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Just kind of ticked...

by live4ever
posted 04-18-2010 03:32 AM

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116 replies

116 replies so far

View JJohnston's profile


1622 posts in 3253 days

#1 posted 04-18-2010 03:52 AM

Wow. Definitely go back, or call, and talk to the owner. Every specialty store has one of those guys (gun stores, for example, are notorious for this). They act that way because they get away with it. Don’t let him. Make sure the owner knows who it was, and how he acted. Don’t accept any, “Oh, well, that’s just Fred.” Ask the owner why you should buy from him after the way you were treated; ask him what he’s going to do to get you back. And, maybe show him this thread.

-- "A man may conduct himself well in both adversity and good fortune, but if you want to test his character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

View JJohnston's profile


1622 posts in 3253 days

#2 posted 04-18-2010 03:57 AM

No difference. Be more of an asshole than he was. Assholes respect that.

-- "A man may conduct himself well in both adversity and good fortune, but if you want to test his character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

View juniorjock's profile


1930 posts in 3727 days

#3 posted 04-18-2010 04:00 AM

I doubt that was the owner…....... and if it was, he only owns the rights to the name. There’s always a “higher-up” to go to. I’d make a hell of a lot of noise over this. No reason for anyone to be like that.

View Wood_smith's profile


260 posts in 2987 days

#4 posted 04-18-2010 04:29 AM

See, it’s the plaid, that’s the problem… just kidding. I think you should call the store and get the owner’s name (hopefully, tom1, that wasn’t the owner who waited on live4ever). Then, I’d write the store a letter, and maybe cc it to your lawyer. Make sure the cc at the bottom of the letter shows the firm’s name (e.g., Mr. John Doe Doe, Smith and Assoc.).

Ask the owner what he is going to do to ensure you return as a wanted customer.

If you get no reply, you could always mention the store’s name to all your friends….

-- Lloyd Kerry; creator of the Kerry-All Pouch,

View CoolDavion's profile


434 posts in 3786 days

#5 posted 04-18-2010 04:52 AM

It is your money, if you are going to make that kind of investment, you might as well feel comfortable with where you are going to spend it.

I would try talking to the oner also.
If that fails

-- Do or do not, there is no try!

View cstrang's profile


1832 posts in 3130 days

#6 posted 04-18-2010 05:31 AM

I would defiantly contact the owner of this store. Did you happen to get the guys name? I work in a lumber/hardware store myself and I can say that unfortunately, people like you had your encounter with flow in and out of our staff as well, we would just like to see more of them flowing out than in. This can only be done if these people are brought to the attention of management. JJohnston mentioned to be more of an asshole than he was… Unfortunately, I have to admit that this tactic works most of the time. But before you go in, plan your attack, be very respectful to the owner and convey that your business can be brought elsewhere very easily, even if that means spending slightly more money at a competitor. The kind of customer service (or lack thereof) that you received is unacceptable. You may even get a better price on the saw. Basically try your best not to stoop to that salesmen’s level. On a personal note, if somebody comes into my store with a respectful attitude I will do everything in my power to make sure they have an enjoyable visit; I even see what I can do as far as prices go… though I do not personally have the power to do much in that category. In a nut shell, it’s the old “do on to others…” even if the salesmen was treating you improperly, it doesn’t mean it’s ok for you to treat others this way, even if that may return faster results. I am a firm believer that if you treat others with respect, they will do everything in their power to treat you with that same respect (most people that its) Best of luck and let us know what you do in the end of it all.

-- A hammer dangling from a wall will bang and sound like work when the wind blows the right way.

View GFYS's profile


711 posts in 3433 days

#7 posted 04-18-2010 05:35 AM

You could always buy your SS some place you do fit in. Fitting in sometimes takes effort on the fitters part.

View japanesewoodworker's profile


68 posts in 3014 days

#8 posted 04-18-2010 05:58 AM

I am “like” you…..I am not White, and I don’t wear plaid, ...YES I live in San Francisco too.

I can guess which Woodcraft Store you are talking about. This guy even said to me that my “ENGLISH” was pretty good for an “Oriental” . I responded, Orientals are only for RUGS.

I am also in the market for a Saw Stop PCS. I am NOT buying at Woodcraft.

BTW- I am Third Generation Japanese-American. My English should be good it came from the UNIVERSITY of CALIFORNIA !

