LumberJocks

All Replies on POWER SOURCE FOR NEW TABLE SAW

  • Advertise with us
View Rolle2259's profile

POWER SOURCE FOR NEW TABLE SAW

by Rolle2259
posted 08-13-2017 10:06 PM


44 replies so far

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

6325 posts in 2100 days


#1 posted 08-13-2017 10:42 PM

Can i run my 220v 15 amp equipment on a 220v 50 amp circuit without any problems?
- Rolle2259

Absolutely – no problem at all.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View jonah's profile

jonah

1569 posts in 3200 days


#2 posted 08-14-2017 03:42 AM

The biggest problem you’ll run into is the plug. The 50A receptacle won’t fit the plug on the Sawstop, so you’ll have to cut it off and put the proper plug on. Not a big deal.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

6325 posts in 2100 days


#3 posted 08-14-2017 03:43 AM

The 50A receptacle won’t fit the plug on the Sawstop, so you’ll have to cut it off and put the proper plug on.

Or just make a short pigtail/adapter.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View msinc's profile

msinc

253 posts in 405 days


#4 posted 08-14-2017 10:58 AM


Need advice on power amperage. Planning on purchasing new Sawstop 3 hp rated at 220v 15 amps. My shop is primarily wired with 220v 50 amp outlets for welders. Can i run my 220v 15 amp equipment on a 220v 50 amp circuit without any problems? I have been running a 220v 15amp air compressor on the 50amp circuit without any apparent issues. Just want to make surethis wold not harm the electricmotors

- Rolle2259

It will certainly run it and no, it wont hurt the motors. The issue is having 50 amps of power available to a machine that is rated for 15. No, it wont hurt it in a sense of “overdoing it” as the amperage suggest, and yes you might have to change the plug to get the machine and the outlet compatible….but, there is a reason they rate electrical devices with an “operational” figure. If the saw is 15 amp rated you should not deliver more than required. It may be confusing because while the saw, when operating properly will only draw what it needs all is well and it wouldn’t matter if you had it on a 200 amp circuit {in theory} it will still draw probably 9-10 on start up and 3-4 while running. Now, throw in a problem, like a short in the motor or switch and instead of tripping a breaker at 15 amps and stopping everything you still have 35 amps more before it trips…..what does all this mean? Well, you can start one heck of a fire and burn down the neighborhood with the extra amps now being delivered to the machine. You could also get shocked. You don’t want to get hit with 220 anyway, but 15 amps or less is better than 50 for sure. It could also mean the difference between jamming the saw and tripping the proper breaker with no damage {15 amp breaker trips} or jamming the saw and blowing it up, getting you shocked and starting a fire {not tripping at 45 amps because you have a 50 amp breaker}.
For safety sake you really should run the proper rated circuits, you are not going to do that anyway, it cost money, I get it. I would suggest that you at least install the proper rated breakers.

View chrisirving's profile

chrisirving

72 posts in 333 days


#5 posted 08-14-2017 12:06 PM


Need advice on power amperage. Planning on purchasing new Sawstop 3 hp rated at 220v 15 amps. My shop is primarily wired with 220v 50 amp outlets for welders. Can i run my 220v 15 amp equipment on a 220v 50 amp circuit without any problems? I have been running a 220v 15amp air compressor on the 50amp circuit without any apparent issues. Just want to make surethis wold not harm the electricmotors

- Rolle2259

It will certainly run it and no, it wont hurt the motors. The issue is having 50 amps of power available to a machine that is rated for 15. No, it wont hurt it in a sense of “overdoing it” as the amperage suggest, and yes you might have to change the plug to get the machine and the outlet compatible….but, there is a reason they rate electrical devices with an “operational” figure. If the saw is 15 amp rated you should not deliver more than required. It may be confusing because while the saw, when operating properly will only draw what it needs all is well and it wouldn t matter if you had it on a 200 amp circuit {in theory} it will still draw probably 9-10 on start up and 3-4 while running. Now, throw in a problem, like a short in the motor or switch and instead of tripping a breaker at 15 amps and stopping everything you still have 35 amps more before it trips…..what does all this mean? Well, you can start one heck of a fire and burn down the neighborhood with the extra amps now being delivered to the machine. You could also get shocked. You don t want to get hit with 220 anyway, but 15 amps or less is better than 50 for sure. It could also mean the difference between jamming the saw and tripping the proper breaker with no damage {15 amp breaker trips} or jamming the saw and blowing it up, getting you shocked and starting a fire {not tripping at 45 amps because you have a 50 amp breaker}.
For safety sake you really should run the proper rated circuits, you are not going to do that anyway, it cost money, I get it. I would suggest that you at least install the proper rated breakers.

