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View PG_Zac's profile

Take the LJ Integrity Pledge

by PG_Zac
posted 03-27-2010 08:44 PM


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122 replies

122 replies so far

View lew's profile

lew

10027 posts in 2407 days


#1 posted 03-27-2010 10:46 PM

Sounds good to me.

Lew

-- Lew- Time traveler. Purveyor of the Universe's finest custom rolling pins.

View Eagle1's profile

Eagle1

2066 posts in 1716 days


#2 posted 03-27-2010 10:49 PM

I second that..

-- Tim, Missouri ....Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what the heck happened

View hazbro's profile

hazbro

109 posts in 1642 days


#3 posted 03-27-2010 10:57 PM

sounds good to me. but the “inspired by another” is got a lot of gray area. like i saw a picture in fine woodworking and the technical detailed with it and applied it to something completely different. I would consider this original. and my kitchen cabinets I consider 100% original, even though they are standard 24” base with full overlay blah blah blah.

If I tried to duplicate a fellow LJ’ers work and gave it a twist of my own, I would consider this “inspired by”.

-- measure once, keep cuttin' til it fits

View Padre's profile

Padre

930 posts in 2141 days


#4 posted 03-27-2010 11:01 PM

I agree. Wholeheartedly.

-- Chip -----------http://www.penmanchip.com-----------------Micah 6:8

View cstrang's profile

cstrang

1769 posts in 1820 days


#5 posted 03-27-2010 11:06 PM

I will take that pledge with pride.

-- A hammer dangling from a wall will bang and sound like work when the wind blows the right way.

View sphere's profile

sphere

109 posts in 1683 days


#6 posted 03-27-2010 11:07 PM

I agree.

-- Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Wood Works

View patron's profile

patron

13034 posts in 1993 days


#7 posted 03-27-2010 11:14 PM

i’m in .

-- david - only thru kindness can this world be whole . If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure. Dan Quayle

View poopiekat's profile

poopiekat

3623 posts in 2386 days


#8 posted 03-27-2010 11:15 PM

“Why should I give you a sample of my DNA when I’m not accused of any crime?”

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View Brad_Nailor's profile

Brad_Nailor

2531 posts in 2609 days


#9 posted 03-27-2010 11:15 PM

Do I have to hold one hand up? Maybe right hand up left hand on a piece of 1/4 sawn white oak while you recite it?

-- http://www.facebook.com/pages/DSO-Designs/297237806954248

View ellen35's profile

ellen35

2568 posts in 2084 days


#10 posted 03-27-2010 11:30 PM

That is a most reasonable approach.
I agree with enthusiasm.
Ellen

-- "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." Voltaire

View Scott Bryan's profile

Scott Bryan

27251 posts in 2474 days


#11 posted 03-27-2010 11:37 PM

I agree as well.

-- Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful- Joshua Marine

View SouthpawCA's profile

SouthpawCA

254 posts in 1885 days


#12 posted 03-27-2010 11:42 PM

I agree

-- Don

View Jeison's profile

Jeison

947 posts in 1760 days


#13 posted 03-27-2010 11:56 PM

works for me,
im allergic to the drama that accompanies trying to screw other people over.

-- - Jei, Rockford IL - When in doubt, spray it with WD-40 and wrap it with duct tape. The details will attend to themselves.

View NBeener's profile

NBeener

4806 posts in 1826 days


#14 posted 03-27-2010 11:58 PM

I second that emotion.

[grew up in Motown…..]

-- -- Neil

View Dennis Fletcher's profile

Dennis Fletcher

455 posts in 1706 days


#15 posted 03-28-2010 12:11 AM

Sure, count me in

-- http://www.ahomespecialist.net, Making design and application one. †

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3770 posts in 2315 days


#16 posted 03-28-2010 12:23 AM

I’m good with this.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View mikedrums's profile

mikedrums

102 posts in 1688 days


#17 posted 03-28-2010 12:48 AM

Personally, I’m not into pledges. Actions speak louder than words and I’ll let mine speak for me.

As to “inspired by another,” I agree with hazbro that it’s a very grey area. In fact, I’d go so far as to say (as I did in that other thread) that none of us is original. We have a long, endless list of others’ work that has inspired us.

I don’t claim to have any original ideas and know enough to realize that even if I think it’s original to me, someone, somewhere else, thought of it, too.

Unless you’re straight up copying another person’s work, down to the design and details, I just don’t see the need for giving credit. I think it’s totally up the individual person to decide if they want to credit someone for an idea. If you want to say, “I made this because I was so inspired by so-and-so’s thingamajig. Thanks to so-and-so for giving me the idea,” that’s totally up to you.

Is that polite. Yes. Is it necessary, no. Someone recently credited me for the idea for his sacrificial fence clamps. You know, I thought it was nice, but I wouldn’t give it a second thought if he never said anything. 1, because I stole the idea from Rockler and 2, because who care… my ego’s intact enough to survive it. :-)

I certainly don’t think we should think less of someone for not giving credit for “inspiration.”

