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View Stevinmarin's profile

Plan scam.

by Stevinmarin
posted 06-29-2010 05:59 PM


36 replies so far

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8476 posts in 2335 days


#1 posted 06-29-2010 06:04 PM

that sux!

I wonder if anything can be done about it – esp. since you said he’s posting The NYW on his channel…

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View uffitze's profile

uffitze

199 posts in 1642 days


#2 posted 06-29-2010 06:09 PM

From wikipedia, .tk is the country code top domain for Tokelau (a territory of New Zealand).

In the wikipedia entry, they reference a McAfee survey that determined .tk domains were twice as likely as the global average to be used for “unwanted behaviors”, including scams such as phishing and spam.

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1128 posts in 2557 days


#3 posted 06-29-2010 06:12 PM

Thanks Steve, depends on where they are at ,if you can do any thing , We have had them pirate our DVD’s and put them up for pay upload, nothing is sacred, the issue is they are usually out of the country and simply put no one seems to care…and the cost of pursuit is unreal, seems folks will sell their souls for a $ , but its alerts like this that help a alot, but then again, its sorry to say many will buy them , even knowing they are buying pirated material, as long as its cheap.. its sad..

View Stevinmarin's profile

Stevinmarin

837 posts in 1762 days


#4 posted 06-29-2010 06:15 PM

Oh, I just found that article about this. It’s in the May 2010 (# 197) issue of Wood. Check Tom Iovino aka: The Shop Monkey’s article. Maybe it’s on his blog over at Wood.

-- Entertainment for mere mortal woodworkers. http://www.WoodworkingForMereMortals.com

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8476 posts in 2335 days


#5 posted 06-29-2010 06:24 PM

I agree Charles – it IS sad, especially since this is such a small niche of a market. there the percentages being hit by piracy are higher than any other market (not saying that piracy in other markets is legit – just that the market share hit by it is smaller). I really wish there was a way to fight back, and do anything legally.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View ddockstader's profile

ddockstader

114 posts in 1948 days


#6 posted 06-29-2010 06:46 PM

There is another site, too, advertising 16,000 plans (apparently they bought the 14,000 plan DVD and added 2,000 more that he hadn’t scarfed off the Internet). Apparently pirates still attack pirates just like they did in the 18th century!

View GregD's profile

GregD

622 posts in 1823 days


#7 posted 06-29-2010 06:47 PM

Steve & Charles – If its any consolation to you , I can’t be the only one that will pass on the pirated stuff and view or buy the stuff that I want from legitimate sources. I hope that there are enough of us out here that are happy to work with your business models so that the “shrinkage” of your business by leeches like this isn’t a big deal.

-- Greg D.

View swirt's profile

swirt

1946 posts in 1658 days


#8 posted 06-29-2010 06:52 PM

If they have taken anything that belongs to you, you can send then a Digital Millenium Copyright Act notice asking it to be removed. If they don’t remove it then you can file a DMCA complaint with Google and the other big search engines and Google, Yahoo and Bing will remove the content from showing up in searches.
http://www.google.com/dmca.html

It does work… but it takes a while.

You can also notify the hosting company and they are obligated to take it down, ... if they are a reputable host, but likely the same guy doing the ripping off is his own host. Still it is worth a shot.

-- Galootish log blog, http://www.timberframe-tools.com

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3859 posts in 2349 days


#9 posted 06-29-2010 08:49 PM

One way we can all fight this thievery is refuse to buy from these sites. Remember … if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

I work in a business (computer software) that is always under attack by creeps like this. We defend ourselves and protect our intellectual property as vehemently as we can, but Charles is right … chasing these bozoes down can be an expensive proposition, and the off-shore thieves (which is where most seem to be) are almost impossible to get shut down.

We’ve filed DMCA notices, but as Swirt points out, it can take a long time. In our experience, it is sort of like when the cops clamp down on prostitution … they step on it in one place and it just bubbles up in another.

Doesn’t mean we tolerate it … we fight like hell every opportunity we get.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View TomHintz's profile

TomHintz

207 posts in 2085 days


#10 posted 06-29-2010 09:28 PM

I have the good fortune to have a large legal firm that has several devout woodworkers among the senior partners. They enjoy going after people that infringe on my plans and content but so far we have been able to work out a decent agreement without crushing someone int eh process. Except for a guy doing this DVD thing where he was selling my plans. He was from Austrailia but selling the DVD’s through an outfit in California. The legal guys took him down quickly and it even got one of the people in the California part of the operation put in jail on unrelated warrants that came up during the investigation. the main guy has been charged by the authorities in his home country and so far, appears to be out of business.
If it were not for these lawyers liking my site and donating their efforts I would never be able to do all this but it is nice to see a true rip-off artist get what is coming to him once in a while.