- msinc


I’m an electrical contractor and msinc summed it up perfectly! It’s usually not that hard to do it the right way and you’ll never have problems and have to worry about what could go wrong

View Craftsman on the lake's profile

Craftsman on the lake

2737 posts in 3339 days


#6 posted 08-14-2017 12:07 PM

Really, you need to put in a new ganged 15 amp breaker with a 12 or 10 wire and the correct config plug. Anything much beyond 15 or 20 amps and it’s almost like not having a breaker for the device. The saw or wiring would have to heat up to 50 amps before tripping the breaker with the welding circuit.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

View msinc's profile

msinc

253 posts in 405 days


#7 posted 08-14-2017 04:31 PM


Need advice on power amperage. Planning on purchasing new Sawstop 3 hp rated at 220v 15 amps. My shop is primarily wired with 220v 50 amp outlets for welders. Can i run my 220v 15 amp equipment on a 220v 50 amp circuit without any problems? I have been running a 220v 15amp air compressor on the 50amp circuit without any apparent issues. Just want to make surethis wold not harm the electricmotors

- Rolle2259

It will certainly run it and no, it wont hurt the motors. The issue is having 50 amps of power available to a machine that is rated for 15. No, it wont hurt it in a sense of “overdoing it” as the amperage suggest, and yes you might have to change the plug to get the machine and the outlet compatible….but, there is a reason they rate electrical devices with an “operational” figure. If the saw is 15 amp rated you should not deliver more than required. It may be confusing because while the saw, when operating properly will only draw what it needs all is well and it wouldn t matter if you had it on a 200 amp circuit {in theory} it will still draw probably 9-10 on start up and 3-4 while running. Now, throw in a problem, like a short in the motor or switch and instead of tripping a breaker at 15 amps and stopping everything you still have 35 amps more before it trips…..what does all this mean? Well, you can start one heck of a fire and burn down the neighborhood with the extra amps now being delivered to the machine. You could also get shocked. You don t want to get hit with 220 anyway, but 15 amps or less is better than 50 for sure. It could also mean the difference between jamming the saw and tripping the proper breaker with no damage {15 amp breaker trips} or jamming the saw and blowing it up, getting you shocked and starting a fire {not tripping at 45 amps because you have a 50 amp breaker}.
For safety sake you really should run the proper rated circuits, you are not going to do that anyway, it cost money, I get it. I would suggest that you at least install the proper rated breakers.

- msinc

I m an electrical contractor and msinc summed it up perfectly! It s usually not that hard to do it the right way and you ll never have problems and have to worry about what could go wrong

- chrisirving

Thank you sir, it is very kind of you to say so.

View Fresch's profile

Fresch

120 posts in 1822 days


#8 posted 08-14-2017 05:07 PM

What wire do you have running to the 50a opening? 2 hots, 1 neutral, 1 ground? 2 hots and a bare ground? Is it in pipe?

View Rolle2259's profile

Rolle2259

2 posts in 188 days


#9 posted 08-14-2017 05:41 PM

Two Hots and a ground in a pipe. Not sure if the ground is bare or not.