View RobWoodCutter's profile


113 posts in 3192 days

#9 posted 04-18-2010 06:26 AM

Live4ever I can see where you would get frustrated, but I looked at your conversations and put myself in your shoes. If I had gone over to my local Woodcraft with the actual intent of buying/order a tool, I think my conversation would have been more like:

Me: Hi…I have been looking at the Sawstop PCS and ””I am ready to buy one today.”” Do you have one in stock?
Guy: Sometimes we do, sometimes we don’t. When they’re in stock they go pretty fast?
Me: Could check your stock now, and if you don’t have one here at the store, how soon can you get one?
(If they had one in stock, I would have then asked about delivery. If they didn’t I would have asked how long it would take for them to get one in or if they could have it dropped shipped directly from the manufacturer.)
And if the guy just walked away, I would have just went and got another salesperson and then I would have made a comment to the second salesperson about the first salesperson, blowing me off and walking away.

When he told you “sometimes we do, sometimes we don’t”, If you had followed up with “could you check if you have one in stock, I am ready to buy one”, I believe his reaction may have been more positive. But you moved on to “promo” blade issue.

Also when he said:
Guy: Why would you want a Sawstop blade – they’re not any good anyways. If I was getting a Sawstop I’d get a nice high-quality blade like a Forrest or Tenryu. (shaking head, muttering to himself, walks away)
Me: Yes it probably is a crappy blade, but it will do for now, beside I am sure Amazon has them for cheaper than you guys sale them for. (Even though he is right, I never use the blades that come with any of my tools. I picked up several Forrest blades when I got my PM2000. )

I guess I would have been a little more agressive in letting him know, I have cash and I am ready to buy it. I am not the type to spend an hour driving somewhere to buy something and get put off by one lousy salesperson.

I would presume that they see hundreds of folks coming in day in and day out asking about the SS and most folks that ask about them at the store never buys them on the spot. Whenever I go over to my local WC, there are always folks hanging out around the big power tools, but it is rare for someone to come in a buy one.

Maybe the guy was just burned out about folks spending a half hour yanking his ear about the big tools, when he would actually get very few sales of them. So he may have figured you were just the same.
I would go back over and find the store owner and let him know you are ready to buy one. While he is ringing up the sale, I would make mention that you almost took your business else. And when he asks why, TELL HIM!


-- Rob-Yorktown "Shop's still not done, Tools are bought, Wood is bought, need to find time to start a project.."

View Russ's profile


357 posts in 3039 days

#10 posted 04-18-2010 06:41 AM

Live4ever as suggested I woulld go to the owner. If the crappy attitude continues I would notify Woodcraft corporate as I understand these storea are franchises. They don’t need this kind of service issues tarnishing their image. Also you can vole with you’re feet and buy elsewhere.

-- Russ

View FordMike's profile


155 posts in 3433 days

#11 posted 04-18-2010 07:42 AM

I am white , wear plaid (when it’s cold), 6’ tall and extremely burly (290lbs) and live in the Bay Area. I have been in forestry/ construction my entire adult life, and I know there are only 3 Woodcraft stores in the Bay Area, Dublin, San Carlos and Santa Rosa. I’ve done lots of business with both San Carlos and Santa Rosa, and my best friend is a regular at the Dublin store. Sounds like you found someone having a bad day thats it. There is no great conspiracy against non-whites,or non-burly sensitive types bringing there wifes to the store, you just found someone having a bad day, go to any Walmart-K-mart,Home Depot, or any other store and you are just as likely to get the same treatment. Drive twenty minutes to another Woodcraft and try again and if you get the same treatment then your probably right, there’s something about you that pisses people off.

View redryder's profile


2393 posts in 3064 days

#12 posted 04-18-2010 08:42 AM

Ya, like FordMike said. Blow your nose, walk in like you got a pair and tell em what your interested in. If you don’t got a pair, then act like you do.

-- mike...............

View Peter Oxley's profile

Peter Oxley

1426 posts in 3836 days

#13 posted 04-18-2010 09:53 AM

Well, it sounds like I’m your stereotype of a woodworker … or close to it … and this happens to me, too.

Specialty stores always seem to have at least one guy … he’s a grumpy, opinionated coot who manages to insult almost everybody, but he’s forgotten more about the specialty than most of us will ever know, which makes him indespenible – well, the stuff he hasn’t forgotten makes him indespensible!

