AWESOME TABLESAW (WITH VIDEO)

Hi Tyler. Great in depth and analytical review. That looks like a nicer version of a Craftsman TS I used to own which had served me well. Keep up the good work and Happy Easter!

-- Carl Rast, Pelion, SC

Great review Tyler, and very informative. This is a good little saw for a direct drive saw and the power is definitely there for it’s size!
Stay safe.

-- --Chuck

I have nerver yet seen a good tool come out of Craftman for the price they want

-- --<<<<<< I will not stop until I get it right. >>>>>>--

Excellent review , just as good as those done by FWW and the video is the icing on the cake . Be nice if others would do video reviews . Thanks for putting it all together , and you got a great deal on that saw .

Woodshopfreak,

Where did you find a dado throat plate to fit the 21805? Also, are you still happy with the 21805? I am thinking of getting one in the next few days, but I can’t find dado plates for it.

Thanks!

checkout a company called ‘sawstop’. Now thats a table saw

-- urningit

Yeah the sawstop’s are just amazeing. I wish I could even fit one in my little area. haha. They are so nice, I have heard nothing but good things about them.

-- Tyler, Illinois

No! This is NOT an awesome table saw! As long as we keep accepting this kind of cheap Chinese junk as a table saw, we will not get any REAL table saws for sale in the US. There is some innovative design here, but the execution is the same plastic junk that we have all come to know and hate in Chinese manufacturing.

personal opinion – take it as you will

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

I understand your opinion but I don’t believe this is a time or place for those kinds of comments. If you really feel that way, why do you have a craftsman table saw. I don’t get it. Leave rude comments to yourself please. I’m not sayin that I would take this over a larger better saw but that it is great for the value, and that it does exactly what I need it to right not.

-- Tyler, Illinois

I have an OLDER Craftsman table saw. From back when they actually made products to do what they sold them for. Sadly, products like the one you reviewed do not function as what they are sold for. I stand by what I said: as long as we accept this cheap crap as table saws, we will not have any decent table saws sold in America. This is cheap Chinese junk! If it does what you need right now, then you have lowered your expectations to exactly what Sears wants for their consumers.

I make no apologies for my statements. What they sell as table saws right now do not deserve the name!

Once again: personal opinion – take it as you will

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

Great review! Keep up the good work. EEngineer must have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed. I’m not sure how he can even make the generalization without reviewing the saw personally. Just about every tool, from just about every manufacturer, on the store shelf is made in China today and was probably designed by an American engineer to meet a specific target customer. I don’t think you or anyone else is saying that a saw selling for $139 can be compared to a saw selling for thousands. Craftsman has and is still supplying some great values for us value minded tool seekers. I personally just bought their $99 2.25hp fixed / plunge router combo.

-- DaveH - Boise, Idaho - “How hard can it be? It's only wood!”

Tyler-
One of the great benefits that LJ’s provides is a knowledge base that we all can tap into BEFORE we make a purchase. While you are understandably proud of your new saw and think that you got a good deal, a day will come when you realize that you made a mistake. As your skills grow, your desire for higher quality workmanship will also grow. This saw will not grow with you.

For example the angle setting mechanism will not provide the precise settings that the worm gear adjustment on contractor or cabinet saws achieve. You will wish that you had a great big “OFF” switch the first time you try to use the outfeed “table” and find that the end of the stock drops down and gets jammed. Be ready for a major kickback. The non-standard miter slots means you will forever have to live with a sloppy miter gauge because a quality one won’t fit. After you fight to get a bag of sawdust out from underneath the saw several times, you’ll decide it isn’t worth the trouble and let the sawdust fall on the floor. You will not be able to get or keep the blade parallel with the miter slots. I could go on, but I hope you see the point.

When I first started in woodworking many years ago I bought Craftsman because I just didn’t know any better. As you, I thought they were great for awhile, but as time went on I learned that I should have spent a little more money to buy quality. I started off with a Craftsman Direct Drive Table saw (universal motor) that was similar to yours. Within a few years my pride turned to hate and I sold it and bought a contractor’s saw (not a Craftsman). (Now 20 years later, I wish that I would have bought a cabinet saw!) I still have several other Craftsman power tools that I rarely use, but everytime I do turn them on I am reminded of an unwise purchase.

Now – that is not to say you CAN’T do quality work with such a machine, but one of the joys of woodworking is machining wood without fighting the shortcomings of your equipment.

I think it is great that you and a number of other young people are fellow LJ’s. Us “old” guys have learned a lot over the years, and we are anxious and willing to share if asked. We were young once and at that time “knew it all.” As time went on we were surprised to find out how much “smarter” our elders became.

OK? In the meantime, be careful so you reach adulthood with all of your fingers.

