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A Review & Comparison of the Lie-Nielsen 10ppi & 15ppi Rip Carcass Saws

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Review by ChrisG posted 1632 days ago 4773 views 0 times favorited 6 comments Add to Favorites Watch
A Review & Comparison of the Lie-Nielsen 10ppi & 15ppi Rip Carcass Saws A Review & Comparison of the Lie-Nielsen 10ppi & 15ppi Rip Carcass Saws No-picture-s Click the pictures to enlarge them

Due to some fortunate circumstances, which I will explain at the end of this review, I recently had the opportunity to spend some time working with both of Lie-Nielsen’s Rip Carcass Saws. On Lie-Nielsen’s website, the 15ppi and the 10ppi versions are each referred to as a “nice small tenon saw”. However, this description is grossly understated and incomplete.

With an 11 by 2 ¼ inch saw plate that is only .020 inches thick these are just as similar to LN’s much beloved dovetail saws as they are to a tenon saw. Given that these were the first western saws I’ve had a chance to use, I was very interested in their versatility, and therefore, spent equal amounts of time sawing straight lines, practicing dovetails, and sawing tenons. What follows is my two cents on how each of these saws performed on the various tasks. I won’t bother to describe their beauty or their comfort. You and I have already read far too many articles with descriptions of LN tools that sound more like trashy romance novels than tool reviews. Hope you enjoy!

The 10ppi Course Rip Carcass Saw

What’s that you say? I’m nuts for even thinking to use this as a dovetail saw. Why? If you’re reading this, then you most likely read Chris Schwarz’s recent blog about cutting dovetails with a panel saw. Also, I assume that amongst the endless hours you’ve spent drooling over tools on the internet that you’ve stumbled upon LN’s straight handles dovetails saws, and noticed that they market a 10ppi version.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I tested this saw out on white pine, poplar, red oak and some ¼ inch thick pieces of luan mahogany that were laying around. As one would expect, starting this saw took a little getting used. However, as a sawing novice I was quite comfortable with starting it after a couple of afternoons of use. It’s not that it was difficult to start, but rather, requires one to consciously use as little effort as possible. I found by taking a full, VERY light back-stroke, and then making a point to push forward, not down, on the front stroke, that this baby dove into the wood with an amazing amount of ease. The trick to making the cut light enough is not only to avoid pushing down, but also to make sure the weight of your arm isn’t pressing down on the saw (this quickly becomes second nature). When the saw did get stuck it was typically because I was using too much downward pressure, causing the teeth to create indentations, in which they then would get stuck. When this happened the problem was easily fixed by taking a couple more light back strokes to smooth out the indentations.

Because of the thin saw plate, which measures the same thickness as LN’s dovetail saw, once you get a handle on starting the saw it can work quite well for almost any fine joinery task, including dovetails. It leaves a surface almost as smooth as its 15ppi sibling, and as an added bonus it cuts ridiculously fast (in a good way). Cutting to a line takes a bit of extra concentration, but is certainly doable. However, I found that while this saw worked well on through dovetails, it was challenging to use when cutting pins on half-blinds (but still possible). My assumption is that this is because this task requires one to start on the corner of the board, which means the weight of the saw is on a very small area, making it difficult to remove enough pressure for the saw to start easily.

This baby also handles small tenons well, but I found the saw plate to be a bit short for anything over 2 inches wide. That’s not to say it can’t be used to cut wider tenons, it’s just that at a certain point, the course teeth don’t make up for the missing length that a true sash or tenon saw would have.

So where does this saw excel the most? Well, as the name implies, on wood that is of the thickness that one would use to create carcass joinery. This thing flew effortlessly to its full depth in ¾ inch oak in fewer than 10 strokes, and in this thickness stock it performed equally well on dovetail cuts as it did at 90 degrees. On ½ stock it took even fewer strokes and still started with relative ease. Similarly, cutting tenon cheeks on 1-2 inch wide boards really showed this saw’s abilities.

The 15ppi Rip Carcass Saw

This saw is identical to the 10ppi version in all ways except the tooth count. In most ways both saws performed very similarly. Both cut straight and smooth, and left an identical kerf. Like its 10ppi twin, the 15ppi can handle a wide range of tasks, but as one would expect, it excels in finer work. I will say that after using the courser toothed version this saw felt very slow. To be specific, it literally cuts half as fast as the 10ppi model. On the plus side, it was comparably quite easy to start, and left a slightly cleaner finish. Additionally, I quickly discovered that I had a great deal of control over the speed of the 15ppi version by increasing or decreasing the amount of pressure I applied. I was able to do this somewhat in the 10ppi version as well, but it really only had two speeds: slow and very fast. Despite its slower speed it also handled tenons almost as well as the 10ppi. As mentioned above, its downfall on tenons seemed to be more related to its length than the tooth count.