My Woodcraft has a guy like that, and somehow he is almost always is the guy who helps me. I tell him what I want, and instead of showing me where it is, he asks, “why?” ... he mumbles … he points across the store to the general area where I might find an item … he walks away the instant he finishes a sentence so I can’t ask a follow-up question … but if you can manage to pry some information out of him, it’s usually worth it.

So … all that to say that I wouldn’t take it personally. On the other hand, that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t contact the store owner – the owner would want to know that they missed a sale because of the treatment you received. And if this person was the owner, you should tell him that he missed the sale because of his behavior. Maybe he’ll treat the next guy a little better.

One more thought: I don’t think you should have to wave cash around to get decent treatment. If that is the the customer service philosophy of a business, I’d take my cash somewhere else.

-- -- --

View studie's profile


618 posts in 3109 days

#14 posted 04-18-2010 11:40 AM

When on a job close to a WC store I bought stuff weekly. They were all friendly but once I bought about $100 of router bits & other stuff and when I got home I saw a $600 bill that was on my debt card. The next day I went to cheerfully ask them to explain the bill. They said that I bought a $500 mini lathe. When I said I didn’t & also don’t even want one, the salesman that I dealt with said we will have to look into this. He could not figure out why it happened or that their inventory list showed the lathe was even in or out of the store. It was an error from a previous customers price check on that item that was not deleted just prior to my purchase & was some how added to my bill. Hey great then just credit my card & it’s all good. The guy then told me that they had all rights to charge me for it anyway and it was the good grace of the company that they would refund MY MONEY. I reminded him that I’m a hard working carpenter not a sales jerk I mean clerk and before he could call for MaMa i will slam his head into the cash register for treating a loyal customer in a undignified way as this when it was their fault & I had to take the time to go there to make it right. I jerked my arms & he went running to get the manager. I always treat everyone with respect, even when a simple mistake is made. Don’t care about race or anything like that. But when someone is disrespect-able when they should be helpful, that makes me MAD.

-- $tudie

View ND2ELK's profile


13495 posts in 3736 days

#15 posted 04-18-2010 12:25 PM

I agree with your wife, buy it some where else. Then go back to the store and tell the boss what had happened. Tell him you just wanted to let him know that you have been giving him a lot of free advertising. None of it good! You could also give him a picture of your new saw and write on it LOST SALE! Give him the lumberjock site so he can see what we think of service like this. You should not have to put up with crappy service and disrespect like this! I also would contact the Woodcrafts corporate office.

God Bless

-- Mc Bridge Cabinets, Iowa

View KayBee's profile


1083 posts in 3208 days

#16 posted 04-18-2010 12:38 PM

Well, if it’s any consolation, I used to get that all the time or worse. Women woodworkers just didn’t exist untill recently, according to many salesmen. Way too many times I’ve had the “what does your husband do” question when trying to buy something. Or told to bring my husband so he can pick out “his” tools. Been told to get a gift card so I don’t get him the wrong stuff. I’ve had salesman literally walk away from me in the middle of asking them a question. I still get the occasional condescing ‘honey’ attitude. It’s not as common as it used to be, thankfully. The local woodcraft store got so bad that I didn’t go there for more than a decade. It has a new owner and is much better. I told him why I hadn’t been there. He thanked me for the info and said tell him if I ever had any more attitude. You should let the owner know that he has a problem that’s costing him money. No business can afford to throw away a customer that can become a repeat customer.

-- Karen - a little bit of stupid goes a long way

View ND2ELK's profile


13495 posts in 3736 days

#17 posted 04-18-2010 12:41 PM

I agree with your wife, buy it some where else. Then go back to the store and tell the boss what had happened. Tell him you just wanted to let him know that you have been giving him a lot of free advertising. None of it good! You could also give him a picture of your new saw and write on it LOST SALE! Give him the lumberjock site so he can see what we think of service like this. You should not have to put up with crappy service and disrespect like this! I also would contact the Woodcrafts corporate office and SawStop.

You got me so fired up, I posted this twice! Don’t let this go! This is totally unexceptable!