-- Joe

Well I would hardly call it an AWESOME saw, but some Craftsman stuff, like the Orion built ( Steel City ) Hybrid tablesaw with the Biesemeyer Commercial fence I think has sold fairly well and has had good reviews. So to say that all Craftsman stuff nowdays is junk and doesn’t deserve the name is maybe a bit of a bold statement. I think if you stick with the majority of the Professional line of their tools you’ll be ok if you buy them on sale, Sears retail prices lately are a little on the high side. SawStop I think is a little too much hype, if their Contractor’s saw was the best, why do cast iron extension wings and a Biesemeyer fence cost extra ? Cabinet saws I’m sure are nice, but not a neccessity in a non commercial enviroment, a Contractor’s saw with a good fence is usually all most hobbyists need.

I just want to point out that if you are planning on belittling my saw, please take it elsewhere. It is un-necessary, and I don’t appreciate it at all. I still stand behind what I said about my saw, and I fully understand that it isn’t the best saw. You can’t compare apples to oranges, so don’t compare a entry level saw to a commercial use saw, thats just wrong. I’m 14 and I appreciate what I have. I can’t even fit a better saw in my shop if I wanted to so there is no point in telling me how terrible my saw is. I have found nothing in this saw that I can’t work around.

-- Tyler, Illinois

Lay off ‘shopfreak. Maybe you boys (EEngineer, GMman, ajosephg, & Woodchuck) were more privileged than the typical 14 year old. Here’s a kid with motivation and initiative. Somehow he finagled the purchase of his first tablesaw, something I wasn’t able to do until I was 25. ... And he has certainly demonstrated that he is not sitting around the house in front of a computer or playing video games all day. Kudos ‘shopfreak!!

One of the aspects of Lumberjocks that is most attractive is the diversity in skills of it’s members. There are people wetting there toes in woodworking everyday, and they will be fortunate to have ‘shopfreak’s review when it comes time to make their tablesaw acquisition. Some may even decide to ignore your (EE, GM, ajose, & Wchuck) “better” advice.

Keep up the good work ‘shopfreak. Can’t wait to watch your next video.

-- Just 'cause a cat has kittens in the oven, it don't make 'em biscuits.

Actually you can fit a much better saw in your shop for little money, but I guess you don’t want to hear about it.

Nice review Tyler. It is refreshing to see your excitement as you share your saw with us, thank you for sharing. always work safely and you will learn much and enjoy your efforts for a long time to come.

-- Brad,--"The way to eat an eliphant is one bite at a time"

Pitchin, your not helping matters much.

I don’t get you woodchuck, are you out to make enemys

-- Tyler, Illinois

Tyler, please explain your comment.

Woodchuck, it seems like all of your comments have no positive value at all. I read them and they don’t seem benefit anyone on this site. When you joined Lumberjocks is this what you thought it was for, telling other people that the products they have suck and that yours are so much better. I know when I joined Lumberjocks it was to improve my “skills” (not products) and meet some people that share a love for woodworking. Seems as though you have lost site of what this place is for.

And by the way I have measured contractor saws from just about anywhere, and your right I could fit one in my shop, but I would have absolutely no room to walk, and therefore would be a safety hazard and annoyance.

-- Tyler, Illinois

Tyler its what you do with your tools not how much they cost or what brand they are!

Great reveiw, ignore the people who have nothing good to say!

Thanks for the post

Callum

-- For wood working podcasts with a twist check out http://thetimberkid.com/

Oh gawd, why do I bother ? GOODLUCK !

Guys, guys!!

Some of you are missing the point completely!

I never said it’s cost or brand that counts, or that Woodshopfreak wasn’t doing a good job. I think it’s great to see a young person do what he is doing, and I especiallly agree with the constructive use of his time doing wood working as opposed to playing video games, etc. all the time.

The points (in my opinion) were/is:

1. I disagreed with his “great” overall rating as well as some of things he considered “cool.”

2. It would have been better to ask the LJ’s what they thought of that saw and whether they thought that there might be other or better options before he “wrote the check”.

3. The important thing in tool acquisition is to plan what is needed now and in the future, and find the most cost effective solution as you work each step of the plan. For the serious woodworker, the cheapest is usually not the best solution.

4. As an guy getting close to my sunset years, I feel a sense of responsibility to help the young folks to not make the same mistakes that I did. Therefore – hopefully Woodshopfreak will use all the resources available the next time he needs to make a major purchase.

5. I would hate to see future LJ’s who are looking for a saw to be mislead by reading this review.

6. There are a lot of good and bad things in the world, and we do nobody any favors by over looking the bad. The hard part is to do it without becoming part of the problem and to disagree without being disagreeable. I’ll admit that I am far from knowing how to do that.

So—- Having said that, Happy 2009 to every one. Don’t get too many slivers, and don’t cut youurself or smash your finger!!

-- Joe

Woohoo! Touched a nerve here, did I?