View Abbott's profile

Abbott

2570 posts in 1955 days


#18 posted 03-28-2010 12:56 AM

I sure don’t need a pledge to know these things and I think everyone pretty much follows this already. There is also a verse tugging at my memory..

Ecclesiastes 1:9

What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

(The verse is used courtesy of Qohelet son of David).

-- Ohh mann...pancakes and boobies...I'll bet that's what Heaven is like! ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣

View poopiekat's profile

poopiekat

3623 posts in 2386 days


#19 posted 03-28-2010 01:08 AM

There are 29,000+ projects exhibited in Lumberjocks.
Should we examine each one before posting a project of our own, lest we be accused of not giving credit where credit is due? It’s a slippery slope, and it starts with a pledge.
By the way, this whole ‘pledge’ concept has nothing whatsoever to do with some pirate stealing our project postings. And it certainly isn’t going to do anything to prevent piracy.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View GMman's profile

GMman

3902 posts in 2349 days


#20 posted 03-28-2010 01:10 AM

What is the big deal the ones he takes the name of the LJ is still posted so cedit to the LJ!

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5453 posts in 2027 days


#21 posted 03-28-2010 01:24 AM

Yep, yep, and yep…..

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View GMman's profile

GMman

3902 posts in 2349 days


#22 posted 03-28-2010 01:28 AM

Yep

View John Stegall's profile

John Stegall

405 posts in 2168 days


#23 posted 03-28-2010 01:32 AM

I agree.

-- jstegall

View UnionLabel's profile

UnionLabel

660 posts in 1852 days


#24 posted 03-28-2010 02:07 AM

In!

-- Methods are many,Principles are few.Methods change often,Principles never do.

View bobtom's profile

bobtom

14 posts in 1710 days


#25 posted 03-28-2010 02:10 AM

I’m in

-- Bob,Fort Worth Texas

View Brian024's profile

Brian024

358 posts in 2052 days


#26 posted 03-28-2010 02:35 AM

I agree

View rsmith71's profile

rsmith71

269 posts in 1694 days


#27 posted 03-28-2010 02:43 AM

I’m in. I know I’m inspired by what I see. I whole-heartedly admit to copying another’s idea. But anything I make is mine and different from that which inspired it. I doubt I could begin to remember where every idea came from that I wanted to try myself. But that’s not even in the same ballpark as copying a pic of someone else’s work and passing it off as your own on another site. That is theft IMHO.

-- Robert - Haven Wood Crafts

View Glen Simpson's profile

Glen Simpson

25 posts in 2238 days


#28 posted 03-28-2010 02:45 AM

I agree.

-- Glen Making sawdust in Alamo, CA

View Michael Murphy's profile

Michael Murphy

448 posts in 1657 days


#29 posted 03-28-2010 02:46 AM

A box is a box. You make it your way and it is your box design. Just because it has a top a bottom and 4 sides (or maybe three or seven) and some hinges, you don’t need to credit the guy who made the first box.
Just be honest. Besides, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, or so I have heard.

I’m in. I would not have it any other way.

-- Michael Murphy, Woodland, CA.

View widdle's profile

widdle

1423 posts in 1651 days


#30 posted 03-28-2010 03:08 AM

I totally agree..but am inspired on a daily basis by the craftsmanship and creativity on here..was always bothered when i was framing..when i would here homeowners say they just built a 10,000sq. ft. pad in malibu..and not ever mention all the different tradesman ,architects engineers..Drove me nuts..

View gjd's profile

gjd

18326 posts in 2304 days


#31 posted 03-28-2010 03:20 AM

My pledge is to my God and my Country. Both decry theft. That is good enough for me!

-- gjd Southcentral Wisconsin

View Bob42's profile

Bob42

454 posts in 2442 days


#32 posted 03-28-2010 03:27 AM

I am in also.

I thought that was how we were supposed to operate!!

-- Bob K. East Northport, NY

View dusty2's profile

dusty2

315 posts in 2081 days


#33 posted 03-28-2010 03:33 AM

My momma taught me integrity a long time ago and it has held all these many years. So I guess I’m in by default.

-- Making Sawdust Safely

View dbhost's profile

dbhost

5383 posts in 1884 days


#34 posted 03-28-2010 03:40 AM

Bureaucrat summed up what I wanted to say quite well.

-- My workshop blog can be found at http://daves-workshop.blogspot.com

View Branum's profile

Branum

54 posts in 1819 days


#35 posted 03-28-2010 03:52 AM

I’m in.

-- Branum

View BarbS's profile

BarbS

2434 posts in 2737 days


#36 posted 03-28-2010 03:56 AM

I’m in. This is a ‘given.’ Shouldn’t even be necessary.