God Bless

-- Mc Bridge Cabinets, Iowa

View dmoney's profile


191 posts in 3041 days

#18 posted 04-18-2010 03:39 PM

I would talk to the mgmt. A customer should not have to be aggressive in order to purchase anything. As a manager I would want to know how a customer came into the store wanting to make a purchase and was talked out of it.

I’d tell the manager you know it was just an error on their part and give them a chance to earn your business. I know I love it when a customer points out an error that our company has made in a nice polite way. I bend over backwards to give them all the freebies, etc. that I can because they are so rare. Usually they come in stomping and yelling, demanding compensation for this (exagerrating a bit)

-- Derek, Iowa

View bunkie's profile


412 posts in 3109 days

#19 posted 04-18-2010 03:55 PM

Many years ago I worked as salesperson/technical guru in a computer store. I was the go-to guy for tricky technical questions and problems. Nevertheless, I made it a point of pride to treat all customers as I would hope to be treated. I don’t care how much secret knowledge someone has, salespeople have a responsibility to treat all customers with respect.

-- Altruism is, ultimately, self-serving

View CoolDavion's profile


434 posts in 3786 days

#20 posted 04-18-2010 04:22 PM

I say don’t stoop to the level of the salesman and be rude, it may work for the immediate results, but as you think back on it you may find you don’t like yourself for doing it.

I also agree with the others that say you shouldn’t have to wave your money around to get good service.
The store/salesman should assume that anyone who walks into their store will be making a purchase.

dmoney is right that it is rare when people point out the good. Most people go with the attitude if a company does me right I’ll tell 1 or 2 others, do me wrong and I’ll tell 10 or more others how bad.

-- Do or do not, there is no try!

View poopiekat's profile


4349 posts in 3696 days

#21 posted 04-18-2010 04:28 PM

I’m with Kunc….Hmmm, let’s see..a retailer craps on a customer, and customer is advised to bend over backwards to help said retailer be a better merchant? That’s insanity! Buy Elsewhere! and don’t ever give them the consideration of some constructive criticism. They don’t deserve it.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View JJohnston's profile


1622 posts in 3253 days

#22 posted 04-18-2010 04:30 PM

I think if you go that route, it’s not constructive criticism you’re giving. It’s more like a “you blew it, jackass” poke in the eye, in which case you should give liberally.

-- "A man may conduct himself well in both adversity and good fortune, but if you want to test his character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

View KnotWright's profile


258 posts in 3450 days

#23 posted 04-18-2010 04:43 PM

Hmm what most all these post seem to say is its not “Woodcraft’s” fault in this matter.

I was taught by my family ( Grandfather, Father & Mother) the customer is always right. In this world of imports and Walmarts, customer service is KEY to staying in business. If this Woodcraft is “too busy” to deal with customers asking questions about saws or promos, this I most certainly would shop elsewhere.

I’m not going to bash WC, but if they want to stay in business they should really take this as a learning opportunity!

Not only would I call and ask to speak with the owner, but I’d ask the owner for his mailing address and write him a detailed letter outlining the service, or lack there of on the day you shopped there, then he would have a record of it. Too many customers never express the lack of service to a company in a constructive way, take the time to “TEACH” whenever possible.

Just my two cents…

-- James

View a1Jim's profile


117060 posts in 3539 days

#24 posted 04-18-2010 05:00 PM

I’m white and do wear plaid but still I’m boiling mad when I’m treated like that. You should tell the owner . I would like to know if I owned the store.

-- wood crafting & woodworking classes

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

4898 posts in 3922 days

#25 posted 04-18-2010 05:32 PM

That’s what ya get for wantin’ to buy a SawStop. It is your fault. Shame on you. Bad customer.


View Milo's profile


869 posts in 3281 days

#26 posted 04-18-2010 06:15 PM

I will never go back to the Rockler in Atlanta for this very reason. A-Hole clerk. Asked if they had a replacement blade for a dovetail saw. “No” and walked away. Should have been “No, but let me check on that for you”, or “No, I’m sorry that isn’t available”, or almost ANYTHING else. And I’m 90% sure the owner heard the conversation and did nothing about it.

As for the WC situation, I would buy the saw elsewhere, take a picture of you and the saw IN YOUR SHOP, take it up to the owner of the WC in question, make sure the jerk clerk is there, show the owner the picture and say “I came in here on (date) to buy this saw, but thanks to THAT CLERK OVER THERE I bought this $3K elsewhere. Sorry you missed the sale.” Then turn around and walk out. If you want to add an “And I won’t be back”, “I’ll be telling my friends”, and a “This story is on” that’d fine fine too.

