intend to do so. We want to keep all of our customers satisfied and will to do what it takes to get the saw running properly. Mr. Raisch, you can contact us at any time to resolve this issue, whether it be a repair or refund.

Thank you,
Laguna Tools

Well, its good to see that someone at Laguna has decided to take part in these discussions. But, let’s get a few things straight. I know the above statement was probably scrubbed and approved by corporate counsel, therefore to prevent any of the fine people on LJ from being misled, I want to add the following:

1) Given the cost of the machines, you SHOULD be spending the paltry amount of money on decent documentation. (You do realize that proper documentation, instructions and care and use manuals can greatly reduce service calls?? Right???) I find it laughable that a machine costing in excess of $6000 came packed with a manual consisting of less than 10 pages(printed off of someones computer), written in barely coherent English with poor quality photographs, that barely contains enough information to setup the saw, nevermind make the multitude of adjustments needed by said machine. I have purchased powertools for under $100 that came with a well written manual, and even a DVD clearly explaining all use, care and maintenance. Please work on that.

2) You are shipping a machine to the good old USA. I don’t care if it is a “European” machine, made in Asia, when it gets to a woodshop in America, it should have STANDARD tapes on the fences, sleds, etc. Show of hands, how many of my fellow cabinet makers use metric in the US? Yeah, that’s what I thought. Oh, and when you did finally get around to shipping us the the reversible steel tapes, they arrived bent, because someone hastily taped 2 boxes together to make one long enough to fit them in, but they failed and apparently cannot measure. That or they wanted to reduce the overall size to save $2 on the shipping. Thanks for that.

3) Make sure that all the parts and piece that belong in the box, are actually in the box. The wonderful manual shows and out feed extension and hold-down clamps. However, I have been unable to locate them. neither has Mr. Raisch, and I am not sure he has recieved a response as to whether he will be getting them or not.

4) Make a machine that contains repeatability. It was very nice to see that the machine was capable of cutting to a tolerance of 1/32’ in 8 feet. Unfortunately the very next cut, on the same sheet of plywood, with no changes in the setup of the machine, yielded a cut that was 3/16” off IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION. I don’t care who you are, what you are building, and what you paid for it. that is unacceptable. I can get better repeatability and closer tolerances out of my Hitachi contractor saw for $229 at Lowes.

5) Make a machine that is actually able to be adjusted fully. The ring which holds the post for the bearing at the bottom of the boom, the ring which contains the adjustment pins, for adjust the boom angle and elevation, is weld to the frame of the machine in a location that does not allow the boom to be adjusted fully and correctly to allow full accurate movement of the sliding table.

6) Drill all the holes need to attach all the parts. That is just simply annoying.

7) Install all the bolts fully, and completely. Especially on things as critical as the carriage that holds the motor.

SO, back to this motor issue, since I am the one who will be helping Mr. Raisch install it, should he choose to go that route, how will you be compensating he and I for doing your job? Further, how will you be compensating me for the lost production on my projects? The time and material I have wasted trying to tune and untunable machine?

For your sakes, Laguna, I do hope you take something from these experiences. I hope that as a company you learn from these issues and use them productively, as a means to improve yourselves, your operations, and your products.

I would like to offer my input and thoughts on a number of ways that I think the machine could be greatly improved, and several are minor changes that would not add any real cost going forward. If you are interested, I will post them here on LJ for you to read. At a minimum, improve your customer service, 3 to 4 days for a callback, and a week or more to get an answer is not acceptable.

Thank you.

Paul

Araisch and Pauldeo,
It is very unfortunate that your issues with Laguna have not been satisfactorily addressed. IN MY OPINION, this situation has taken an unfortunate turn. Laguna should not be forced into a position where they have to respond to you through this forum, again, MY OPINION. I assure you that there are few people that value customer service to the extent that I do. Any discussions should be private between you and the other party. Of course myself and a lot of the other Lumberjocks would like to know how this develops and would appreciate being updated with fact based postings, keeping in mind that the tool manufacturer has the same recourse. It is difficult to avoid frustration but we should guard against vindictiveness. I wish you well in your efforts to resolve this unfortunate event.

-- Don, Pittsburgh

You know, I remember reading the thread a few months ago about the absolute train wreck of customer service somebody received at the hands of Laguna. People don’t just pay top dollar for a good piece of equipment, they pay for the name behind it, the customer service, and the assumption that the company did some research into how to best package their extremely researched and expensive piece of equipment.

Araisch, I know this isn’t going to be much consolation, but judging from all the responses on here and the power of word of mouth, you’ve fought back and done it well.

Thank you Jason Indy

I believe a proper review includes both issues and resolutions. I have invited Laguna to provide a proper and final resolution for over four months now. Do you not think that is unacceptable? I would not have posted at all unless I had reason too!

All I can say is good luck to Mr. Raisch.

