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Excellent Saw for the Cost

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Review by Wodbug posted 03-17-2011 03:18 PM 7121 views 1 time favorited 23 comments Add to Favorites Watch
Excellent Saw for the Cost No-picture-s No-picture-s Click the pictures to enlarge them

After reading the many reviews here both pro & con, and seeing the many years all of them were written, I thought to start a new thread to add my 2 cents worth. My saw was bought in 2005, replacing a 25 year old 10” Craftsman that was given to a close friend.
The pro & cons: The fence is quite flimsy and very difficult to keep adjusted, so I bought a 26” utility fence from Rockler. After a tedius install having to drilll additional holes for brackets, and using some angled aluminum bars for reinforcement, great results and a very good fence.
Saw alignment, out of the box, was excellent; have had to realign once over the years and the experience taught me to be a contortionist. 3 years so far and still aligned. The side wings leave very much to be desired.
The dust chute works vey well even with a small shop vac. The gears and adjustment parts need air pressure cleaning now & then, but what saw doesn’t?
Factory wiring is for 120V, which produces about 1.5HP. After talking with Hitachi and advised 220V would produce 3HP, I changed the wiring. What a difference; Startup is almost instant with no spoolup; the torque produced had me bolting the legs to the shop floor. There is no loss of speed even when ripping oak and other hard wood, and minimal vibration. The motor is completely sealed from dust and chips.
The slots in both miter tracks have high spots that will cause the OEM miter gauge to wobble. So, I bought a precision miter from Rockler with an adjustable lower bar which helped a little. I am now in he process of grinding the high spots with my dremel; hope this will fix the problem. Hitachi would have replaced the table if I had discovered this issue during warranty. Oh well…
I have searched the net for cast iron wings for this saw but it seems Delta is the only maker and they have not produced any for many months now. Delta has been sold and is now a Chinese company. Sad, my search is over, I do not need a router extension wing.
For the money, you will not find a better saw, even having to purchase the aftermarket items and I recommend this saw for anyone with a home shop and a short budget. Try to buy a 3HP saw anywhere for $500.00.




View Wodbug's profile

Wodbug

11 posts in 1372 days



23 comments so far

View richgreer's profile

richgreer

4525 posts in 1797 days


#1 posted 03-17-2011 03:39 PM

This is an excellent, well written review that is of value to LJs. Thank you.

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.

View TheBossQ's profile

TheBossQ

82 posts in 1415 days


#2 posted 03-17-2011 04:16 PM

Thanks for posting your review.

I have no doubt that the saw performs better wired for 220v, however, if Hitachi told you it produces 3hp just from rewiring for 220v, they lied to you (whether intentionally or out of ignorance).

If there is truely a large difference (i.e. twice the cutting performance) after rewiring, then there is something else going on electrically.

A 1.5hp motor produces 1.5hp whether wired for 110 or 220. The only difference is efficiency and amp draw. Whatever the label says on the motor, that is the motor’s output.

View Rob Lopez's profile

Rob Lopez

9 posts in 1912 days


#3 posted 03-17-2011 06:08 PM

According to the Specs, this is a 3HP motor.

15-Amp 10” Table Saw
15 Amp induction motor (3.0 HP)
27” x 40” table top with extension wing
Blade tilt and blade height adjustment knobs up front for easy access
Table top angle scale

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=159372-46578-C10FL&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=1038299&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=sim&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

Now there is a difference in performance 110 vs. 220. I have seen that myself. If the motor can run at 220, and you have the 220, run it at 220. The tool will be much better.

-- Boards, Don't hit back! - Bruce Lee

View Wodbug's profile

Wodbug

11 posts in 1372 days


#4 posted 03-17-2011 06:40 PM

TheBossQ. Well, since you are not able to see for yourself the improvement and obviously an electrical expert, then I guess the point is moot for any further discussion.
I have lived long enough to understand motor specs. Hitachi did not lie to me so let me clarify my comment as probably I should have before to prevent some from lecturing. If I was to test the HP 120V, the HP would not reach 3 HP and when ripping hard wood the speed would be affected, which I have experienced. Hitachi simply said that full 3HP and full speed/power ratio would be attained with wiring 220V.
I am a new member here so maybe it is a rule to defer to the “experts”. If so, then my membership here is also a moot point.
A profound thanks to those who appreciated my experience with the saw. I hope it added to all’s knowledge. I also thank all you who have reviewed this saw; a lot of information is now available for those shopping for a good saw.

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

112525 posts in 2299 days


#5 posted 03-17-2011 06:47 PM

Welcome to Ljs wodbug
I guess the 3hp thing is a no load HP kinda like sears rates it’s motors. I’m glad you have enjoyed your saw and have taken the time to write a well written review.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View Dusty56's profile

Dusty56

11678 posts in 2410 days


#6 posted 03-17-2011 08:42 PM

Some interesting reading and charts regarding voltage / amps / HP ratings
http://www.kevinsbrady.net/motors.pdf

-- I'm absolutely positive that I couldn't be more uncertain!

View WaywardHoosier's profile

WaywardHoosier

80 posts in 2757 days


#7 posted 03-17-2011 08:48 PM

This saw is no longer offered by Hitachi. They currently do have one portable version.

Saws are dropped and added more by Company takeovers and supplier contract agreements than saw performance. Reviews of discontinued saws are helpful for searching used saws at a great price.

I am in the market for a good AND affordable saw and I appreciate all reviews. In my extensive searches, I am finding that almost all saws are made by a handful of Chinese and Taiwanese manufacturers. You have to keep searching the source of the saw.