Guess I’m still holding a grudge, eh?

-- Beer, Beer, Thank God for Beer. It's my way of keeping my mind fresh and clear...

View northwoodsman's profile


242 posts in 3708 days

#27 posted 04-18-2010 06:26 PM

I would write a letter to Woodcraft corporate and explain the situation. Don’t bash them, make sure you have cooled down first, then explain to them what happened. This individual that you encounted represents Woodcraft. Woodcraft, being a franchised company, would want to know this. They will take action to protect all of the indepenedent franchise owners in their network. It’s not fair that we all take our business elsewhere because of one bad apple in the basket. Give them a chance to remedy the situation. Don’t ask for any free merchandise or coupons, ask for an apology. Thank them for their time in the letter and tell them that you look forward to continuing your business relationship with them. By the way, I’m sure several Woodcraft employees, managers, owners and corporate personnel have, or will, read this thread.

P.O. Box 1686
Parkersburg, WV 26102-1686

A similar instance happened to me about 4 years ago when I was looking for a new vehicle. One Saturday afternoon when I had just finished working on a volunteer project for my church, I took my kids to a car dealership to look for a new vehicle. I hadn’t changed or showered and looked like a bum after working on a construction project all morning. I went to the car dealership and knew what I wanted. After walking around the parking lot for 20 minutes and watching the salesmen all standing inside watching me like a hawk, I finally went inside to ask for help. The first thing I was told was “the used car lot was next door”, followed by a “why don’t we start by checking your credit”, concluded by “we close in 90 minutes, come back on Monday”. So what did I do? Drove to another dealership 15 minutes away, found what I wanted, wrote out a check for the full amount, then drove my new truck back to the first dealership just in time before they closed to show them my purchase. Of course I asked to see the manager and explained to him my sitaution. You now crap had to hit the fan when I left.

-- NorthWoodsMan

View Viking's profile


880 posts in 3157 days

#28 posted 04-18-2010 11:33 PM

You should make your best deal on the SawStop saw elsewhere and include a copy of your receipt with a letter to Woodcraft so they know that their employee cost them a big sale.

In this economy Woodcraft stores cannot afford to treat any potential customer in this way. My local Woodcraft in Houston has a guy like this also. I have spent a lot of money there and get treated sometimes like I am bothering them when I come into the store. I get treated a whole lot better at Rockler.

Good luck in however this comes out.

-- Rick Gustafson - Lost Creek Ranch - Colorado County, Texas

View Praki's profile


199 posts in 3959 days

#29 posted 04-19-2010 02:06 AM

Wow! This seems to have resonated with a lot of people. I will chime in with my experience and hope Woodcraft/franchisee takes this seriously.

I too am non-white, skinny and a certified bay area geek. I used to go to Woodcraft a lot. My interactions with certain individuals in that store were less than satisfactory. One was rude and unhelpful even when I was buying stuff! The other made pretty crude jokes of whatever I said. After a half a dozen of these bad encounters, I decided to not visit them anymore. It’s really too bad that I cant just drive to this store which a few minutes from my home but order stuff online. I hope this is a wakeup call for them to treat customers as customers no matter what they might look like.

-- Praki, Aspiring Woodworker

View teenagewoodworker's profile


2727 posts in 3730 days

#30 posted 04-19-2010 03:04 AM

btw… saw stop blades are not bad at all… i actually like them

but yeah that is pretty bad. that happened at my local woodcraft as well. it was just one guy and then I talked to another and it was all fine. guess it just depends

View docholladay's profile


1287 posts in 3021 days

#31 posted 04-19-2010 03:50 AM

I would say that it is understandable why you would be ticked off. I would think that anyone would be. I am in sales and there is not excuse for that. However, I have to admit that the best of us have bad days. As many have suggested, you should probably have a conversation with the owner. He may even offer you a discount because of your experience. If it were me, I would do something like that rather than have you take your business somewhere else.