-- JMP

(posted on the forum)
I was lying in bed thinking about my 11 year history in retail management and some of the issues that I was faced with and I must say that I understand the point of view from which FEDSAWDAVE argues.
I once had a customer while managing a Zales Outlet store that I told, prior to him making a purchase, according to policy he could not receive a refund but had so many days from the date of purchase in order to do an equal or greater exchange. The customer proceeded to make the purchase and then returned several days after Christmas and demanded a refund. I politely told him that as explained before his purchase we did not offer refunds. This did not set well wit him and he threw the item on the counter and then proceeded to discredit me and my service throughout the entire mall until he was removed by security. I informed my District Manager of the issue and was assured that I did the correct thing and that he would stand behind me. Several days later I was notified by that same District Manager that the customer had communicated with the CEO of the Outlet division and she told him that he could come back for a full refund. I was overulled and not a happy camper. I tell this story because this was not a rare occurance and as such I realize more than most that customers can lie, cheat and steel until they get their way.
I can assure you that I am not such a person. I am after truth and accountablity and anyone who knows me will tell you that I will sacrifice my own well being before doing an injustice to another person. Through all of this I have owed my best friend $1000.00 and it has made me shameful not to be able to pay him back. Paul will tell you that I could not even bring myself to answer the phone when he called the other day. I sent him a check yesterday and immediately called him to let him know. And to tell you what kind of friend he is he told me he was more worried about what I was going through than the money that I owed him because he has paid for my ski trip every year over the past eight years and I have always paid him back. I am what I say I am and I believe it is my God given responsability to maintain integrity.
That does not mean that I don’t mess up or make a mistake but it is my responsbility to rectify the mistakes and injustices that I make. And if guilty suffer the consequences of my actions.
If fedsawdave opporates his business with these principles than he deserves to conduct business. If not than he not only deserves the same customer revolt but it is our obligation to see to it that he maintains accountability or does not opporate a business. The same thing for consumers too though. If a customer is actiing unjustly than they do not deserve the priviledge (not everything is a right) to conduct business.

ARaisch,

I have read this entire thread. It has made my heart sick. You would not have gone to such great lengths to post this thread if it were not true. It is my fervent hope and prayer that Laguna Tools resolves this issue to your satisfaction.

I for one will never buy a Laguna Tool.

Looks like LagunaTech1 is offering you a refund….hopefully it will also include your lost time , wasted materials , and money lost on the project that you first bought their tools for…..Of course you can never be compensated for the frustration that you and your buddy have endured.
I worked in retail for years , and if a customer ever had a problem with our products or services , you bet your butt that it was remedied immediately and with our full apologies to the customer.

Hey Laguna , Customer service is number ONE with all reputable companies .
I understand that there are going to be defective pieces and parts , but your customer service should not have any defects in it at all !!!

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .

As a woodworker, I must say that I was never that familiar with Laguna Tools until I started to work here at the Army Post and started to read more of the trade magazines and seeing their ads. I am a Delta fan to the core, and never really considered Laguna’s equipment. Now though, unless they do some werious changes to their business model, I will never purchase or recomend the purchase of their tools. I’m sorry for all the trouble you’re going through with this. I hope it works out in your favor.

-- "At its best, life is completely unpredictable." - Christopher Walken

I too have had problems with my “Laguna Platinum Sires” planer/jointer. I will say that after getting a bunch of different stories from all their service reps Roman was the guy that helped me. This is after I emailed the president of Laguna Tools. I told Roman what was wrong (the starter relay was bad) and he sent me a new one. Bottom line is that six weeks after I bought the thing I fixed it and it was working.

It seems like the biggest problem is with their “Platinum Sires”. The Platinum Sires is made in China NOT Europe!

From my seat in the balcony Laguna Tools forgot how they got to be successful. Their core business was supplying top quality European equipment at a top price. They sold out and went for a fast buck in China! Now their reputation is tarnished.

-- Bob Clark, Tool Collector and Sawdust Maker

I agree with Bob#2. It’s would be unfortunate if LJ’s members and or the site as a whole were potentially viewed in a negative light as a result of this post.
As noted above, I also have a problem with this being post #1.
I question whether ARaisch intends to be part of the community, or if he feels that Lumberjock’s is just a convenient pulpit easily hijacked for the sole purpose of pressuring a supplier.

Now…while this thread may have garnered the attention of the equipment importers I will make another comment. Enough with all the multi purpose, jack of all trades, not good at anything tools. It’s almost as if suppliers believe they can design around the basic skills and common sense required in woodworking. How bout this as a novel product, build the best table table saw, with a bullet proof motor and fence you could use as a engine hoist. No gimmicks, or micro adjust bullshit… something that will start day after day, cut straight day after day, run smoothly day after day…and just for insurance….how bout using standard sized hardware, bearings, fasteners, shafts, how bout creating a user manual that is comprehensive, that shows the end user how to work on this piece of equipment if they are so inclined, how bout making something that will last….that used to be expected in America or have we all forgotten.
You see what is going to happen very soon, China won’t build the cheap crap many of you importers design and force down the American public’s throat and all the slick advertising and sales gimmicks won’t help. China will do what Japan did 25+ years ago and cut all the profit at any cost, carpetbagger middlemen out of the loop and they will market directly to the end consumer and unfortunately, if American branded companies refuse to build quality…I hope this change happens sooner rather than later.

-- If knowledge is not shared, it is forgotten.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaargh… I hate to hear stories like this. It rekindles the feeling of frustration I’ve had over the years when this sort of thing has happened to me. It also makes me appreciate the times I got good customer service. I have a few Rikon tools and while they’ve always worked I have had a couple of technical questions and have needed parts and such. I can say that they were terrific. I can also say if Laguna had treated you like Rikon treated me they would have earned at least one loyal customer and probably more.