Thank You

View William Shelley's profile

William Shelley

538 posts in 1371 days


#10 posted 08-14-2017 05:57 PM


Need advice on power amperage. Planning on purchasing new Sawstop 3 hp rated at 220v 15 amps. My shop is primarily wired with 220v 50 amp outlets for welders. Can i run my 220v 15 amp equipment on a 220v 50 amp circuit without any problems? I have been running a 220v 15amp air compressor on the 50amp circuit without any apparent issues. Just want to make surethis wold not harm the electricmotors

- Rolle2259

It will certainly run it and no, it wont hurt the motors. The issue is having 50 amps of power available to a machine that is rated for 15. No, it wont hurt it in a sense of “overdoing it” as the amperage suggest, and yes you might have to change the plug to get the machine and the outlet compatible….but, there is a reason they rate electrical devices with an “operational” figure. If the saw is 15 amp rated you should not deliver more than required. It may be confusing because while the saw, when operating properly will only draw what it needs all is well and it wouldn t matter if you had it on a 200 amp circuit {in theory} it will still draw probably 9-10 on start up and 3-4 while running. Now, throw in a problem, like a short in the motor or switch and instead of tripping a breaker at 15 amps and stopping everything you still have 35 amps more before it trips…..what does all this mean? Well, you can start one heck of a fire and burn down the neighborhood with the extra amps now being delivered to the machine. You could also get shocked. You don t want to get hit with 220 anyway, but 15 amps or less is better than 50 for sure. It could also mean the difference between jamming the saw and tripping the proper breaker with no damage {15 amp breaker trips} or jamming the saw and blowing it up, getting you shocked and starting a fire {not tripping at 45 amps because you have a 50 amp breaker}.
For safety sake you really should run the proper rated circuits, you are not going to do that anyway, it cost money, I get it. I would suggest that you at least install the proper rated breakers.

- msinc

I m an electrical contractor and msinc summed it up perfectly! It s usually not that hard to do it the right way and you ll never have problems and have to worry about what could go wrong

- chrisirving

With all due respect, this is hogwash. I’ll explain:

The circuit breaker protects the wire.

The Motor must be protected by either a thermal breaker integral to the motor, or an external starting relay with an overload heater coil.

Even a 2HP motor on a 15A or 20A circuit is not “protected” by the circuit. It’s possible for an unprotected motor to be in a minor or moderate overload state for an extended period, without tripping the circuit breaker in the load center panel. This won’t make the motor catch fire right away, but it can rapidly degrade the winding insulation = dead motor.

-- Woodworking from an engineer's perspective

View William Shelley's profile

William Shelley

538 posts in 1371 days


#11 posted 08-14-2017 05:59 PM

Also, 15A or 50A, if you get shocked at 240V, it will hurt. as long as the amperage is above a few milliamps, it can cause damage.

220v is not a real thing. Please stop parroting this number.

-- Woodworking from an engineer's perspective

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

4868 posts in 2395 days


#12 posted 08-14-2017 06:20 PM


With all due respect, this is hogwash. I ll explain:

The circuit breaker protects the wire.

The Motor must be protected by either a thermal breaker integral to the motor, or an external starting relay with an overload heater coil.

Even a 2HP motor on a 15A or 20A circuit is not “protected” by the circuit. It s possible for an unprotected motor to be in a minor or moderate overload state for an extended period, without tripping the circuit breaker in the load center panel. This won t make the motor catch fire right away, but it can rapidly degrade the winding insulation = dead motor.

- William Shelley

Yep, what Mr. Shelley said. You’d do well to make a pigtail that goes between the saw and outlet, and then have at it!

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

4981 posts in 1622 days


#13 posted 08-14-2017 06:24 PM


Need advice on power amperage. Planning on purchasing new Sawstop 3 hp rated at 220v 15 amps. My shop is primarily wired with 220v 50 amp outlets for welders. Can i run my 220v 15 amp equipment on a 220v 50 amp circuit without any problems? I have been running a 220v 15amp air compressor on the 50amp circuit without any apparent issues. Just want to make surethis wold not harm the electricmotors