-- Hey, woodworking ain't brain surgery. Just do something and keep trying till you get it. Doc

View Dark_Lightning's profile


3141 posts in 3071 days

#32 posted 04-19-2010 05:06 AM

BS. You walk in the door, it doesn’t matter what you look like. If you weren’t acting obnoxiously, the salesman should be paying attention and helping you find and buy what you wanted. Big Orange lost my business over a defective door and crappy treatment by a member of the salesforce. I finally got a replacement door, but it took weeks. And I didn’t buy anything from them for many years. At the rate I buy home improvement and woodworking project materials, this amounts to about $30k by now. I only go to Big Orange now for certain things that I can’t find at Lowe’s. When I complained then, (asking for the president’s email) I got stonewalled. I spent many thousands at that store when I put an addition on my previous house- everything from concrete piers to roofing shingles. I put in a full bathroom. You mess with me, I tell people and business goes away, period.

Oh, and as far as being nice and trying to get information out of the cranky guy “who’s been there, done that”, that’s an even faster reason to leave. There is another person right behind him ready to replace him, with a better attitude. I have NO patience for that crap.

-- Random Orbital Nailer

View bigike's profile


4050 posts in 3250 days

#33 posted 04-19-2010 05:16 AM

see if they offer compensation to the sales person i doubt it with that attitude but if they do offer to get it through him then go to someone else. Or just don’t even deal with him anytime he comes to ya tell him your all set, dam i’m not good at this at all. I hate being so nice to a$$@oles even more ones you have to spend money with. GOOD LUCK! ;)

You never told me if you got the planes yet, they should have gotten there by now!

-- Ike, Big Daddies Woodshop,

View Moron's profile


5032 posts in 3855 days

#34 posted 04-19-2010 05:49 AM

engaging population, is at the worst of times….difficult

and engaging population at the best of times….........fleeting

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View David Craig's profile

David Craig

2137 posts in 3071 days

#35 posted 04-19-2010 02:57 PM

I wouldn’t describe what you experienced as a cultural thing but more of a “disgruntled sales associate who is not working on commission thing.” I don’t own a truck, so when I pick up plywood, I have the lumber department quarter it for me so it can fit in my car. Most do it without complaint, but I have had some let me know that I am keeping them from doing something important like stocking shelves. I usually just coolly remind them that if it weren’t for my purchases, they would be stocking shelves at Walmart or pushing that shopping cart on the street collecting cans. I pay the money, I am a good customer,I don’t kiss their bottoms, I don’t really expect them to kiss mine. All I ask is that the person make the sales interaction positive and leave it at that. Some people understand what the customer provides, some people are clueless and act like the customer is an irritant.

I would just chalk it up to a bad apple and either report it or purchase at another location. If the purchase is going to leave a bad taste in your mouth, change the circumstances so you can walk away happy with the product and the company in which you purchased.


-- There is little that is simple when it comes to making a simple box.

View PurpLev's profile


8534 posts in 3610 days

#36 posted 04-19-2010 03:17 PM

yeah…. I don’t really shop woodcraft for similar reasons – and I AM white and wear Plaid! (ok, I don’t really wear plaid…)

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View HokieMojo's profile


2104 posts in 3690 days

#37 posted 04-19-2010 03:27 PM

The one thing no one has mentioned is that I’m under the impression you will be better off with the better blade. That being said, if you can get a free blade, take it!

My woodcraft usually seems in a hurry to help someone else. I don’t know if it is my age appearance, whatever. It might just be that it seems like certain customers are regulars there and maybe members of the turning club or something. Some people walk in the door and get a personal greeting. I don’t think in my case it is favoritism. Maybe just familiarity with the other customers. Thankfully, I do know my stuff and what I’m looking for. Sometimes its just a matter of getting help to locate it. They have a terribly habit of moving sale items away from the other similar full price items.

View rance's profile


4255 posts in 3122 days

#38 posted 04-19-2010 03:53 PM


There’s no reason for that. Go up the chain. If the higher-ups don’t do something to pursuade/bribe you to come back and also address that person’s attitude, then spend your money elsewhere. I work as an instructor at WC and sometimes work on the floor. It’s not a PC thing, it’s just right to treat everyone with respect. Even if you go elsewhere, the higher-ups need to know what’s going on on their showroom floor.

-- Backer boards, stop blocks, build oversized, and never buy a hand plane--

View David "Lucky Dawg" Brown's profile

David "Lucky Dawg" Brown

440 posts in 2954 days

#39 posted 04-19-2010 04:02 PM

It shouldnt matter what you wear or look like or even gender for that matter!
A woodworker is a woodworker!
I beleive in karma! What goes around comes around!
He will get his!