Imagine getting up every day and going to work knowing (Knowing!) you will not, or cannot give your best effort. How do you have any pride in your work. How do you have confidence that people should and will trust you? And now we have this big recession and I wonder how many people affiliated with such companies will cry and complain when sales and jobs go away.

The great thing nowadays is the internet and open source webpages like this. You can reach nearly 100% of the target market and companies should know that. Actually it shouldn’t take that kind of threat to motivate companies to excel at customer service. I read a review somewhere about a guy who bought a Grizzly jointer that was somehow warped or bent. Apparently they went all out to get him a new one ASAP. And he let everyone know. Next time I need a tool I will give them a look. I didn’t like Laguna’s post so I won’t look to them unless, if and until they make it right or otherwise demonstrate they want a relationship more than a sale.

-- tim hill www.newcalshop.com

I have purchased a laguan tools Robland 300 tablesaw and have experienced the exact same frustration ARaisch has gone thru.. I’m sorry but in my honest opinion..the machines are among the worst designed machines I have ever see. I had the Robland 300 sliding tablesaw, and have had so many issues with that saw that I finally had to moved to the storage section of the shop, and bought a good ol Powermatic 66 and have worked without a hitch for the last 10 years.. all i can say to anyone who will listen is please.. I beg of you.. DO NOT BUY LAGUNA!! and tell your friends! I don’t care what the sales rep says.. the customer service rep says.. nor the president of the company says.. I have now seen countless stories and have experienced my own frustrations with this company..It would take me 2 days to list everything that went wrong with this machine and all the run around I got from them and I live 30 minutes away from their office!!!!

What I have learned to do now..is I go to someone who has machines or a woodworking shop (in my case it’s Sam) ask them about their machines and experiences with them.. if they give you the thumbs up..then I go check them out.. but I go stricktly by testimony of people who have actually have used these machines and swear by them.. not an advertisement or hype or even a great sale.. but experience of the users..

-- Randall Child

Sorry to hear about your bad experience dealing with Laguan tools . I can remember reading about problems with Customer Service going back 2 years , seems they still don’t have clue. I would implore upon you to post about your bad dealings with Laguan tools on all the other woodworking forums . Woodnet, Sawmill Creek and Familywoodworking to name a few .

As many of your fellow woodworkers need to know what horrible service they can expect if they choose to purchase products from them . A company that treats customers like this does not need to be in busy any longer . I realize for every bad story there’s plenty of good ones , however no company should let problems get to this point . I hope you get this worked out ASAP.

Here’s something for the powers that be at Laguan tools , it seems you forgot the meaning of Customer Service. This should help you out , I found this on About.com .

Good customer service is the lifeblood of any business. You can offer promotions and slash prices to bring in as many new customers as you want, but unless you can get some of those customers to come back, your business won’t be profitable for long.

Good customer service is all about bringing customers back. And about sending them away happy – happy enough to pass positive feedback about your business along to others, who may then try the product or service you offer for themselves and in their turn become repeat customers.

If you’re a good salesperson, you can sell anything to anyone once. But it will be your approach to customer service that determines whether or not you’ll ever be able to sell that person anything else. The essence of good customer service is forming a relationship with customers – a relationship that that individual customer feels that he would like to pursue.

How do you go about forming such a relationship? By remembering the one true secret of good customer service and acting accordingly; “You will be judged by what you do, not what you say.”

I know this verges on the kind of statement that’s often seen on a sampler, but providing good customer service IS a simple thing. If you truly want to have good customer service, all you have to do is ensure that your business consistently does these things:

1) Answer your phone.

Get call forwarding. Or an answering service. Hire staff if you need to. But make sure that someone is picking up the phone when someone calls your business. (Notice I say “someone”. People who call want to talk to a live person, not a “fake recorded robot”.) For more on answering the phone, see Phone Answering Tips to Win Business.

2) Don’t make promises unless you WILL keep them.

Not plan to keep them. Will keep them. Reliability is one of the keys to any good relationship, and good customer service is no exception. If you say, “Your new bedroom furniture will be delivered on Tuesday”, make sure it is delivered on Tuesday. Otherwise, don’t say it. The same rule applies to client appointments, deadlines, etc.. Think before you give any promise – because nothing annoys customers more than a broken one.

3) Listen to your customers.

Is there anything more exasperating than telling someone what you want or what your problem is and then discovering that that person hasn’t been paying attention and needs to have it explained again? From a customer’s point of view, I doubt it. Can the sales pitches and the product babble. Let your customer talk and show him that you are listening by making the appropriate responses, such as suggesting how to solve the problem.

4) Deal with complaints.

No one likes hearing complaints, and many of us have developed a reflex shrug, saying, “You can’t please all the people all the time”. Maybe not, but if you give the complaint your attention, you may be able to please this one person this one time – and position your business to reap the benefits of good customer service.

5) Be helpful – even if there’s no immediate profit in it.

The other day I popped into a local watch shop because I had lost the small piece that clips the pieces of my watch band together. When I explained the problem, the proprietor said that he thought he might have one lying around. He found it, attached it to my watch band – and charged me nothing! Where do you think I’ll go when I need a new watch band or even a new watch? And how many people do you think I’ve told this story to?

6) Train your staff (if you have any) to be ALWAYS helpful, courteous, and knowledgeable.