-- Tom Hintz, www.newwoodworker.com

View SCOTSMAN's profile

SCOTSMAN

5414 posts in 2272 days


#11 posted 06-29-2010 09:37 PM

I have bought mostly good quality genuine dvd’s on woodworking/turning etc but then a few were poor copies of dvd’s that were made by Richard Raffan etc a guy I have a lot of time for in terms of woodturning.
Charles Neil
what you say is true about buying cheap copies but then when people see that cheap means quality is cheap too.I once saw a guy buy a dvd of a big feature film and he told me that in the middle of the film a guy got up from his seat walked across throught the seats to go to the toilet it had been filmed in the cinema full of peopleLOL AlistairAlistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1802 days


#12 posted 06-29-2010 09:55 PM

as a guy who can´t affort much I still salute those who had the will and power to
fight pirates and other who make scams on honest working people

KEEP FIGHTING IT PAYS IN THE LONG RUN

Dennis

View Stevinmarin's profile

Stevinmarin

837 posts in 1762 days


#13 posted 06-29-2010 11:13 PM

Okay, just because this is sticking in my craw, I looked deeper into that guy’s web site.

Apparently he offers an “affiliate program”. In other words, a multi-level marketing program. In other words, a pyramid scheme to make him richer without lifting a finger. This also means that there are probably a lot of other web sites set up to sell more of this stuff.

I have half a mind to make my own video response. Hmm. Let me think about this.

EDIT:

I did a bit more checking. Yep…there are a LOT of these web sites. All with the identical layout. Most have wood(4)home or something similar in the URL. Dot coms and other domains. Each guy sets up a sham YouTube channel too.

Yep. Look for my video soon. At least I can reach 1500 YouTube subscribers and countless Lumberjocks. Hehehe….

-- Entertainment for mere mortal woodworkers. http://www.WoodworkingForMereMortals.com

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1128 posts in 2557 days


#14 posted 06-29-2010 11:37 PM

Steve, ’ half a mind ”, I agree and welcome to the club, ( sorry couldnt resist), and while im not exactly sure what to say or which direction to point folks in, let me know, I got a pretty big mouth as well , ( dont ‘yall even go there, :) ) , and lets see what Marc is up to … he** I love a good commion cause fight.. Im in

View jockmike2's profile

jockmike2

10635 posts in 2933 days


#15 posted 06-30-2010 12:00 AM

You guys are evil, GO GET EM!!!!!!

-- (You just have to please the man in the Mirror) Mike from Michigan -

View tyskkvinna's profile

tyskkvinna

1308 posts in 1672 days


#16 posted 06-30-2010 12:01 AM

I hope you have contacted the people behind NYW to let them know – they may have a bit more manpower to stop this.

http://www.manta.com/c/mm8r6zs/morash-associates

-- Lis - Michigan - http://www.missmooseart.com - https://www.etsy.com/people/lisbokt

View Stevinmarin's profile

Stevinmarin

837 posts in 1762 days


#17 posted 06-30-2010 12:23 AM

Okay, I need some help for my public service announcement. Please post here a list of all the reputable web sites to obtain plans that you can recommend. A good place to start is to promote and encourage them.

If you have personal experience with them, let me know.

When I compile a bunch, I will include them in the video and post them, maybe along with your testimonials, on my blog and, my LJ blog, and YouTube.

I am not going to mention the scam sites by name but will make it very clear what to look for.

I mean really, software picacy and music piracy has been really clamped down on. I suspect a lot of pirated woodworking plans are created by individuals without financial resources to fight back.

-- Entertainment for mere mortal woodworkers. http://www.WoodworkingForMereMortals.com

View thewoodwhisperer's profile

thewoodwhisperer

601 posts in 2870 days


#18 posted 06-30-2010 12:23 AM

As you can imagine, this type of thing is a frequent topic of discussion in the Spagnuolo house. We constantly find torrents of our finishing DVD and we even found some guy in the UK that sells copies on Ebay. He photocopies the sleeve too and puts it in with the pirated DVD! I spoke with Anatole over at Fine Woodworking, because I noticed he also sold a number of Taunton products. He basically said, “Don’t get me started. We’ve been after that guy for years!”. Reporting copyright infringement to Ebay UK does absolutely nothing. So you move on.