-- dumpster diver delux

View Wintersedge's profile


83 posts in 2936 days

#40 posted 04-19-2010 04:18 PM

My mother-in-law taught me a new philosophy on life called closing the loop. No matter what you decide to do, go back or call the store, let them know what occured. I am not sure they can fix the situation, but at least they can address the issue which is with this one employee.

I feel safe in saying it is not Woodcraft. As you can see from the Panda my nickname is derived from that because I am black white and chinese. I am 6’1” and 170lbs driving a 2 door accord. I have had great service from WC in Indiana, Kentucky and Georgia and never wore plaid any time I have shopped there.

You should definitely shop with your money. If this store hires a jerk, the consequence is they lose sales and customers. If Japanesewooder shopped at the same store as you, then I would most certainly call them out on the carpet. Even if the guy is having a bad day, that does not excuse his attitude. If he is having a bad day, he should have stayed home. I am hugely biased towards good service.

-- Motivation alone is not enough. If you have an idiot and you motivate him, now you have a motivated idiot.

View juniorjock's profile


1930 posts in 3727 days

#41 posted 04-19-2010 04:19 PM

Like Russ said, talk to the owner (not the manager – the clerk and the manager may be good buddies). I don’t remember who, but one LJ’s post on this thread said that “the customer is always right”....... I agree with that – kind of. I learned early on that when you deal with the public as a company employee, the customer is “not” always right – BUT the customer should always get what they want.

View JimmyNate's profile


124 posts in 3312 days

#42 posted 04-19-2010 04:57 PM

Buy elsewhere and forget about them. They don’t deserve your business and it’s not your job to waste time fixing their business.

As far as ‘closing the loop’...(a policy I generally agree with)...the only information you need to send them will show up on their bottom line. In this case, all the feedback that etiquette requires is provided automatically.

BTW, their margins on a large tool like this are crap. The only reason they sell them is to get people into the store to buy the small, high margin items. Because of this, many managers will not care if you send a receipt from your purchase elsewhere. Don’t waste your time on them.

Also, SawStop has amazing customer service in my personal experience. Just find another source.

-- "We are what we repeatedly do; excellence then is not an act but a habit." ---Aristotle

View live4ever's profile


983 posts in 2972 days

#43 posted 04-19-2010 05:17 PM

Wow, I was not expecting this kind of response to my post. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to read and comment – there have been a lot of interesting responses even though the discussion headed in a slightly unintended direction.

First off, just to be clear, I did not post to complain about Woodcraft or the particular employee. Nor was I alleging any sort of racial “conspiracy” or anything like that. Was the service lacking? Definitely. Was he helpful? No. Could he have been friendlier or seemed to care or find the answers for me when I moved on to the Sawstop part of my visit? Yes, for sure.

Are there a million reasons why the guy could have been acting the way he was? Sure. I give him all the benefit of the doubt. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt unless they go too far, which I don’t feel that he did. He was a jerk, gave poor advice (SS blades are actually pretty decent, using a good blade like a WWII/Tenryu for all cuts would be dumb IMHO, and it’s certainly handy to have extra blades/brakes on hand if you’re getting a SS), and didn’t know much of anything about a flagship product in his store. As a rule, if a guy selling me something big doesn’t know at least as much as I do about it, doesn’t bother to find out the info I need, AND gives me a bit of attitude…well, you get the point. Does it warrant me contacting the owner? If I cared about their business, sure. But I don’t. It was my first time there.

The reason I posted was simply because I was feeling crappy afterwards and figured some LJs would understand…because this wasn’t the first time I felt this way at a woodworking store or lumber section of the BORG. It’s just generally how my interactions go at these places. As some have said, maybe it’s because I don’t demand respect (or need to grow a pair). On the other hand, I’m a very easy to please customer with generally very simple requests and regardless of whether I fit the mold of the “usual” customer, I ought to be treated like one. So when I posted, I was feeling like (to generalize) the woman at the computer store, the overweight guy at the sports store, the hardly wealthy guy at the Ferrari dealership, etc. Catch my drift? Not fitting in (me) and not feeling like I was welcome (him). This was amplified because I was planning on purchasing my Sawstop, which is a big deal to me because it signifies my long-term commitment to the hobby (not to mention the huge financial implication for my wife and I!). And I sort of imagined you get at least some attention/help when you’re planning on plunking down that much change.