Do it yourself or hire someone to train them. Talk to them about good customer service and what it is (and isn’t) regularly. Most importantly, give every member of your staff enough information and power to make those small customer-pleasing decisions, so he never has to say, “I don’t know, but so-and-so will be back at…”

7) Take the extra step.

For instance, if someone walks into your store and asks you to help them find something, don’t just say, “It’s in Aisle 3.” Lead the customer to the item. Better yet, wait and see if he has questions about it, or further needs. Whatever the extra step may be, if you want to provide good customer service, take it. They may not say so to you, but people notice when people make an extra effort and will tell other people.

8) Throw in something extra.

Whether it’s a coupon for a future discount, additional information on how to use the product, or a genuine smile, people love to get more than they thought they were getting. And don’t think that a gesture has to be large to be effective. The local art framer that we use attaches a package of picture hangers to every picture he frames. A small thing, but so appreciated.

If you apply these eight simple rules consistently, your business will become known for its good customer service. And the best part? The irony of good customer service is that over time it will bring in more new customers than promotions and price slashing ever did!

I just wanted to chime into the conversation and speak about the credit card issue. I use American Express for 90% of my purchases and I know they stand behind their customers when they make bad purchases (damaged goods, etc.). Instead of you being required to put out the money, they will recredit it to your account immediately while they investigate the claim. In my case, my claim was valued and I was able to keep my money. I guess what I’m saying is get a credit card that stands with and beside you. Good luck!

Bio

-- Bio

I’m Sorry but in MHO the answer, after a few weeks of run around, should have been get a lawyer.

-- RTB. "dumb animals are not stupid they simply can't talk "

I accidentally stumbled onto this site and topic. I would like to thank JerryS for that perfectly stated rules of good customer relations. I hope you don’t mind if I use it in my high school class Monday morning. We recently purchased two Sawstops ( View Time Warp’s slow motion video… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE ) and couldn’t be more pleased with the performance of this piece of equipment. I have never had any issues, but if I do, the sales representative is local. As a 30 veteran teacher, I am glad everyone of my students still has all of their digits, but this marvelous saw still takes some pressure off… knowing that one slip will not mean permanent disfigurement… and major medical bills… for a youngster… like one of the more than 50 girls… or 100 boys, in my classes… just starting out in woodworking.

-- tom.bockman

wow heres another post about the same issue. from what i have read on both sides it does not sound like poor customer service at all. a bad machine yes, but customer service has the job of fixing issues which they seem to be trying to do. my opinion would be to talk to them about what you want rather than do it on here…..doesn’t look like anybody on here can fix your machine or give you a refund for it. why get personal about something that can be fixed? its not like you have been shut out by them. if that were the case this post would be justified but it seems to be quite the opposite. get off the soap box and deal with the problem at the source and be done with it. simple.

-- Let there be sawdust

feinstein_cabinets Can you read- it has been four months of going back and forth with the people at Laguna Tools FOUR MONTHS! What if you bought a brand new automobile and the door did not close and there was a crack in the dash board. Would you want that company to replace the car or offer you replacement parts? How long would you expect that to take? It was almost too months before they offered to replace the entire machine. And they did that only after I could not get the belt for the scoring blade to stay on and they could not offer me a solution other than it possibly being a bad belt. How does a new belt on a new machine go bad? They then told me it would be no SOONER than three weeks before they could even ship it out to me. Now lets say you finally got the replacement car and three weeks after that the car would only go 25 miles per hour and they told you that they would send you a replacement motor to install yourself but, they were not even sure if that was the problem! what then?

Jerry- spot on with the customer service model. I spent 11 years practicing that approach and the only dissatified customers that I had were the ones that were either crooks or the company failed to let me take care of. Maybe that is why, to some of you I am ranting? I have very high expectations because I personally gave the service that I expect from others. I, like many, do not believe this is going above and beyond but, an obligation of decency and respect for fellow human beings.

Woodshopteacher- I bought a sliding table for that same reason. My father is a lifllong carpenter who had dreams of opening a furniture shop when he retired. Several years ago he suffered the tragedy of cutting through several fingers. It took forever to heal and what the doctors were able to save get in the way because he has no feeling in those fingers. He no longer has that dream. I also wanted a saw with a scoring blade as most of the jobs that I have had in the past involve cutting a lot of laminated ply and or sheet goods.

rtb -lawyers cost money and can not always help. And lets not remember if one person does right by another there is no need for the involvment of legality.

Harold- viewed in a negative light? I once had a manager ask me if I had ever heard the expression “perception is reality” and I told him no. Now come on anyone reared in this country has probably heard that expression so, what was my point? Reality is reality! Unless we have a universal perspective we, as humans, fall short. If twenty people view a crime you would get many different stories of what occured. That is why invstigators get as much information about the occurence before coming to a conclusion. It makes the case easier if the proposed criminal has been accused before for the same crime. That is why I do not concern myself with perception but, something called good old fashion truth. What is is!

As to my using this forum or others as a pulpit- Yes I am. As to weather or not I am a devoted member of this or any other woodworking forum – who cares? I am a devoted person to the craft of construction and carpenty. That is a community that exists with or without this forum. The wonderful thing about this forum (and many others) is that it is open to the public for anyone to join (not an exclussive or secret society) and anyone who follows the rules is permitted to post. I would think that any consumer of goods would want to be steared clear of companies with poor service and faulty products. I also think that decent humans beings that share the same concerns want to know that they can come together and share those concerns openly without someone trying to qualify there value as a member of the community. If you can discredit the information that I have provided then, and only then, I am not worthy to post. Otherwise you do not have to read it. Ahhh that wonderful thing called freedom of expression.