- Rolle2259

It will certainly run it and no, it wont hurt the motors. The issue is having 50 amps of power available to a machine that is rated for 15. No, it wont hurt it in a sense of “overdoing it” as the amperage suggest, and yes you might have to change the plug to get the machine and the outlet compatible….but, there is a reason they rate electrical devices with an “operational” figure. If the saw is 15 amp rated you should not deliver more than required. It may be confusing because while the saw, when operating properly will only draw what it needs all is well and it wouldn t matter if you had it on a 200 amp circuit {in theory} it will still draw probably 9-10 on start up and 3-4 while running. Now, throw in a problem, like a short in the motor or switch and instead of tripping a breaker at 15 amps and stopping everything you still have 35 amps more before it trips…..what does all this mean? Well, you can start one heck of a fire and burn down the neighborhood with the extra amps now being delivered to the machine. You could also get shocked. You don t want to get hit with 220 anyway, but 15 amps or less is better than 50 for sure. It could also mean the difference between jamming the saw and tripping the proper breaker with no damage {15 amp breaker trips} or jamming the saw and blowing it up, getting you shocked and starting a fire {not tripping at 45 amps because you have a 50 amp breaker}.
For safety sake you really should run the proper rated circuits, you are not going to do that anyway, it cost money, I get it. I would suggest that you at least install the proper rated breakers.

- msinc

I m an electrical contractor and msinc summed it up perfectly! It s usually not that hard to do it the right way and you ll never have problems and have to worry about what could go wrong

- chrisirving

With all due respect, this is hogwash. I ll explain:

The circuit breaker protects the wire.

The Motor must be protected by either a thermal breaker integral to the motor, or an external starting relay with an overload heater coil.

Even a 2HP motor on a 15A or 20A circuit is not “protected” by the circuit. It s possible for an unprotected motor to be in a minor or moderate overload state for an extended period, without tripping the circuit breaker in the load center panel. This won t make the motor catch fire right away, but it can rapidly degrade the winding insulation = dead motor.

- William Shelley


This is correct, the other options are not necessary. I have an alarm clock in my house (along with a few other things) plugged into a 20A circuit while only pulling ~15 watts (or 0.125A) and I have exactly zero intention of finding a a breaker with a load rating adequate to protect my alarm clock as that is not what the breaker is there to protect.

View msinc's profile

msinc

253 posts in 405 days


#14 posted 08-14-2017 06:48 PM

With all due respect, this is hogwash. I ll explain:

The circuit breaker protects the wire.**

- William Shelley

With all due respect THIS Is hogwash…..the circuit breaker protects the ENTIRE circuit. Period end of story.

To the OP, you can follow some of this advice of you want to, but it is not the safe way to do this. I would suggest you at least contact a licensed electrician and get another opinion. What some of these people are telling you to do will certainly allow your machine to run and you may not ever have a problem with it. Any licensed good electrician will tell you that two things are important in regards to what you are trying to do…the first is safety, if it was okay to do this the way some of these guys are suggesting then why isn’t it okay to do it this way as per NEC {National Electrical Code}???? And second, anyone who has ever had an electrical fire or even just a fire for that matter and been involved with having insurance adjusters/investigators on the scene will tell you that the slightest little NEC code infraction they can find will kill the claim. This means the insurance company WILL NOT PAY.
Run a 15 amp machine on a 50 amp circuit breaker being fed by #6 wire IS NOT CORRECT as per NEC code. I have trouble believing these people are telling you in writing to go ahead with this. Do as you wish.
I will standby while these guys quote the NEC code or codes that says it not a problem to wire up a 15 amp rated device on a 50 amp circuit.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

6325 posts in 2100 days


#15 posted 08-14-2017 06:53 PM

With all due respect THIS Is hogwash…..the circuit breaker protects the ENTIRE circuit.

Yup, and the circuit ends at the outlet. If you were hard-wiring a machine, then that would be an entirely different story.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View TheFridge's profile (online now)

TheFridge

8834 posts in 1387 days


#16 posted 08-14-2017 07:16 PM

change the breaker to whatever it needs to be. Boom.