Let me amplify a little…

Two years ago (or thereabouts), I was faced with a similar decision on table saws. I figured about $200. I looked at this saw (or its close cousin – Sears changes their part numbers quiet often lately). You are right, DaveH, I have no experience using this saw. That’s because I looked at it on the Sears floor and rejected it before I ever bought it. I could tell by looking at the fence that it wasn’t square to the table. I ran the table extensions all the way out and found that I could deflect them more than 1/4” with just a little pressure. How much do you think they would deflect with a full sheet of plywood? A quick measurement with the 3’ tape measure I keep on my keychain showed that the blade was not even close to being aligned to the table. I’ll make allowances for floor samples but wouldn’t you think that Sears would want to make a good impression with their floor sample?

Let me speak plainly: I consider this saw downright dangerous! I have enough trouble keeping my fingers with a saw that is tuned up properly and doesn’t flex and turn anytime I push stock through it.

And let me state one more time: that is my opinion!

To all of those who emailed to tell me to keep my comments to myself: What? Did I wake up in communist China? Is this an open, free forum or are comments to be censored if they happen to disagree with the poster?

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

EE, face it. It’s an awesome saw for a 14 yr old know it all rookie that doesn’t want to listen. Consider the source and let him learn the hard way. I’m pretty much done with the kid since in his words, I don’t bennefit anyone on this site. Some people just don’t want to listen to reality.

Woodchuck, why do you feel the need to post your most recent comment in the public view and not PM EE?

-- Ron Central, CA

RAH, funny you ask me that question here and not in a PM. Practice what you preach.

Wow you guys are animals. At this point who cares. I acually find it fun to wake up and read the comments it gives me a good laugh. Ee engineer I could see why you would think the flor model sucked. They do. Our floor model has the whole top scratched all the parts are missing and the fence is falling off. That’s because some 18 year old minimum wage kid put it together and didn’t care. Then little kids come abuse it. I have mine set dead on and it cuts very well. I have made jigs to compinsate for the miter gauges falts. And by the way you can change the blade angle to make it parallel with the miter slots and fence. They are underneath.

-- Tyler, Illinois

Tyler,

I hope this saw works well for you, and does it for a long, long time. I, personally, wouldn’t have invested my money in one of these, but it sounds like you’re happy with your purchase. I’m glad…and if you continue to be happy with it, I may snag one of these myself one of these days ;). I was pretty impressed with the capacity you showed on that little saw.

To add some weight, perhaps you could build a wooden, mobile base that can accomodate the dust bag underneath the saw. A fold down outfeed table in the back as well. I have a book with plans for something similar. Let me know if you’re interested and I’ll dig it out and get you the information. Just bolt the bench top saw down and you’re ready to rock!

-- "Give me your poor tools, your tired steel, your huddled masses of rust." Yep, I ripped off the Statue of Liberty. That's how I roll!

Also I never said “I don’t bennefit anyone on this site” I said I don’t bennifit form people like that make negitive remarks. The point is I got the saw so there is no point in thelling me my saw ins not adiquite. What is done is done. It’s not like I can go back in time and change my mind. If I had a Forum open for your thoughts on this saw, all the comments would be more than appropriate but the point is, I ALREADY have the saw and I can’t change that I already bought it. So you can just chill out a bit, all of this is for nothing and I feel like we are acting so immature about the whole thing. Please just forget everything and I would love to do the same.

-- Tyler, Illinois

woodshopfreak – let me offer an olive branch… peace between us. I’ve been there, I’ve done that. You gotta make the best of whatever you got, use it to the best of your abilities and wait for the next upgrade. You are just takin’ this way too personal. No matter what you think, this was never an attack on you. What I hate is that saw and, more importantly, what that saw represents in terms of American marketing and manufacturing in terms of what that saw represents!

Do you realize that the saw I bought and refurbished, a 40-year-old, neglected table saw that I spent the better part of 2 years refurbishing, represents the lowest end of table saws that were offered 40 years ago? And yet, it is far, far better than what is offered now as the lowest end. Table saws are really simple machines; there is only a few simple things they have to do to be a table saw! Not a good table saw; an adequate table saw. They have to cut wood – a given. They should cut wood square – a given in terms of matching joints; if they don’t meet at 90 degrees, how in the hell can you possibly do matching right angle joints? I will not belabor this point! If you managed to get acceptable performance from this machine, then you are at the same point I was 30 years (and more recently, if truth be told), teasing better performance than anybody had any right to expect out of inferior machinery.

American manufacturing is sliding down a slippery slope; far from being the best, we are sliding to providing the shittiest, cheapest product that anyone in the world produces; is that what we should aspire to? We produce things that are called table saws, but they cannot manage what any table saw should do. Where are the “truth in advertising” laws that America invented and prosecuted? Quite frankly, why in the hell isn’t Sears being prosecuted for offering this model as a a table saw when it doesn’t meet any criteria other than cutting wood?