The real trade off for the slower speed became apparent when cutting dovetails. Because the 15ppi saw allows one to apply a little pressure and still start smoothly, it was easier to hold it precisely on a line at a consistent angle when starting a cut. Also, the slower speed was advantageous when you need to stop precisely at a line. Finally, the small teeth took away all the difficulties I experienced when starting cuts for the pins in half-blind dovetails.

My Difficult Decision

The reason I was able to work with both these saw is quite simple. I was given the 10ppi version for Christmas, and after trying it out for a while decided to exchange it for the 15ppi model. By the way, I feel obligated to mention that the fact that LN allowed me to do this is a real testament to the customer service.

So why did I choose the 15ppi saw. It’s not that I didn’t like the 10ppi. In fact, I loved it and found it difficult to part with. However, I quickly realized that if I kept it I would end up wanting both a finer saw for dovetails and a longer saw for tenons (in addition to a crosscut saw). For a beginning woodworker, just building a hand tool collection, this just didn’t make sense. On a limited budget, why own 3 rip backsaws when the Gospel According to Schwarz states that I can cover just about any joinery task with 2 rip saws (dovetail and tenon), and 1 good sized crosscut saw. I ultimately decided, I would be better served in the long run by exchanging the 10ppi carcass saw for a dedicated dovetail saw. Why I choose the 11 inch, 15ppi carcass saw for this was a matter of personal preference. What can I say, I just really like its feel, and just because it’s not labeled as a dovetail saw doesn’t mean that it can’t serve as well or better than one that is. Plus, until I can get my hands on LN’s 16 inch tenon saw, this baby will handle most tenons that I need to cut. And oh yeah, it does a respectable job on small crosscuts as well (see picture above).

What else can I say. I love both saws, and was I a richer man I would own them both. Either will serve any woodworker, experienced or inexperienced, quite well. However, at the end of the day, I felt that the 15ppi would serve me best.

-Christopher Griggs

-- Christopher Griggs, New Orleans, thewoodlife@gmail.com, http://chrisgriggs.blogspot.com




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ChrisG

18 posts in 1632 days



6 comments so far

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PineInTheAsh

401 posts in 1867 days


#1 posted 1632 days ago

Chris,
Welcome, we can easily tell your writings will definately be an informative source.

Truly appreciate a well written submission you and other reviewers who take the valuable time to present their thoughts on woodworking tools.

You may be/could be a “richer man,” but we readers are less so when you don’t reveal the MSRP and your purchase price.

Why reviewers continue to omit pricing is a puzzle, a damn shame, and lessens otherwise excellent reviews and efforts.

—Peter

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a1Jim

111999 posts in 2176 days


#2 posted 1632 days ago

Great review

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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ChrisG

18 posts in 1632 days


#3 posted 1632 days ago

Peter – Thanks for the feedback. Each of the saws sell for $137 on LN’s and Highland Woodworking’s websites, which is what was paid (although as I mentioned in the review, the saw was a gift, so technically I paid nothing). Anyway, you are correct, listing the price is a good idea and I will be sure to do it in the future.

-- Christopher Griggs, New Orleans, thewoodlife@gmail.com, http://chrisgriggs.blogspot.com

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8iowa

1489 posts in 2360 days


#4 posted 1632 days ago

If Chris Schwarz says it…..............it must be so!

-- "Heaven is North of the Bridge"

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CottageWorkshop

12 posts in 1699 days


#5 posted 1631 days ago

Nice review! I have the coarse rip carcass (10ppi) and love it. I, too thought to have as few saws needed. However, using quality saws like these and getting good at it can be very enjoyable and addictive. I’ve since purchased the x-cut carcass and the prog pitch dovetail saws. I plan on saving for a tenon saw but am undecided on the type and brand. I’m leaning toward the Bad-Axe saws : )

I personally don’t find the omission of your purchase price to be “damn shame”. Chances are you’re reading this on the internet and a few clicks on LieNielsen.com would reveal what you need to know. It may be different it it were a comparative review between different saw makers though.

-- Visit me in the Cottage Workshop! www.richardmagbanua.blogspot.com

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Gary2

25 posts in 1559 days


#6 posted 1557 days ago

That no-pressure thing is really a challenge. Deep breaths, clear your mind, enjoy the moment.

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