Cord and plug connections limit the breaker size. You can go up to 800% in most situations when hardwiring. Depends on startup.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View chrisirving's profile

chrisirving

72 posts in 333 days


#17 posted 08-14-2017 07:20 PM

Besides a National electric code violation I imagine having a 3 hp saw on a 50 a circuit would most likely void the warranty
Besides being an electrician for 35 years and teaching motor control classes what do I know about electrical questions ;)
As others have said, call an electrician and have him take a look at it
It would work just fine on a 50a breaker but that doesn’t make it right

View TheFridge's profile (online now)

TheFridge

8834 posts in 1387 days


#18 posted 08-14-2017 07:49 PM

Ehh. 430.52 says you can do almost anything less than this table 430.52.

430 part II- motor circuit conductors

Cord and plug connections limit you.

Usually go by this whether it’s a single or not.

If I’m reading wrong please correct me.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View msinc's profile

msinc

253 posts in 405 days


#19 posted 08-14-2017 08:13 PM

.......”The circuit ends at the outlet”.......

Well that solves everything!!!! Go ahead with it…...don’t even bother to worry about just where exactly all that power is being used….....this is getting to be better than the funny papers!!!! If the circuit ended at the outlet how would you ever have a closed one???? Good god ya”ll…...

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

6325 posts in 2100 days


#20 posted 08-14-2017 08:23 PM


.......”The circuit ends at the outlet”.......

Well that solves everything!!!! Go ahead with it…...don t even bother to worry about just where exactly all that power is being used….....this is getting to be better than the funny papers!!!! If the circuit ended at the outlet how would you ever have a closed one???? Good god ya”ll…...

- msinc

As already pointed out… the circuit breaker is designed to protect the wiring of the circuit up to and including the outlet. That is where it ends. There is no way to determine what will be plugged into the outlet, so that cannot be part of the equation, and the breaker is not designed to protect whatever gets plugged in. Otherwise, I should have a bunch of 1A circuits instead of 20A where I only have a single 60 watt lamp plugged in.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View msinc's profile

msinc

253 posts in 405 days


#21 posted 08-14-2017 09:19 PM


.......”The circuit ends at the outlet”.......

Well that solves everything!!!! Go ahead with it…...don t even bother to worry about just where exactly all that power is being used….....this is getting to be better than the funny papers!!!! If the circuit ended at the outlet how would you ever have a closed one???? Good god ya”ll…...

- msinc

As already pointed out… the circuit breaker is designed to protect the wiring of the circuit up to and including the outlet. That is where it ends. There is no way to determine what will be plugged into the outlet, so that cannot be part of the equation, and the breaker is not designed to protect whatever gets plugged in. Otherwise, I should have a bunch of 1A circuits instead of 20A where I only have a single 60 watt lamp plugged in.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

Urinate in an outlet and you will find out where a circuit ends….you know what buddy, you win!!! Now if you would kindly go burn yourself up…
Refusing to admit you are wrong is one thing and understandable…nobody likes it. But to continue to give bad advice and at the possible expense of someones safety is just unreal!!!!!! At this point, if the OP still believes some of you then he might just get what he deserves.

View ArtMann's profile

ArtMann

814 posts in 717 days


#22 posted 08-15-2017 12:13 AM

Pardon me for the long winded explanation but the issue is far more complex than is commonly believed. The information below was learned through many years of experience as an electrical engineer.

First of all, we need to understand the behavior of residential and commercial breakers. A breaker will not open at the instant the current goes above the rated current. They are designed this way in part to compensate for very high startup currents of some electrical devices. For example, a 20A rated compressor motor, which is already under a mechanical load, might draw 60A as it is coming up to speed. The behavior of a breaker is defined by the “trip curve” for the device. It gives you the trip time as a function of the percent current overload. You can easily obtain this curve for each brand and family of breakers on line from the manufacturer. As an example, a typical 20A breaker will sustain 40A for about a minute and 200A for a few seconds.

What does this say about the ability of a breaker to protect a human from electrocution? The average lethal current is estimated to be something like 0.01A or 0.03A. A 20A breaker will sustain 2000 times that amount of current indefinitely. Fortunately, a person will typically pull away more quickly than the time it takes to stop the heart. In this situation, a breaker will do nothing to protect a person if he touches a chassis, housing or enclosure of a machine that is shorted to 120 or 240 VAC. Of course the breaker will trip right away if the chassis, housing or enclosure is grounded. Proper grounding of all equipment is the real protection.