As far as the Jack of all purpose tools being useless- they may for you be useless but I wonder if you have used one before. There is plenty of testimony on the internet as to individuals who own good quality combination machines that fit well into there small shops and they love them!

AS TO AN UPDATE ON THE STATUS OF MY MASHINE – nothing new! it still won’t run and I did notice that the Lageuna rep has been watching even though they do not officially work on the weekends.

Oh and step three on the list of customers service do’s, listen to your customers, is something that has frustrated me from the beginning. I have sent Roman many many emails asking him to address specicfic concerns reguarding the defects in my first machiine and in response I got a very vague reply. I even addressed this issue with him and nothing changed.

BTW- I don’t want Roman to think that I am picking on him. He is probably doing what he has been told. On the other hand, if he is not (just doing what he is told) it is my opinion that he does not deserve his job. And, if he is, I am sorry that you work for a company that promotes such disregaurd for customer concerns.

You think this is bad, try dealing with them in Canada. A friend of mine has basically given up since they don’t have distribution here, they care even less when the product crosses the border. It’s unfortunate that they have such little disregard for the people who keep them in business….maybe the recession will provide a final solution to this company and close them down. It just makes me appreciate the Lee Valleys’, Leigh jigs, and lie neilsons of the world who know what customer service means. I’ve even had fantastic service from Woodcraft who have no operations in Canada either but spared no expense to make a bad product better very promptly.

-- Paul

Thanks OttawaP- how many customers or friends of customers have posted on this forum now about poor service or machinery from Laguna? That further warrents the use of the word ANOTHER in the title.

On another note – I will at this point speak of a few companies that I have dealt with recently that I have found to be great at giving service or selling high quality merchandise. As a result of the issues with the combination machine, I made some purchases at my not so local Woodcraft store in Towson Maryland. These people know how to conduct business. They do not always have what I am looking for but, they are quick to order it and/or recommend someone who does. And most of them know what they are talking about! That is a 45 min to 1 hour trip I do not mind taking. I recently needed to return a few items that had gone beyond the 3 month return policy and I was asked one question, “did you use these items?” and then I was given a full refund (afterwhich I spent more money).... Great company Great service. Well done.

As far as the manufacture that I said I would mention – Festool. I am just one of many that has nothing but good things to say for these guys and there tools. A little pricey but, great quality and very innovative. Their tools, with little exception, do what they tell you they will do and with great accuracy. I purchased the TS 75 plunge cut saw, the 1400 model router, a barrel grip jigsaw, the MFT table, and a dust extractor in case anyone was wondering. I do not care for the MFT3 table for making repeatable cuts but it is a great clamping table.

One more company that I will sing the praises of is a local store in Annapolis called Steven’s Tools. They are not a large store and most of what I am looking for has had to be ordered but, they have great service and do what they tell you they are going to do. The owner once told me that he does not carrry Festool but he knows the rep and if I ever wanted anything from them he would order it and let me have it with no profit just to keep my business. Every time I walk into that store I get that down home good feeling of one of those stores your grandfather would tell about.

A decent lawyer can be a godsend ESPECIALLY with dealing with a company like Laguna. It is an unfortunate state of affairs that we as normally decent human beings should not be able to resolve differences and issues WITHOUT getting the sharks involved. BUT, being a professional and knowing that time is money, a letter from a lawyer many times is all it takes to get the job done in timely manner. Obviously, the ONLY really proper thing for Laguna to have done would have been to ship you another one and arrange for pickup of the damaged machine. At this point they will never know just how many potential sales they’ve blown via this thread. Makes me glad I use Powermatic machines.

Good luck. I sure hope you get some.

always,
J.C.

-- "Imagination is more important than knowledge" -- Albert Einstein

I sure hope this all turns out favorably. I hope Laguna hires a crew to pick the thing up and drive it home. Out of sight, out of mind as soon as the truck’s taillights cross the property line. Oh year, and a refund too. Don’t thing you’ll get anything else like compensation or apologies. Laguna just needs to cut all your losses. As least in the future they could say it was a FUBAR situation and they took care of it.

Best wishes and good luck on this.

-- tim hill www.newcalshop.com

I just read Nancy’s post and all the responses and ARaish’s problems too. I’m definitely curious as to what kind of quality control Laguna has in their manufacturing. It seems as if it’s non-existent. I have looked at their equipment several times but didn’t purchase. Now, I’m glad I didn’t. If I was the president of a company such as Laguna, I would not tolerate the poor customer service or for that matter, the poor quality control for letting something be shipped that was damaged or not right. These are only two instances, how many others just kept quiet or got frustrated with the run around and just gave up and have said nothing? I’m sorry, I would not accept anything short of what I paid for and if that means a new machine, then so be it. I wouldn’t accept “compensation” for something I had to modify before I could use it. To me, the only “compensation” is to give me what I paid for in the first place.

Sorry Mr. Pres. I don’t see any Laguna tools in my future.

-- There are three signs of old age. The first is loss of memory. I forgot the other two!