That’s all. I don’t plan on making a big fuss out of it even if I should. It was my first interaction at that particular WC and it’s enough to keep me away. They probably get enough business from their “usuals.” Fortunately I have other options for purchasing my saw (Rockler here I come). All I know is I wasn’t going to beg that guy to sell me a saw when he seemed to want to have nothing to do with the sale.

-- Optimists are usually disappointed. Pessimists are either right or pleasantly surprised. I tend to be a disappointed pessimist.

View Will Mego's profile

Will Mego

307 posts in 3674 days

#44 posted 04-19-2010 05:28 PM

As some others have written, I have to echo Peter O’s comment. I am white, very burly, bearded, wear plaid at times, and pretty much EVERY worker at my local WC acts like that, every me as well as every other customer. It’s a specialist store thing. At my local Bass Pro Shop the guys in the fly-fishing dept. make the WC people look great. I feel bad for the owner/managers of these places with these backwards dysfunctional arrogant idiots drawing a paycheck to abuse people who clearly WANT to give them money.

However, I recall seeing a equally terrible customer at my WC come in, looking like Uncle Jesse off the old Dukes of Hazzard looking for a pull saw, and proceeded to get into a contest with the WC staff member (who sadly, I think IS a manager) to see who could be more unpleasant and loud while confining themselves to monosyllabic grunts. Afterward both walked away with the contented looks of the just.

I’ve also seen these guys treat each other even worse, so I imagine working there is a real treat….good thing there’s much better places to get lumber or tools in the area here. I’ll order from the website, or pop in to get something small, but I’d never get anything more than $10 at the store.

-- "That which has in itself the greatest use, possesses the greatest beauty." -

View poopiekat's profile


4349 posts in 3696 days

#45 posted 04-20-2010 12:13 AM

I feel the same way about tool sellers that I do with jewelers, used-car lots, other retailers, and restaurants.
To complain to them about crappy customer service after they’ve offended you is just plain wrong. After all, you are giving them an opportunity to be better merchants, which is the opposite of what you should do. My policy is to never let them know what a bunch of incompetent nit-wits they are. They deserve to go out of business. Survival of the fittest!!! Let the incompetently managed stores go down in flames, I say! Intelligent ownership, and intelligent management is its own reward. May they be the ones that thrive. Go out and look for THEM! Hoooaaah!

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View ShannonRogers's profile


540 posts in 3750 days

#46 posted 04-20-2010 08:28 PM

I sent a link to this post to some of my contacts at Woodcraft. I spend my days working in Internet marketing and this is exactly the kind of thing that social media can really help a company in gaining feedback from their customers. I will be curious to see if they act on this or at least respond.

-- The Hand Tool School is Open for Business! Check out my blog and podcast "The Renaissance Woodworker" at

View marshall's profile


2 posts in 2920 days

#47 posted 04-20-2010 08:34 PM

I ask that “live4ever” please contact me at so that we can discuss and try to resolve the poor shopping experience that you had at one of our stores. Thank you, Marshall

View Abbott's profile


2570 posts in 3265 days

#48 posted 04-20-2010 08:42 PM

Wow, that was quick!

-- Ohh mann...pancakes and boobies...I'll bet that's what Heaven is like! ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣

View DaddyZ's profile


2475 posts in 3002 days

#49 posted 04-20-2010 08:44 PM

Buy the sawstop elsewhere, I went into a store to buy an entertainment center when I was 20ish. I was looking at some of the 1000-1200 dollar centers, the salesman looked at my torn jeans 7 tried to sell my a $250 center, I inquired about the higer priced centers & was told we would have to check your credit.

I walked out after showing him my $1500 bucks in my pocket. sorry arse.

Oh by the way I am a white boy!! prejudice has nothing to do with Arses, everyone has one & they are all cracked!!!

-- Pat - Worker of Wood, Collector of Tools, Father of one

View JimNEB's profile


239 posts in 3030 days

#50 posted 04-20-2010 08:55 PM

I would just vote with my pocket book. Then let the store owner know that they lost a sale because of the way you were treated. I always liked the old Sears policy, “the customer is always right”

-- Jim, Nebraska

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