I did have some success having my content removed from scraping websites. That is, sites that use our RSS feeds to populate their site with content. These are a dime a dozen, but the Google DMCA does usually work with these turd buckets. Problem is, the process of filing a report is a bit of a pain. No email.

As more and more people produce their own content, this is just going to get worse. Unfortunately, this is the nature of digital content. Its made to be copied and the copies are perfect.

As much as this type of thing could affect my financial future, it saddens me that I don’t have a good solution, other than to continue moving forward and hoping that people realize we aren’t a huge business. We need every sale we can get.

-- For free video tutorials and other cool woodworking stuff, check out http://www.TheWoodWhisperer.com

View reggiek's profile

reggiek

2240 posts in 1957 days


#19 posted 06-30-2010 12:26 AM

It is sad that there are folks that either don’t want to, or simply will not do an honest days work for an honest days wage. Instead they waste significant amounts of time and energy concocting scams or stealing the work of folks that do the real hard work.

I hate thieves…they hurt everyone….I have heard some folks lament that if the honest guys would lower their prices to a reasonable level then no one would steal the work. You get tired of having to explain that it is the fact that people steal the work and do not pay for it that causes a lot of the price increase. An honest company must cover its costs…and make a profit…in order to operate….when someone steals their work…(thus reducing the legitimate sales) then the legit business has to either raise his prices to make up for those lost sales (in order to cover the costs and the profit that they were originally entitled to but are now denied) or go out of business. There is also the costs of trying to protect the work (anti – pirating) that has to be factored in as well.

It is not the “rich businesses” that can aford it that are hurt…it is all of us that end up having to pay for these thieves “free ride.” It should anger everyone….If more folks turned these dolts in….or refused to buy from them…it would surely stop alot of this activity….and probably make things a lot more cheaper for the rest of us.

-- Woodworking.....My small slice of heaven!

View Stevinmarin's profile

Stevinmarin

837 posts in 1762 days


#20 posted 06-30-2010 12:34 AM

Marc,

The Wood Whisperer will be top of the list of reputable sites. I think we can fight this at least a bit, through awareness (I never thought I would actually use that word!) and getting the word out as much as we can. I’ve got a pretty big mouth.

-- Entertainment for mere mortal woodworkers. http://www.WoodworkingForMereMortals.com

View thewoodwhisperer's profile

thewoodwhisperer

601 posts in 2870 days


#21 posted 06-30-2010 12:53 AM

I don’t have a big mouth but my megaphone is quite powerful. :) Awareness is a good thing. I like the idea of assembling a list of reputable plan sites. Would be awesome to have a master list anyway. I get that question from folks all the time. And since I don’t often use plans, I usually rattle a few off the top of my head. I think a list like this would find a permanent home on my links page.

-- For free video tutorials and other cool woodworking stuff, check out http://www.TheWoodWhisperer.com

View tyskkvinna's profile

tyskkvinna

1308 posts in 1672 days


#22 posted 06-30-2010 03:00 AM

It takes a little shoehorning to make it fit into subjects of The Geek Group but I’d also be happy to showcase the list of reputable places to get plans from. We have a lot of DIY’ers and I am certain people would greatly prefer to get from the Real Deal. We have a pretty large audience, so I’m sure it’d make at least a little impact.

-- Lis - Michigan - http://www.missmooseart.com - https://www.etsy.com/people/lisbokt

View Stevinmarin's profile

Stevinmarin

837 posts in 1762 days


#23 posted 06-30-2010 04:21 AM

Okay guys, here are a few links that I am 100% confident with off the top of my head. I am sure there are plenty more that are escaping me at the moment. Hit me up with them!

http://shop.thewoodwhisperer.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=67 The Wood Whisperer is synonymous with fine woodworking. Marc also has DVDs for purchase as well as countless free video tutorials.

http://www.woodsmith.com/plans/ Woodsmith. Tons of downloadable plans. Super clear instructions. I have used them many times.

http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-plans/ Wood Magazine. I have subscribed to them for years. Top-notch outfit with excellent plans. Large selection. Individual PDF downloads. Many free plans.

http://www.rockler.com Rockler is a name I can always trust. Awesome customer service.

http://www.newyankee.com/collection.php The New Yankee Workshop, of course. You can buy plans and videos of all the projects Norm made on his show.

http://plansnow.com/ Plans Now. 3 membership plans, from free to $29.99 per year.

-- Entertainment for mere mortal woodworkers. http://www.WoodworkingForMereMortals.com

View Stevinmarin's profile

Stevinmarin

837 posts in 1762 days


#24 posted 06-30-2010 04:25 AM

@Lis and Marc: thanks. That would be great! I’ll keep compiling this list and post it seperately when it is at a reasonable length.