Good luck ARaisch.I was seriously considering the same combo machine.Although it is very expensive I thought the space saved might be worth the money if it was a top quality tool.Thanks for saving me the $.

Dear Mr. ARaisch.

I’m very sorry to hear off all the things you going true, I believe that this makes your daily live not easier.
I read tonight on the website from Laguna tools: ”Soon after arriving in the U.S., Torben was quick to notice that American woodworking equipment wasn’t up to par with European machinery in terms of safety, functionality and basic features found abroad.
Mr ARaisch I can tell you that the way Laguna Tools is handling your problems is not up to par with European standard off giving service.

I wish you all the best and I hope for a good solution.

Greetings Schummie

sorry for my English.

-- Greetings from the Netherlands.

Thanks for the posts – thelt, 747drvr(fellow pilot I presume), jcees, newtim, and Schummie.

Schummie – I just noticed from your avitar that you are driving some type of motorized chair. I hope all is well with you. If you are recovering I pray that it is quick.

Mr. ARaisch,

Thank you for your interest and your prays, I appreciate this very mutts.
That motorized chair is my electric wheelchair, where I was riding in, in my good days.
Now I’m lying most off the day on my bed because off the pain, you can reed my “story” on my Home page.
My days are now filed whit dreaming,hoping and praying for the day that I can also can go woodworking,
like you guys.
I hope you can work it out with Laguna Tools.

Schummie.

-- Greetings from the Netherlands.

I will add this to the post.. the Machines are not up to par with European machines..on my sliding tablesaw.. there was a dust collection port of a 2 1/2” pipe.. WITH 2 90 degree elbows!!! how can small cutoff scraps that fall into it make the bend?? they can’t.. they clog the openings, and you have to get a little stick and try and poke them out..I complained and complained that this was not working and they said that’s the design of the machine.. you can’t cut it off and modify it because it inteferes with the ability to turn the blade to make beveled cuts..like I said.. this machine was pushed to the far end of the shop and is used now as a bench to stack stuff on..Boycott laguna tools I say

-- Randall Child

Thanks for the post RBWoodworker Look like yet another dissatisfied customer

Update

Here are the emails:

Adam,

We have tried to contact you both through email and have left a reply to your posts on the internet as well. On both sides of this we are aware that a resolution must be met and we are attempting to contact you again to reach this resolve. As we have offered before we can work on getting this saw fixed or we can have both saws picked up and issue you a refund. Please let us know what it is you would like to do.

Thank you,

Roman Snell

Roman,

I have no doubt that you have been following my post as well as the postings of others on the Lumber Jocks forum. Paul and I have stated very specifically what we are and are not willing to accept as a resolution to the issues that we have faced over the past several months. For your sake I will repeat them in this email in order of most desired outcome.

1) I would rather keep the machine and have it repaired and calibrated than to receive a refund as I am in desperate need of a machine. However, you should have no doubt as to my unwillingness to sacrifice my expectations of owning a machine that will provide repeated accuracy and durability throughout the many future years of use.

2) I will not accept any remedy that involves further calibration or repair at the expense of my time or money. You will have to send someone to do the work at no cost to me.

3) A full apology for the inconveniences suffered by me as a result of delayed service and faulty equipment.

4) Reimbursement of a dollar amount to be determined for lost wages and the time spent working on these machines. I understand that a certain amount of time is expected to calibrate a machine of this nature. This process could and would have been expedited if proper documentation had been provided and technical support would have been timely. You can also expect of me full cooperation as to the nondisclosure of any agreed reimbursement as I know this will open Laguna Tools up to those looking to take advantage.

5) If Laguna Tools is not willing to fulfill my prior request for repair then, I would expect an immediate refund of all monies paid to Laguna Tools for both machines and this should include shipping. This will free up a certain amount of money with which I can make the replacement purchase necessary for the continuation of my occupation.

6) After a refund is provided you may at your desired scheduling remove both of your machines from my premises and regain their possession to do with as you please.

Once an agreement is reached I would be willing to make a statement on all active forums as to the provision of your satisfactory service. It will not include an apology from me for any truth written as a result of my negative experiences with Laguna Tools. As well, unless all requested resolutions are met, I will make no promises written or stated as to the discontinuation of any threads started regarding Laguna Tools service. This is an experience from your company must prove that it has, for future purposes, changed its behavior.

I wish to make it clear that I do not intend any ill will towards Laguna Tools and will even offer my help or service, within reason, that you in the future should wish to ask of me regarding quality control and/or other means of business propagation. I will, at your request or permission, even post to the above mentioned forums this new relationship in an attempt to aid in the regaining of any lost profits as a result of my previous postings. From this you will be revealing to any previous and future customers your commitment to provide quality machinery and exemplary service.

I will be looking forward to your response with either an acceptance of my proposal or a counter. Please, in order to avoid further delay, state clearly all intentions.

Sincerely,

Adam M Raisch

Adam,

In light of the postings on the forum and your feelings toward our company and product we feel it would be better for both parties to part ways and issue you a full refund. The refund will include all charges for the machines and shipping. We will have our shipping company come to pickup the machines at no charge to you. The machines should be fully crated and ready for pickup when the shipping company arrives. Once the machines our back to us our accounting department will issue you the refund. If you have any questions you can contact us at anytime.

Thank you,

Roman Snell

Again “in there words” willing to work with me” and then not so willing to work with me. Both emails were sent days after the post had started.