What about protection of machinery? Well, there are several different ways a piece of equipment may be destroyed electrically and each must be considered separately. The most likely scenario is stalling of a table saw or other cutting machine. In this case the current will rise to what is called the “locked rotor” current. This current is large but it is limited by the resistance in the windings. You might get 5 or 6 times the design current of the motor. A typical breaker might sustain this level of current for 5 or 6 seconds – long enough to burn the relatively small wire in the windings. Fortunately, almost all modern machinery has internal thermal overload protection.

Another possibility is that the wiring external to the motor has been damaged in some way to create a partial or complete short. In this case, the breaker may open up in due time and let you know you already have a problem. It won’t prevent you from having the problem.

Yet another possibility is that something goes wrong inside the motor housing. If it is a dead short, then the breaker will trip but, as above, the damage has already been done. It will only inform you that you already have a problem that needs repair. If there is a partial short so that the current is limited, then you might sustain further damage before the winding burns in two. Unfortunately, this limited current will delay the breaker substantially. Remember that a breaker will sustain twice the rated current for a minute or more. That is fast enough to protect the service wiring but not enough to prevent further damage in the motor.

Breakers are designed to protect the wiring they feed. You should not count on one to protect your health or your machinery.

View Gilley23's profile

Gilley23

488 posts in 283 days


#23 posted 08-15-2017 03:50 AM

The breaker protects the wiring and provides short circuit protection. Overload protection is within the equipment.

Just change the breaker to a 15amp and the receptacle to a 15 amp to match the plug already on the equipment. If you ever need that to be a 50a receptacle in the future than the wiring is already in place and ready to rock.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

4868 posts in 2395 days


#24 posted 08-15-2017 04:12 PM

To the OP: I have to think your head is aching with the debate going on…it’s not unusual for an electrical question to have an alarmist yell “the sky is falling”. But I hope some of the replies have helped…be sure to let us know what you did and how it worked out.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

1258 posts in 1125 days


#25 posted 08-15-2017 04:28 PM


Urinate in an outlet and you will find out where a circuit ends….you know what buddy, you win!!! Now if you would kindly go burn yourself up…
Refusing to admit you are wrong is one thing and understandable…nobody likes it. But to continue to give bad advice and at the possible expense of someones safety is just unreal!!!!!! At this point, if the OP still believes some of you then he might just get what he deserves.

- msinc

Way to ingratiate yourself to this community. Welcome to Lumberjocks…

View Fresch's profile

Fresch

120 posts in 1822 days


#26 posted 08-15-2017 05:10 PM

Add wire in pipe to make it a sub feed add small load center, brake out the power needed.

View skatefriday's profile

skatefriday

413 posts in 1384 days


#27 posted 08-15-2017 06:13 PM

When I ran 220v to the garage, my electrician, licensed, insured, and bonded, put in a 30A breaker and wire under the assumption that it was marginally more expensive than 15A and if I ever wanted to run two machines at once, I’d have the ability to do so.

He knew what I was going to run off it, referenced the Grizzly manual to be sure, and then did the work.

So I’m running a 15A machine off of a 30A circuit. My jointer is dual voltage wired for 220v running off the same 30A circuit. But if the whole, “don’t run machines off over-amp’d circuits” thing was gospel, who has a 7A circuit to run a dual voltage 1.5HP jointers off of? Why even make dual voltage 1.5HP machines if this was indeed a problem?

View TheFridge's profile (online now)

TheFridge

8834 posts in 1387 days


#28 posted 08-15-2017 06:42 PM

well 2 different voltage machines on the same circuit is a whole nother can of worms.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Gilley23's profile

Gilley23

488 posts in 283 days


#29 posted 08-15-2017 08:01 PM

In all seriousness, if you do as I referenced below you will have zero issues and no question as to wether what you have installed is safe.


The breaker protects the wiring and provides short circuit protection. Overload protection is within the equipment.