-- Entertainment for mere mortal woodworkers. http://www.WoodworkingForMereMortals.com

View poopiekat's profile

poopiekat

3671 posts in 2421 days


#25 posted 06-30-2010 04:47 AM

Stevinmarin and others…
I really don’t wish to bring up the dead here, but there are a few additional insights here about stealing, or scraping as the case may be, by webmasters trying to fill in their site with ill-gotten text. Visit this discussion: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/15915#reply-164712
I am disheartened, through my naive state in days past, of such underhanded activity. How do we protect ourselves?

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View kosta's profile

kosta

946 posts in 2041 days


#26 posted 06-30-2010 06:23 AM

I found the channel but this is the kind of stuff we have to deal with theres a ton of spammers

-- kosta Virginia Beach, VA http://www.kostasworkshop.blogspot.com/

View tbone's profile

tbone

256 posts in 2371 days


#27 posted 06-30-2010 07:57 PM

http://www.craftsmanplans.com/ is a top quality source for—well—craftsman plans.
His books are excellent sources for historical accuracy and construction techniques.

http://www.americanfurnituredsgn.com/ is another trusted source for furniture plans of all types.

-- Kinky Friedman on gay marriage: "They should have the right to be just as miserable as the rest of us."

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3859 posts in 2349 days


#28 posted 06-30-2010 08:06 PM

For jigs, fixtures, etc. I would include Steve Maskery’s http://www.workshopessentials.com/

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3859 posts in 2349 days


#29 posted 06-30-2010 08:09 PM

Charles Neil is probably too modest to list his own site, so I’ll suggest: http://charlesneilwoodworking.com/

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Stevinmarin's profile

Stevinmarin

837 posts in 1762 days


#30 posted 07-01-2010 04:40 AM

@tbone, TheDane Thanks. The list is growing.

Look for a video and rather lengthy blog entry Friday or Saturday.

-- Entertainment for mere mortal woodworkers. http://www.WoodworkingForMereMortals.com

View BritBoxmaker's profile

BritBoxmaker

4400 posts in 1723 days


#31 posted 07-01-2010 03:34 PM

Steve, the only thing I can think of is the poison pill approach. Watermark all photo’s with ‘Available free at www.lumberjocks.com’. It will be very difficult to remove these. Mention the issue of things being free in videos. Slip it into text etc. and let the scrapers do our work for us by rebroadcasting the message. The harder they have to work at ‘tidying up’ things the less likely they are to use our material. As always if you build a lock someone will break it so you can only ever hope to be one step ahead. You will never stop them. Every generation has its own shitheads.

-- Martyn -- Boxologist, Pattern Juggler and Candyman of the visually challenging. http://www.theartofboxes.com

View Brad_Nailor's profile

Brad_Nailor

2531 posts in 2644 days


#32 posted 07-01-2010 07:36 PM

http://www.betterbarns.com/ This is a great site to purchase plans to build a wide array of beautiful lawn buildings, sheds and barns. They also sell period hardware and other pre made accessories to build from their plans.

-- http://www.facebook.com/pages/DSO-Designs/297237806954248

View ZeroThreeQuarter's profile

ZeroThreeQuarter

120 posts in 1744 days


#33 posted 07-02-2010 11:42 PM

seeing as I’ve check out the site a few times (after searching for it for a few days)
http://woodworkersedge.com/ is worth noting as well.. surprised it hadn’t been mentioned yet..

-- Your mind, much like a parachute, works best when open.

View Stevinmarin's profile

Stevinmarin

837 posts in 1762 days


#34 posted 07-03-2010 06:05 AM

Okay everybody. Here's the video I've posted!

An article to accompany it is here.

And thanks everyone for your help in assembling a list of reputable plan sellers.

It’s pretty funny: as soon as I posted the video to YouTube, right next to the video appered an ugly ad for a DVD containing 16,000 plans! Hahaha!

Thanks again for all your help!

Steve

-- Entertainment for mere mortal woodworkers. http://www.WoodworkingForMereMortals.com

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1128 posts in 2557 days


#35 posted 07-03-2010 01:22 PM

Thank You Steve, we will get the links out , Excellent Job

View thewoodwhisperer's profile

thewoodwhisperer

601 posts in 2870 days


#36 posted 07-03-2010 05:29 PM

Ironically, I just received an email from one of these guys looking to advertise on my site. So I just sent them a very simple reply: a link to this thread. :)

-- For free video tutorials and other cool woodworking stuff, check out http://www.TheWoodWhisperer.com

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