Doesn’t sound like they’re offering you anything for your losses…..Have you retained Counsel yet ? I like the part where they want you to re-crate the machinery and have it ready for their shipping company whenever they might arrive ! LMAO !! That guy should write for the “Tonight Show” !

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .

Thanks Dusty- Most companies will at least meet you half way. They, as usuall, just completely ignored what I the customer was asking for. No negotiation. No counter offer. I think having someone sent out to fix the machine is reasonable so, I assume that they realized that the machine would never do what was expected. Even after they made the calibrations.

I could write a 10,000 word complaint about my laguna tools including poor customer service and misrepresenting salesmen but instead I’ll just say DON’T BUY LAGUNA TOOLS, unless you want hours of unhappy hours of trying to use there machines and hundreds of phone calls trying to get any positive results from laguna tools.

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop Southern Oregon

Adam,

I see warning flags a flying in Roman’s response. If you send the equipment back before you have either a signed agreement regarding the amount to be refunded, or the actual refund in hand, you have lost all your negotiating power. GET A LAWYER! I wouldn’t put it past those people to charge you for damage to the machine if you don’t crate it up “properly”. Also, you should stop saying that you are willing to have them callibrate the machine so you can keep it. That is another way of saying that you still believe the machine to be able to perform the function for which it was intended. Your position is stronger if you simply ask for a refund because they sent a piece of worthless metal instead of the machine you expected.

Letting go of the tiger you have subdued is often the most tricky part of the expedition. Time to let the expert animal handlers finish the job. GET A LAWYER.

Best,

-- Jim

Personally I won’t let those machines leave my shop until I was refunded all my money . As few as crating them up , make Laguan hire a company that does this.
Best of luck and keep us updated .

Glad I changed my mind about buying a new bandsaw from them .

They definitely need to cut you a check before the machines leave your shop.
You already know that their “word” is worthless , just like their machines !
They should be responsible for the re-crating of their defective products , not you.

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .

Roman needs to come to your shop and crate them up.He needs to bring CASH for every penny and he needs to remove the pos from your shop immediately.Get a lawyer.Let him handle it.Call the Better Business Beareau.Keep posting and don’t give up until you are satisfied.

-- teh most beautiful about a tree is what you can make out of it...even if that is only a fire!I hate raking

When i received my SawStop, there was a piece of formica that wasn’t trimmed properly on the extension table. I trimmed and re-glued it. i just mentioned it to them so they could check their production. They said they were aware of the problem, apologized for the inconvenience and shipped me a new extension table. When I have called them, it was like they were glad to hear from me.

I got a grizzley bandsaw, couldn’t figure out one of the adjustments. Called the customer service, got switched to a technician and 15 min later cutting like a champ.

Who needs Laguna? It is not like they are inexpensive.

Sorry for your pain ARaisch

-- Sharp tools and thin whispy shavings make woodworking a joy.

WOW Holy * Batman, you have hen through * and Back with Laguna.

Just to let LAGUNA know I have been in the process of fully equiping a new woodshop and Laguna WAS on my list. BUT NO LONGER. After what I have read I would never recomend anyone even think about doing business with Laguna Tools. At this point you couldn’t give me one!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If it was just one person having this problem it’s one thing, but I lost count of the number of others that have had the same problems with Laguna. That’s sad, what a waste of money, they have spent advertising. If they would only spend some time and money looking after the customers they allreasdy have they wouldn’t have to spend so much on trying to bring in new customers. They would come from referals from satisfied customers. Thats where my customers come from.

About ten years ago we Santa bought my son one of those electric powered Jeeps for Christmas. There were a couple of parts that were defective, nothing major just cosmetic. i contact Mattel toys the following business day and talked to their customer service dept to inform them of my problem. They sid they would send us a replacement and make arrangements to pick up the defective Jeep.
Two days later UPS was at our door with this huge box with a completely assembled Jeep. They never did come to pick up the original Jeep. The day after delivering the replacement they clled to make sure it arrived and that we were satisfied. Later I had to contacted them about getting it pick up and they told me unless I had a problem with it I could do what ever I wanted with it. So he ended up with two jeeps, one for a friend to drive, when playing together.
What great customer service for a product that cost under $200.00. They lost money on the deal. But I have told more people this story than I can count. It was a great investment! Thats the kind of advertising you can not buy.
I think the difference between Mattel Toys and Laguna starts at the top in the CEO’s office. A company will run the way it’s leader steers it.
A company is kind of like the Boston Pop’s they sound so good due to strong leadership.

-- Ed - Milan, IN

This website and its forums (this thread in particular) is of immeasurable value. I had just finished watching the videos on Laguna’s Platinum Series cabinet saw and was ready to buy. Thankfully, I checked here first.

-- Rick in Sunny AZ

Hasn’t this issue been resolved yet ?

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .

ARaisch,
I was browsing this web site and stumbled across your issue with Laguna. I purchased a used 18” bandsaw of theirs a few years back. Paid $800 for the saw (a little more than half price of new) that appeared to have been used very little. Plus it came with a load of blades including some very expensive carbides. Anyway, on my third project the motor just quit. I contacted Laguna and they wanted $500 for a new motor that I would have to install. I wasn’t that concerned about replacing the motor myself but more about the cost. Almost up to the price of a new machine. I sat on it for a bit and by fluke contacted another company, MiniMax, and discussed this with their sales rep. They offered to send me one of their new 16” saws that had more power, more weight and mobility kit for the $500 and all I had to do was ship my Laguna to them. They wanted a competitor machine to compare on the floor. Anyway, I can’t say enough good about MiniMax. I don’t have to make minor adjustments like I did all the time with the Laguna. Blades would wonder and would require upper wheel adjustment with every blade change. Not so with the MiniMax.

I wish you the best with Laguna.

A quick update – I returned both machines which Laguna Fools received two weeks ago yesterday and they have yet to give me the refund that they told me they would. I have contacted an attorney who is beside himself as to what he thinks they are doing keeping the machines and my money. I have made plans to meet with him this week to review the communications between Laguna Tools and me and to establish a monitary value owed too me for the time lost in building the cabinets and dealing with this whole mess.

Good for you , AR…..It is long past due !

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .

one Question why is this company still trading

-- cut it saw it scrap it

I backed out of a purchase of a Laguna lathe based on this and other posts of poor service. Too bad too as the prices are reasonable. It is imperative today, especially with the poor economy, (as it is in anytime really)that a manufacturer do everything in its power to satisfy a customer. In this case I am appalled at the lack of sincerity and action on Laguna’s part….I know there are two sides to every story…but this is one of several posts I have seen (some on other woodworking boards) about goods received in poor condition…and than Laguna has failed to make good within a reasonable time…..Shame on a manufacturer that doesn’t listen and support their customers….if I did such high handed support to my customers…I would expect to be out of business or in a courtroom quickly….Reputation is king in this industry….as in most others…you trade on your reputation…its what gets you the customer in the first place….your customer service retains customers, brings them back, and certainly gets you the good or bad reputation…we all know that in manufacturing…even the best ones…they will have a few glitches now and then that get by their QC…its what they do after a problem or after the sale that shows their mettle…It is sad if this has to go to attorneys…no one wins that battle except the attorneys….I am sadened to hear what ARaisch has had to go through…and if Laguna doesn’t get their customer support in line they will not be in business much longer….its too small a world now a days…My only advice on this stage is to take your money and run if you can….attorneys are out for themselves mostly and unless you have a contract that says the prevailing party gets legal fees…you very possibly may not recoup your costs…of course consumer law has some different rules….and I’m speaking from a company perspective…good luck ARaisch…keep us informed of the outcome…

-- Woodworking.....My small slice of heaven!

Another update- It has been almost two months now since Laguna Tools has received both machines and yet no refund. I got bank of america involved and they would not give me a credit because Laguna Fools is claiming that I ruined the machines upon returning them by leaving them out in the rain for several days. THAT IS WHY I ASKED THEM TO PICK THEM UP! I did not leave them in the rain first of all but, since I had to remove them from small shops in order to crate them they got rained on and instantly rusted I cleaned the water off the best I could but the damage was done. Believe me the only damage that could have been done for the amount of time they were exposed would be surface rust. But of coarse BofA is taking their side and told me that I would have to prove to them the machines were not ruined! HUH? Yah i’ll get right on that?

What I am asking now is that anyone who has had poor servise or believes to have beened ripped off from Laguna Tools since they were in business to email me at adammraisch@comcast.net so that we can discuss a class action lawsuite

Thank you

Oh and buy the way I just noticed that Laguna Tools had a “D” rating with the BBB and in two cases refused to discuss the issue brought before them

Laguna Tools emailed me today after I attempted a phone conversation and they told me my only option was to have them ship me one of the machines back at my cost.

UNFRIGGINBELIEVEABLE !!! Sounds like they want to get the lawyers involved now …as far as BofA is concerned , they’re all a bunch of asswipes there as well ! I’ll have nothing more to do with either of these companies as long as I live.

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .

So they want to ship one of the defective machines back to you that you had shipped back to them?

-- Dale Manning, Carthage, NY

I don’t know the facts, but the cops acted stupidly. Obama’s bigotry and prejudice serves to remind me to keep an open mind and listen to both sides. You’ve got to acknowledge the possibility of fault on either, both, or no side at all lest you go the way of a Duke intellectual and appear foolish and, well, stupid. Having said that, it is disturbing to read the entries from other’s who have had problems with Laguna. Those comments in combination with a fair reading of Laguna’s posts tilt the scales toward Raisch. But the most compelling comment, not that I doubt Raisch’s account, is the entry by A1Jim. I’ve read many of his posts throughout this site and he seems like a standup guy and worthy of respect.

Never let a crisis go to waste. Laguna did. Everyone loses, some more than others.

-- tim hill www.newcalshop.com

Not only should users boycott but so should all the American WW magazines that Laguna uses to hock their junk in. I bet if they lost all their advertising in this country they might wake up. They sound almost as despicable as our last president

-- There is no growing in knowing where your going

Araisch,

I’m really sorry you or anyone had to go through this. I hope it its makes you feel a little better to know that I was all set to buy their slot mortiser and was also seriously considering purchasing their 14” bandsaw, but there is no way on Earth I’m ever going to do business with Laguna now or ever after reading this thread!

I have heard of Laguna not having great customer service compared to outfits like Felder or Minimax. Never the less I had been seriously looking at their “PRO” 9 foot slider but this thread has changed my mind.