-- http://barbsid.blogspot.com/

View littlecope's profile

littlecope

2907 posts in 2154 days


#37 posted 03-28-2010 04:31 AM

So pledged, I guess… but I don’t really see what the fuss is about…
I’m thinking of how long the list would be, if I gave credit to everyone involved in one of my Projects!! How about the guy who invented the Twist Drill or the Hammer?... Or the Shaker Woman credited with inventing the Table Saw?... or…?
How about giving some credit to the Creator, who made us creative in the first place and who created the Wood, for us to use in our creations?!
We learn from others our whole lives and pass on what we’ve learned to yet others… and so it goes…
If some Clown is out there claiming to have made our projects, there’s not much new there either. Liars and cheats have been around as long as I can remember… and are usually discovered, some later, some sooner…
I’d love to be a fly on the wall when the guy gets an order for one of our projects… and has to make it himself!! ;-)

-- Mike in Concord, NH---Unpleasant tasks are simply worthy challenges to improve skills.

View bigike's profile

bigike

4031 posts in 1940 days


#38 posted 03-28-2010 05:14 AM

yea i’m in, i hate copycaters that don’t give credit where credits due. Keep it 100.

-- Ike, Big Daddies Woodshop, http://www.icombadaniels@yahoo.com

View PawPawTex's profile

PawPawTex

53 posts in 1645 days


#39 posted 03-28-2010 05:22 AM

Yeppers. I’m in.

View DaleM's profile

DaleM

913 posts in 2036 days


#40 posted 03-28-2010 05:28 AM

I’m in and I agree with Bureaucrat.

-- Dale Manning, Carthage, NY

View FirehouseWoodworking's profile

FirehouseWoodworking

624 posts in 1925 days


#41 posted 03-28-2010 05:45 AM

So it be said; so it be done!

I am reminded of the Honor Code of my old, gray Alma Mater: ” A cadet will not lie, cheat, or steal, nor tolerate those who do.”

-- Dave; Lansing, Kansas

View Eli's profile

Eli

141 posts in 1658 days


#42 posted 03-28-2010 05:50 AM

Some people make their living off of their designs. The design and all the work that went into refining it is theirs. Sadly, there is nothing to protect a furniture designer from being ripped off. All one can do is ask that others act honorably and give credit. It’s easy to take this lightly, but imagine putting all of that work in to something, and then it shows up in the album of some well-meaning woodworker who forgot where he saw the picture and now blithely accepts compliments for his or her piece.

I think it is beneficial not only to other designers and makers, but to the community, if we take the time to reference our work. It not only gives credit, but it shares our methods and pathways, which are far more important than our products. Give a man a desk? Or teach him how to make it?

Eli

View PG_Zac's profile

PG_Zac

366 posts in 2040 days


#43 posted 03-28-2010 10:09 AM

When I posted this, I fully expected the majority of LJ’s to agree. From my time on this site I have come to see that LJ’s are (generally) respectful, honest, decent folk.

In hindsight, I agree with the many that have stated that being inspired by by others should not need acknowledgement as we are all inspired by some (or many) of the projects we see here, or out in the real world. I think that the “Inspired by” label should be applied when someone makes a close reproduction, like the “Andy” box, or the “Maloof” chair. Other than close copies, I agree that it would be crazy to try to list all the sources of inspiration.

It is good to be a part of this virtual community of caring, respectful, like minded folk.

Thank you all.

-- I may be schizophrenic, but at least I have each other.

View azwoodman's profile

azwoodman

132 posts in 2033 days


#44 posted 03-28-2010 11:16 AM

Agreed! People with integrity are becoming more scarce since dishonesty is so easy to fall into these days. I think it’s extremely important to be honest in everything we do. That way you only have to remember one version of the story you’ve told, THE TRUTH!

-- Spencer, Gilbert Az (http://www.azwoodshop.com)

View buffalo689's profile

buffalo689

170 posts in 1659 days


#45 posted 03-28-2010 03:04 PM

ABSOLUTELY …

-- bill

View miles125's profile

miles125

2179 posts in 2657 days


#46 posted 03-28-2010 03:30 PM

I assume honesty as the default position of all LJ’ers. Easier to count the dishonest by their show of hands.

-- "The way to make a small fortune in woodworking- start with a large one"

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

15695 posts in 2870 days


#47 posted 03-28-2010 03:37 PM

Amen.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View woodsmithshop's profile

woodsmithshop

1144 posts in 2197 days


#48 posted 03-28-2010 03:52 PM

I agree as far as not claiming someone else’s’ work as our own, but if, for instance, I make a cutting board, the list of LJs to whom I should credit for inspiration would be endless, the same with boxes, and many other things, without trying to complicate things, I think just plain simple HONESTY is the best policy.
just my two cents worth.
I apologize if I have repeated what someone else has said in this post, I did not read all of them, as much as I would like to, I don’t have the time, and there are so many.

-- Smitty!!!

View Mary Anne's profile

Mary Anne

1057 posts in 1860 days


#49 posted 03-28-2010 03:54 PM

Of course!
Integrity is becoming as rare as common sense.

View nmkidd's profile

nmkidd

758 posts in 1825 days


#50 posted 03-28-2010 04:04 PM

What they said…....ditto

-- Doug, New Mexico.......the only stupid question is one that is never asked!........don't fix it, if it ain't broke!

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