Just change the breaker to a 15amp and the receptacle to a 15 amp to match the plug already on the equipment. If you ever need that to be a 50a receptacle in the future than the wiring is already in place and ready to rock.

- Gilley23


View skatefriday's profile

skatefriday

413 posts in 1384 days


#30 posted 08-15-2017 08:29 PM



well 2 different voltage machines on the same circuit is a whole nother can of worms.

- TheFridge

It’s NOT two different voltage machines on the same circuit. The G1023 is a 3HP 220v machine pulling 15A max, the jointer is a 1.5HP machine wired for 220v pulling 7.5A max. Both are on the same 220v 30A circuit although I never run them simultaneously.

The point was that a 15A machine running on a 30A circuit is equivalent to a 7.5A machine running on a 15A circuit and we do the latter all the time. If this were so hazardous manufacturers would not be allowed to ship 1.5HP motors that can be wired for either 120v or 220v

P.S. I actually have about 112v at my outlets, no real 120v for me for those that are picky about 220v vs. 240v.

View jonah's profile

jonah

1569 posts in 3200 days


#31 posted 08-15-2017 09:31 PM

There’s nothing wrong with a machine that draws 15A running on a 50A circuit. The circuit breaker protects the wire, the receptacle, and against dead shorts. The thermal overload protection protects the motor. That’s how it should be.

The motor will only draw what it wants to draw. It’s not like plugging into a 50A circuit gives you 50A of current running into the machine. The motor is designed to draw 15A, and it will draw 15A no matter what size circuit you plug it into (excluding the higher current draw on startup, of course).

View WhyMe's profile

WhyMe

975 posts in 1462 days


#32 posted 08-15-2017 10:08 PM



It s NOT two different voltage machines on the same circuit. The G1023 is a 3HP 220v machine pulling 15A max, the jointer is a 1.5HP machine wired for 220v pulling 7.5A max. Both are on the same 220v 30A circuit although I never run them simultaneously.

- skatefriday

Just an FYI, it’s against International Building Code to have multiple receptacles on circuits greater than 20 amps. If the circuit is 30 amps then it is limited to serving one receptacle.

View skatefriday's profile

skatefriday

413 posts in 1384 days


#33 posted 08-15-2017 10:50 PM

Just an FYI, it s against International Building Code to have multiple receptacles on circuits greater than 20 amps. If the circuit is 30 amps then it is limited to serving one receptacle.

- WhyMe

In this case it is only one receptacle. I unplug the saw to run the jointer.

View runswithscissors's profile (online now)

runswithscissors

2635 posts in 1926 days


#34 posted 08-16-2017 04:01 AM

All the foofaraw about 120 vs. 110, or 240 v. 220, is pretty meaningless. Many of us of the geezer generation grew up with 110v. wired into our DNA, whether that was correct or not. Fact is, there is no steady, universal, constant voltage delivered to anybody’s outlets. What you get depends on distance from the transformer, load or demand on the grid, temperature, wiring size, and many other factors.

Others can do as they wish. Personally, I’m going to stop obsessing about it.

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

View BillaDIYer's profile

BillaDIYer

2 posts in 186 days


#35 posted 08-17-2017 12:22 AM

I haven’t had much experience with motors greater than 1 HP, but for 3 HP and greater, I’d suggest looking at the phase on the motor label. Is yours a single phase or 3-phase model? Three-phase wiring allows for lower current draw at the same voltage, but I don’t know what effect running a 3-phase motor on a 1-phase circuit would be. I’m just advising caution.

Bill

View REO's profile

REO

928 posts in 1975 days


#36 posted 08-17-2017 12:35 AM

HANG ON! I’m out of popcorn proceed…...
Couple questions bot being nasty….. I want to know

1 what about the 18 gage wire found in most light fixtures fed by 20 amp circuits?
2 Is it possible to properly land a # 6 wire on a 20 amp devise terminal?

View William Shelley's profile

William Shelley

538 posts in 1371 days


#37 posted 08-17-2017 01:06 AM


HANG ON! I m out of popcorn proceed…...
Couple questions bot being nasty….. I want to know

1 what about the 18 gage wire found in most light fixtures fed by 20 amp circuits?
2 Is it possible to properly land a # 6 wire on a 20 amp devise terminal?