China is such a factor in today’s consumer machine industry.

-- WaywardHoosier - Behind schedule and over budget, but who's counting? Well of course she is!

View Kenshu's profile

Kenshu

23 posts in 2091 days


#8 posted 03-17-2011 09:29 PM

I believe this saw was replaced by the Porter Cable PCB270 TS. I have purchased this saw and I am very satisfied with it for the cost.

-- The second mouse gets the cheese.

View Wodbug's profile

Wodbug

11 posts in 1372 days


#9 posted 03-18-2011 04:26 AM

Thanks a1JIm, Hoosier & Kenshu. It has been discontinued for a while now, although I have seen them in several Lowe’s here in Fl and in Louisiana recently. The C10Fl & Porter Cable PCB 270 are the same TS, with what appears to be several modifications to the cabinet and the caster lift.
Hoosier, you might get your local Lowe’s to find one for you with maybe being able to transfer it to your store for pickup; Lowe’s has done this for me several times when my store was out-of-stock.
Kenshu, you will need to be a string of spaghetti when you align your blade, if ever. A small small angle pry bar is most helpful, as are a second pair of hands.
Thanks guys.

View WaywardHoosier's profile

WaywardHoosier

80 posts in 2757 days


#10 posted 03-18-2011 05:56 PM

Woodbug, yes that is a good way to check selection, Ihave been contemplating that. A fellow worker purchsed the Porter Cable PCB270 TSand is very pleased with it (and he is a “perfectionist”).

I notice the power tools in the Home Depot and Lowes in the more economically depressed areas of St. Louis sell for less, are still in stock, or get reduced more for a greater savings.

I will check it out

-- WaywardHoosier - Behind schedule and over budget, but who's counting? Well of course she is!

View TheBossQ's profile

TheBossQ

82 posts in 1415 days


#11 posted 03-18-2011 06:29 PM

Sorry if I offended you. That was not my intent. You do not have to defer to anyone (experts or otherwise) and no, that is not a rule here.

Dusty56 posted a link to factual, scientific data regarding the way some manufacturers rate motor output.

Good luck to you.

View schmo's profile

schmo

11 posts in 1412 days


#12 posted 03-19-2011 02:11 PM

I too am new to LJs and purchase this saw a year ago. The only change I made to it so far was to add angle iron to the front and back legs for extra bracing. I have a small shop and most equip is on wheeled bases.

I have had no problems with the saw at all. Cuts are straight and true. On my “hobby budget”. This was a best buy for the money.

View Jim Bertelson's profile

Jim Bertelson

3681 posts in 1887 days


#13 posted 03-19-2011 07:16 PM

Is it possible that this motor when rewired for 220 actually uses more coils, and conversely only half the coils on 110. Ignorant about motors, here, just don’t know if someone actually makes a motor like that. I have rewired all my big motors (two saws and a DC) for 220. Not to get more HP, but to reduce amp load on the house wiring, and indeed it worked. But these motors act pretty much the same, probably because they had good feeds in the first place. I also had an electrician come in and go over the whole house, and he tightened the feeds to the house and at each panel, and that helped. I feed my TS and RAS one one 220 circuit, and the DC on its own 220 circuit. The cord to the TS is 12 gauge, to minimize any voltage drop.

-- Jim, Anchorage Alaska

View tt1106's profile

tt1106

112 posts in 1791 days


#14 posted 03-20-2011 02:24 AM

I also have this saw. Got it for 300 from criagslist about a year and a half ago. With a freud blade and dado set it has ripped and sawn through a couple hundred board feet of oak and I can’t even begin to count the pine and poplar. I found replacement gears for the blade tilt mechanism (it was crunchy when I got it) from ereplacementparts.com. Currently using an incra 1000 and two sleds. The wings are cheap and one of them looks crinkled from either moving the saw or from being out of alignment when put together. Otherwise, I am very happy with the saw also. It cuts very well. I have it wired for 110 as the garage doesn’t have 220. I bought this to replace an 80 dollar protech (bwaaahahahaha) saw that walked all over my garage. At the time I bought it, the same saw was on display at Lowes for 599, so I’m pretty happy with it. Best wishes Wodbug, I love mine.
Two things this is what looks like plugged up(note dust coming out front of saw in pic 1) and the homemade outfeed came with the saw. (see below)
http://lumberjocks.com/tt1106/workshop

-- -Todd

View Wodbug's profile

Wodbug

11 posts in 1372 days


#15 posted 03-23-2011 03:44 PM

Thanks Jim. The following is an excerpt from the new Shopsmith Mark VII review: _The PowerPro power source is a huge addition to the Shopsmith line.

To begin, the new digital variable reluctance (DVR) motor provides 1¾ horsepower when wired to a 120-volt circuit and 2 horsepower if you’re wired with 240 volts. Link to review:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/tools/the-new-mark-vii-from-shopsmith?et_mid=224159&rid=3341918

So, I assume these folks know what they are talking about since they are the professionals. Many folks do not believe a gain in HP is possible by switching to 220V. I assure you it is and the gain is in proportion with the number of coils (and windings), their impedance, and the voltage increase.
I love this saw and how it performs with 220V. It does Rock! As I said, I had to bolt the durn thing to the shop floor to keep it from jerking so hard on startup.
If you can find a god used C10FL, get it. One final thought: With the motor inside the cab and the short V belt used, with 5 years of medium use, the belt still looks new and no stretch whatsoever. Sweet. Regular cleaning of the gears is necessary as fine sawdust does gather in the gear grooves.

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