Forgive an old curnudgeon! Forgive me for claiming that far from being an “AWESOME TABLE SAW” this is only a pale ghost of what America used to offer as a table saw! It sucks! And it deserves to be labeled as sucks!

Enough said!

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

Wow, some grumps out there today(come now it’s a new year, let’s not start it off on the wrong foot). Woodshopfreak, great video review, be nice if we could get others (including myself) to do some reviews. My first ts was a bench-top craftsman that could truly be called “crap”!!! Yours is quite far up on the quality level when compared to mine! This looks like a good learning saw for you, and I’m sure when you are ready to replace it you will have a whole list of things you like and dislike. It’s that way with every tool, you learn each time you buy one or use one. Again, great review and thanks for posting it.

I just remembered my number one pet peeve on my first ts, the t-slot was bent on the ends and as such I had to grind everything to fit into them!!!

-- Let's make some firewood!

i like pie. I think that settled things.

-- check out my amazing woodburning , Pat

Hey Woodshopfreak! Good for you dude! I don’t care if you went and bought Harbor Freights cheapest, or the most expensive on the market, the thing is that you are not just sitting in front of the computer or the video games wasting all your free time away. That fact alone is worth many kudos in this day and age. Enjoy your hobby, and be safe. Look forward to seeing some projects from you!

-- No matter where you go, there you are.

Hi Woodshopfreak,

It’s good to see that I’m not the only person out there with this saw. Like you I got mine the day after turkey day, and got the big deal on it. I did not have much money to spend but was in bad need of a table saw, plus its my first table saw. I really agree with your review and the video is really good to. The 2 extension are a big plus and the fact that its so portable are really good. The only question I have is, how out of square did it come out of the box? Mine was pretty bad about 1/8” or so, which I ended up repositioning the table to fix.

Brian, my saw was pretty much fine out of the box. the fence was off but it has screws in the front that I just made loose and then squared the fence to the blade, then retightened.

-- Tyler, Illinois

Hey Tyler, I think EEngineer, ajosephg, and Woodchuck’s responses all were triggered because of the title you put with this review: AWESOME TABLE SAW

mind you, LJ is a global woodworking website where we all share and benefit from each other’s experiences and opinions, and with sharing there is some responsibility involved.

consider the new woodworker that wants to buy a new table saw, and checks the review section on LJ. he’ll see one table saw that is AWESOME! and has a cool fence, and might just go ahead and buy that saw based on this Title, where in fact, the same person could have gone with a hybrid saw, or contractor saw, or heck – maybe even a cabinet saw which would be much better suited for fine woodworking.

I don’t think any of the remarks were too much off the wall, and none were aimed at YOU personally, but were just opinions of the opposite spectrum. maybe the title would have been more fitting as “great portable saw for the money”? food for thought.

I currently have the Bosch portable saw, and it is great for what it is, it is portable (although I don’t really need that now), has one of the best safety devices on the market (it’s riving knife design is the best), and a pretty good fence. with all that said and done, I still don’t consider it an AWESOME table saw, and would eventually upgrade it to a more precise/stable/cast-iron machine.

enjoy your new saw!

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

I have this same saw. It works real well for me (so far). I have some cons about it like it is not as sturdy as I would like, the miter gauge is not universal at all, and can’t seem to find a zero clearance plate for it. It is light and portable. Works great for my first saw, however I will be upgrading hopefully within the next year. But overall I pleased with it as my first saw for a very limited space and for the money

I was reading the review of this saw and noticed all the comments from the “older” generation and I had to weigh in with my opinion (why not … everyone else is).

Somewhere in here someone mentioned that they’re trying to help the younger generation, blah, blah, blah … and that if they knew then what they know now, blah, blah, blah … of course if you knew then what you know now you’d do things different … everybody would do things differently.

With regards to getting the best bang for your buck … of course you want to purchase the best tool you can, but not everyone can afford huge bucks. If (when I bought my first car) I could have bought a Corvette instead of a Chevy Nova I would have.

You get the best you can afford at the time … telling people to save up their money to buy better is a silly thing to say (in my humble opinion). That’s like waiting to buy something until the price comes down, well by the time you’re ready to buy there’s something better on the market … but it costs more than you’re willing to spend (again).

Just cut (pardon the pun) Woodshopfreak some slack … remember this is HIS review of the table saw … not yours. An experienced shopper will no doubt read this review and many others before committing to buying a table saw. Your opinion is yours and yours alone, don’t force it upon anyone else.

Remember when you were young and full of piss & vinegar … you didn’t want to listen to anyones advice and you made your own mistakes. Woodshopfreak will make his too … and he’ll learn from them just as you learned from yours.

-- Try not. Do or do not, there is no try