- REO

To answer:
1. UL certifies the lighting fixture as a whole to operate correctly under normal circumstances. The manufacturer doesn’t need to use 12awg wire because the load is known. The fixture is a load device, not part of the building wiring. The fixture states maximum wattage of bulbs installed in it, and to exceed that is voiding it’s warranty and is also probably a violation of NEC.

This doesn’t work for a 20A breaker with a 20A receptacle fed by 14awg wire with only a small jobsite radio plugged into the receptacle, because there’s no reasonable expectation that the jobsite radio will be the only device ever plugged into the receptacle.

2. Probably not. I ran into this when I swapped out an electric range for a gas range. The gas range specified a dedicated circuit (to run the controls and convection fan). I had existing 6/3 w/g wire that went to the electric range. I had to use a large wire nut to go from the 6awg to 12awg. The reasons were twofold: the 6awg wire did not physically fit under the terminals of a 15A or 20A receptacle, and also the receptacle did not list 6awg wire as being acceptable.

-- Woodworking from an engineer's perspective

View TheFridge's profile (online now)

TheFridge

8834 posts in 1387 days


#38 posted 08-17-2017 01:07 AM

1- fixture wiring is another ballgame.

2- probably not. If that was the case you’d pigtail a #12 to it to land on the device.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Fresch's profile

Fresch

120 posts in 1822 days


#39 posted 08-17-2017 01:34 AM

Haha, just get an electrician; my neighbor had the trash man do some brain surgery, he no longer can walk but feels like he got a deal.

View TheFridge's profile (online now)

TheFridge

8834 posts in 1387 days


#40 posted 08-17-2017 01:38 AM

He talking to one :) among others

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View REO's profile

REO

928 posts in 1975 days


#41 posted 08-17-2017 02:47 AM

#1 So breakers or fuses are to protect the wire in the branch circuit and do not include the devise wiring because the devise has been rated by the manufacturer. Wouldn’t the saw with its cord fall under the same criteria?

#2 my understanding is that wire size for a current carrying conductor may not change from breaker to terminating outlet. Hence the word properly. Wouldn’t it be contrary to code to pig tail in the box to a different conductor size?

sawstop is rated and there is a thermal breaker for overload. It doesn’t look like it drops the contactor though. The picture in the flick looks like it auto resets. surprise! if you leave it on after it trips and the thermal auto resets.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

6325 posts in 2100 days


#42 posted 08-17-2017 02:59 AM

The thermal overload on a table saw will either need to be manually reset, or it will open the contactor in the starter – which will then require a manual restart to continue operations.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View TheFridge's profile (online now)

TheFridge

8834 posts in 1387 days


#43 posted 08-17-2017 03:51 AM


#1

#2 my understanding is that wire size for a current carrying conductor may not change from breaker to terminating outlet. Hence the word properly. Wouldn t it be contrary to code to pig tail in the box to a different conductor size?

- REO

#1- just a thought without further research. I don’t know where UL/CSA listing comes in but it factors in there somewhere I’d assume.

#2- I’ve never seen anything that said I couldn’t but it warrants further investigation. Hell I did it recently with an abandoned oven circuit so I didn’t have to run a circuit for a microwave.

Change= Can’t size up? I’d consider that one of the dumbest things written in a book to establish the bare minimum requirements. Change= Can’t size down? Understandable.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Fresch's profile

Fresch

120 posts in 1822 days


#44 posted 08-17-2017 03:07 PM

TheFridge, I know I’m one too. How is the op to know, when anyone can say anything. You know the code, it’s not a how to book; I still don’t re id my white wire per code in my house. Most don’t know the big flat prong is the neutral or on zip cord what the ribbed wire is or the outer shell of a lamp socket. If it were me I would pull in a subfeed, or just tap on two openings and call it a cord and plug disconnect if only 220, 230, 240, ;) two hots & bare. Hell I’d run 3phase 100a bussduct if I got it free and use it single phase. Know what I’m saying?

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com